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Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.

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Comments

  • baggsbaggs
    edited December 2011

    Seagull totally agree. Dohhhhh please provide the calculations behind the 99%?

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  • igimcigimc
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : Can you, or anyone else, explain why so many professional players play here then, and never complain? You notice 99% of people who share your opinion are losing players?  Is that a co-incidence? They use the same rng for £2.50/£5 games as they do for 30p dyms, and everything else inbetween. 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    And also YOU have know way of knowing this
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : And also YOU have know way of knowing this
    Posted by igimc

    Good point ^^ I spose they cud be using more than 1 rng. 


    ----------------------------------

    Huge majority of "it's rigged" posts are from losers though, that's obvious. Even Chandler can count on 1 hand the no, of winning players that have posted saying it's rigged ;)

    You're not gonna get many guys who are 20k up over 10k games coming on claiming it's fixed are ya!  ;););)

    might b 98% then.

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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : Good point ^^ I spose they cud be using more than 1 rng.  ---------------------------------- Huge majority of "it's rigged" posts are from losers though, that's obvious. Even Chandler can count on 1 hand the no, of winning players that have posted saying it's rigged ;) You're not gonna get many guys who are 20k up over 10k games coming on claiming it's fixed are ya!  ;););) might b 98% then.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Please DO NOT post %ages that ya have abso no way of backing up with ANY evidence at all , after all thats usually ure quote , correct ?? ;))
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited December 2011
    It's an estimate.

    I could do a Team51 style experiment to find conclusive proof, I'll scope the next 100,000 people who post saying it's rigged, and feedback to you guys with a pie chart. 

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Out of interest, anyone saying I'm way off the mark .....

    What %age of "it's rigged" posters are losing players in your opinion? How far off am I with 99% ?
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  • bigal36903bigal36903
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : Good point ^^ I spose they cud be using more than 1 rng.  ---------------------------------- Huge majority of "it's rigged" posts are from losers though, that's obvious. Even Chandler can count on 1 hand the no, of winning players that have posted saying it's rigged ;) You're not gonna get many guys who are 20k up over 10k games coming on claiming it's fixed are ya!  ;););) might b 98% then.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    atleast half the ppl posting on this thread r winning players DOHHHHH. so that makes it 50%

    alot of ppl win but still think the rng is not right..

    i am a winning player but one of the biggest moaners..  alright i have not won 20k or 10k but this is my first year on sky ..
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  • DazlerDazler
    edited December 2011
    do you believe what the government tells you! or the papers! and the papers are owned by big dog murdock who coincedently owns sky, Banks make charges and give bonuses with your money but its not regulated. Do you believe fair play is in all sport where money is involved! how many times has sport been under the spot light for match fixing. So why would a big company like sky fix anything? i wonder!

    money is the route of all evil and where money is made greed follows and its the little guy that gets stung cos hes  kept being strung along in the hope that he will make big money and so keep playing. Thats why those that think it could be fixed will keep playing cos you allways hope that its not true and there always is a chance of winning big and giving up your day job. If you definately know its fixed you wouldnt play but its quite exceptable to be cautious and ask questions, theres never smoke without fire.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    It's an estimate. I could do a Team51 style experiment to find conclusive proof, I'll scope the next 100,000 people who post saying it's rigged, and feedback to you guys with a pie chart.  -------------------------------------------------------------- Out of interest, anyone saying I'm way off the mark ..... What %age of "it's rigged" posters are losing players in your opinion? How far off am I with 99% ?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    IF i was pushed to hazard a guess ?? i would prob estimate 7-8/10 , so 70-80%

    Ofc i may be well off the mark also , cos at end of day i have no facts/stats to base this on ;))
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  • DazlerDazler
    edited December 2011
    and the amount of poker players who say its not rigged but wont touch the vegas section of this site cos they say thats fixed makes me laugh cos if one is fixed then surly they all are?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited December 2011
    lol @ comparing poker to Sky Vegas, of which many of the games are "fixed odds" games by definition. 

    Do u really need sum1 to say the obv line again "poker is a skill game played against other players". Sky Vegas doesn't have any skill games, and you're competing directly against the house. I'm not a gambler so I dunno much about how the games work, but the house always wins, just like the bookie does, or it wudnt be there would it.

    Yawn @ having to xplain that again, so obvious.

    -------------------------------

    Debs even if your estimation of 70-80% is right, that's still a vast majority.

    I'm certain there is some correlation between peoples poker skill and their opinion of the RNG, but like with any fair experiment, there will be a few erroneous results.


