The only thing I can think is that Tikay means if you have tons of different levels, then rather than having say 100 people playing £5.50s (at any one time) so there's always a game going, it might end up being 10 people playing a certian level at anyone time which will annoy people cos it'll be harder to get a game going.
That's all i can think but yeah, I have no doubt Tikay knows what he's talking about, I'm just interested to hear the reasons behind it.
It's late, so bear with me please, I'll do this as briefly as I can, I need to get to bed. It's not complicated, & Lambert comes pretty close when he said.....
".....The only thing I can think is that Tikay means if you have tons of different levels, then rather than having say 100 people playing £5.50s (at any one time) so there's always a game going, it might end up being 10 people playing a certian level at anyone time which will annoy people cos it'll be harder to get a game going......"
Liquidity is NOT how many players are on the Site - liquidity is specific to the Level of Cash, Tourney buy-in/type, or DYM buy-in.
If Sky Poker accept every suggestion/request for different entry level DYM's, the total amount of people playing them would not necessarily increase by much, if any. But the available player-count for each buy-in Level would be much less. In other words, less liquidity. Less liquidity = less action, & a Lobby which becomes more & more cluttered.
Earlier, Lambert Posted this......
".....Surely if 20 players stop playing £5.50s and 20 players stop playing £11 games, they haven't disappeared, them players are playing £7.50s (or whatever the level would be) so you've still got them 40 player....."
So now, instead of 20 players @ £5.50, & 20 players @ £11, we only have 13 players at the 3 Levels, down from 20 at 2 Levels. Same number of players, yes. Same liquidity, no.
Now take that to it's extreme.......
Lots of players in the Thread are suggesting new, & different, buy-in Levels, & are disappointed/annoyed that Sky Poker do not provide them.
So, Sky Poker introduce EVERY new Level suggested. Let's say, (this is an extreme example, to make the point) a DYM at every 50p Level between £5.50 & £11. (£5.50, £6.00, £6.50, £7 etc).
Now, those SAME 40 players will be spread not between TWO levels, (20 per Level) but between TWELVE Levels (3.5 per level).
So those 40 players are now spread over TWELVE different Levels, an average of, say, 3.5 