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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    lol @ comparing poker to Sky Vegas, of which many of the games are "fixed odds" games by definition.  Do u really need sum1 to say the obv line again "poker is a skill game played against other players". Sky Vegas doesn't have any skill games, and you're competing directly against the house. I'm not a gambler so I dunno much about how the games work, but the house always wins, just like the bookie does, or it wudnt be there would it. Yawn @ having to xplain that again, so obvious. ------------------------------- Debs even if your estimation of 70-80% is right, that's still a vast majority. I'm certain there is some correlation between peoples poker skill and their opinion of the RNG, but like with any fair experiment, there will be a few erroneous results.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Its defo the vast majority , i would never suggest it wasnt.
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  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    lol @ comparing poker to Sky Vegas, of which many of the games are "fixed odds" games by definition.  Do u really need sum1 to say the obv line again "poker is a skill game played against other players". Sky Vegas doesn't have any skill games, and you're competing directly against the house. I'm not a gambler so I dunno much about how the games work, but the house always wins, just like the bookie does, or it wudnt be there would it. Yawn @ having to xplain that again, so obvious. ------------------------------- Debs even if your estimation of 70-80% is right, that's still a vast majority. I'm certain there is some correlation between peoples poker skill and their opinion of the RNG, but like with any fair experiment, there will be a few erroneous results.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Isn't that supposed to be the average %age of winning players regardless of whether they think it's rigged or not?
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  • baggsbaggs
    edited December 2011
    dohhhh the sample is meaningless without thousands of players posting isnt it? I would be absolutely amazed if the cards dealt are random.
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  • DazlerDazler
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    lol @ comparing poker to Sky Vegas, of which many of the games are "fixed odds" games by definition.  Do u really need sum1 to say the obv line again "poker is a skill game played against other players". Sky Vegas doesn't have any skill games, and you're competing directly against the house. I'm not a gambler so I dunno much about how the games work, but the house always wins, just like the bookie does, or it wudnt be there would it. Yawn @ having to xplain that again, so obvious. ------------------------------- Debs even if your estimation of 70-80% is right, that's still a vast majority. I'm certain there is some correlation between peoples poker skill and their opinion of the RNG, but like with any fair experiment, there will be a few erroneous results.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    some people consider black jack and also there are various versions of texas holdem against the house in the vegas area and that is based on skill for some players. And you say the house always wins dohh! really so you think its fixed then? online poker and that are digital and the odds should pan out through variance in the same way as poker if its legit, and in poker you need luck aswell as skill. So if thats fixed for the house to win so can poker be for various reasons with a dodgey RNG.
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  • NODEALNODEAL
    edited December 2011
    To be honest and not trying to insult but this is almost pointless as the only logical standpoint must be sceptical veiwpoint, Anything else is to put it mildly just stupid.

    conspiricies in life are a fact,  everyone should be a conspiricy theorist cos its the only open minded option.
    The dudes at the top have stolen a perfectly viable possition and turned it into something to ridicul.  Well im not falling for it and never will.

    Die hard conprisy theorist till the day I die.

    The book is open as far as im concered in relation to the rng and skypoker. Dono and no one thats posted on here knows either.
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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    It's an estimate. I could do a Team51 style experiment to find conclusive proof, I'll scope the next 100,000 people who post saying it's rigged, and feedback to you guys with a pie chart.  -------------------------------------------------------------- Out of interest, anyone saying I'm way off the mark ..... What %age of "it's rigged" posters are losing players in your opinion? How far off am I with 99% ?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    I well remember the thread started by Irishrover compaining about far too many action hands. That sentiment was supported by several other players who were and are accepted as winning players.
    FWIW Dohhhh, am I a winning player or a losing player? If you look at Sharkscope you would no doubt class me as a losing player and yet, since I put 20 quid into my account at the start of 2010 I have never topped up. I have played almost exclusively cash tables in that period, 93,000 hands and counting so far.
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  • pod1pod1
    edited December 2011
    what level do you playseagull? i play cash on here 6 days a week from nl 10 to nl50 and although you do post on here ive never played you. you must be at a higher level than i play.
    what i have never understood why people making money at sky complain about the rng. why not keep stum and milk it. my mtt results are ok, my sngs are awful but i do ok in cash. i know 90% of any of my losses are down to bad play, and probably a good % of my wins are luck. if it is slightly askew then so be it, its never directed towards individuals so if you get quads 4 x in an hr great if i get  done by runner runner 4x in an hr again so be it.  its never personal its just the way its set up.
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  • tapewormtapeworm
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : Another smug ****
    Posted by Seagull158
    LOL - what do i have to be smug about Seagull? I am a losing player.....as in i am down over a loooooong period of time. Trouble is i dont blame the rng i blame myself, for not being good enough. I SEE the mistakes I MAKE, not the overall riggedness of all of online poker. I spend my time trying to stop those mistakes, so i can get better at the game i love so much.

    you however spend all your time getting mad about the RNG and blaming your losses on everything else but you.

    I have not played online poker for 3 months, at that time you were complaining about sky poker being rigged. I come back 3 months later and you are still playing the same site that you are so sure is rigged. I will say it again. GET A GRIP

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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    what level do you playseagull? i play cash on here 6 days a week from nl 10 to nl50 and although you do post on here ive never played you. you must be at a higher level than i play. what i have never understood why people making money at sky complain about the rng. why not keep stum and milk it. my mtt results are ok, my sngs are awful but i do ok in cash. i know 90% of any of my losses are down to bad play, and probably a good % of my wins are luck. if it is slightly askew then so be it, its never directed towards individuals so if you get quads 4 x in an hr great if i get  done by runner runner 4x in an hr again so be it.  its never personal its just the way its set up.
    Posted by pod1
    Much lower levels not higher. I play 2p4p mostly with the occasional dabble at 4p8p and 5p10p. I only play for proper money live.
    My issue is that it's set up for far too many action cards and river miracles, in my view of course. I would do much better if it was genuinely random as per the live game, in my view again. 9 times out of 10, at least, when the miracle river arrives it is to help the other player beat me because I have put my money in ahead.
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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : LOL - what do i have to be smug about Seagull? I am a losing player.....as in i am down over a loooooong period of time. Trouble is i dont blame the rng i blame myself, for not being good enough. I SEE the mistakes I MAKE, not the overall riggedness of all of online poker. I spend my time trying to stop those mistakes, so i can get better at the game i love so much. you however spend all your time getting mad about the RNG and blaming your losses on everything else but you. I have not played online poker for 3 months, at that time you were complaining about sky poker being rigged. I come back 3 months later and you are still playing the same site that you are so sure is rigged. I will say it again. GET A GRIP
    Posted by tapeworm
    I manage to stay ahead, playing for pennies, so thats why I continue to play here. If it wasnt rigged for crazy turn and river outs I would be much much further ahead. I dont think the RNG is the problem. It is, supposedly, checked and certified for the regulator and i daresay it produces random sequences as it's supposed to. It's the manipulation of the cards after the RNG has done its work that is the problem. There are no tests done and there is no certification that the cards delivered to the players are in the sequence that they were generated by the RNG. If I was going to fix online poker and i knew that the only regulation is on the RNG itself i would write code to manipulate the card sequence during the hand after the RNG has done it's work.
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : Much lower levels not higher. I play 2p4p mostly with the occasional dabble at 4p8p and 5p10p. I only play for proper money live. My issue is that it's set up for far too many action cards and river miracles, in my view of course. I would do much better if it was genuinely random as per the live game, in my view again. 9 times out of 10, at least, when the miracle river arrives it is to help the other player beat me because I have put my money in ahead.
    Posted by Seagull158
     Hi seagull, Thing is, there are more people in the pot at low stakes online tables, live players are far less likely to be calling as often, online players are less worried about looking stupid, and it's much easier to press a button than it is to put cash over the line innit. This means that far more bad beats happen.

     Also, if there is mad bluffing going on, more players will call with marginal hands to try and catch them out, this certainly seems to happen more online.
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  • pod1pod1
    edited December 2011
    I THINK YOUR RIGHT NUTTER, IM FINDING LESS AND LESS OF THESE "ACTION" HANDS THE FURTHER I GO UP (oops caps lock on and im not rewritting that again). ranges as a whole become much much tighter so you dont get done akvj3. regarding live seagull i play mtts live every week and as a whole im finding the standard the same and beats to. yest in a £50 ds i raised from the button with jq (unopened) got flatted by bb flop 8 9 10, happy days i flat he rasies 3x pot i flat, turn 4 he does the same again ,i jam he calls with 88 , 10 on the river and i lose an 80k pot!
    as for cash live , the standard on line is far far higher. a competent nl 30 player can easy play 1/2 at a casino and be a winning player, they would just have to be disaplined.
    like i say though i dont disagree with you about the amount of "action" hands online i just think its a combination of playing more tables against players thet find it easy to just press a button reload and go again.
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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. :  Hi seagull, Thing is, there are more people in the pot at low stakes online tables, live players are far less likely to be calling as often, online players are less worried about looking stupid, and it's much easier to press a button than it is to put cash over the line innit. This means that far more bad beats happen.  Also, if there is mad bluffing going on, more players will call with marginal hands to try and catch them out, this certainly seems to happen more online.
    Posted by oynutter
    Even at 2p4p the vast majority of showdowns are 2 players only and the dog wins much more often than it should.
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : Even at 2p4p the vast majority of showdowns are 2 players only and the dog wins much more often than it should.
    Posted by Seagull158
     That's not really relevant to the point I was making Seagull, it's the amount of people that see the flop that make the difference. If more people see the flop, then more players will have a draw to see the turn, so more bad beats. If you look at the amount of players that bad beat you, how many of them should not have even called pre? Put more of your money in after the river, they will still call with top pair or two silly pairs, and you will know you're ahead. It's more of a grind, but pot control until showdown seems to pay much more at low stakes.
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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. :  That's not really relevant to the point I was making Seagull, it's the amount of people that see the flop that make the difference. If more people see the flop, then more players will have a draw to see the turn, so more bad beats. If you look at the amount of players that bad beat you, how many of them should not have even called pre?
    Posted by oynutter
    We could argue about this for ever. In my opinion the dog gets there far more frequently than it should and neither Sky nor the pathetic regulator publish any statistics to verify the randomness of the deals.
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : We could argue about this for ever. In my opinion the dog gets there far more frequently than it should and neither Sky nor the pathetic regulator publish any statistics to verify the randomness of the deals.
    Posted by Seagull158
     You can compile your own statistics to show this Seagull, write down every time your are over 70% favorite on the turn, but lose on the river---- 500 such hands will give you a reasonable idea.

     Putting your money in when you are over 86% favorite will give you a much better return in the long run
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  • pod1pod1
    edited December 2011
    FAO SEAGULL, YOU WILL LIKE THESE!
    Verbal_GymSmall blind £0.20£0.20£50.41
    GLifUloseBig blind £0.40£0.60£39.60
    istabraqdoSit out    
     Your hole cards
    • 10
    • A
    		   
    pod1Raise £1.20£1.80£43.55
    SHANKS474Raise £3.60£5.40£31.20
    FlashFlushFold    
    Verbal_GymFold    
    GLifUloseFold    
    pod1Call £2.40£7.80£41.15
    Flop
      
    • J
    • A
    • 8
    		   
    pod1Check    
    SHANKS474Bet £3.90£11.70£27.30
    pod1Call £3.90£15.60£37.25
    Turn
      
    • K
    		   
    pod1Check    
    SHANKS474Bet £11.70£27.30£15.60
    pod1Call £11.70£39.00£25.55
    River
      
    • 8
    		   
    pod1Check    
    SHANKS474All-in £15.60£54.60£0.00
    pod1Call £15.60£70.20£9.95
    pod1Show
    • 10
    • A
    		   
    SHANKS474Show
    • 7
    • 8
    		   
    SHANKS474WinThree 8s£68.40 £68.40
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  • pod1pod1
    edited December 2011
    2 MINS LATER (STILL STEWING OVER LAST HAND. KNEW I HAD READ HIM RIGHT AND WAS STILL SPITTING FEATHERS HENCE NOT RELOADED YET)
    pod1Small blind £0.20£0.20£9.90
    FlashFlushBig blind £0.40£0.60£36.40
     Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		   
    Verbal_GymFold    
    GLifUloseFold    
    istabraqdoFold    
    pod1Raise £1.00£1.60£8.90
    FlashFlushCall £0.80£2.40£35.60
    Flop
      
    • J
    • 4
    • 5
    		   
    pod1Bet £1.20£3.60£7.70
    FlashFlushRaise £9.20£12.80£26.40
    pod1All-in £7.70£20.50£0.00
    FlashFlushUnmatched bet £0.30£20.20£26.70
    pod1Show
    • K
    • K
    		   
    FlashFlushShow
    • 5
    • A
    		   
    Turn
      
    • 3
    		   
    River
      
    • A
    		   
    FlashFlushWinTwo Pairs, Aces and 5s£19.19 £45.89
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  • tapewormtapeworm
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed.:
    In Response to Re: Logic to explain to those who say this site is fixed. : I manage to stay ahead, playing for pennies, so thats why I continue to play here. If it wasnt rigged for crazy turn and river outs I would be much much further ahead. I dont think the RNG is the problem. It is, supposedly, checked and certified for the regulator and i daresay it produces random sequences as it's supposed to. It's the manipulation of the cards after the RNG has done its work that is the problem. There are no tests done and there is no certification that the cards delivered to the players are in the sequence that they were generated by the RNG. If I was going to fix online poker and i knew that the only regulation is on the RNG itself i would write code to manipulate the card sequence during the hand after the RNG has done it's work.
    Posted by Seagull158
    so if you manage to ahead on here whilst its rigged, why not play another site that isnt - you would clean up. Maybe all of online poker is rigged (although quite why i have no idea), if that is the case why not just play live....??

    And also im sorry to break it to you......i dont think you are ahead, you just think you are, especially if it was rigged - that would mean you are SO skilled you can somehow beat players, the rake AND the rigged system....in which case you are a dwan in disguise
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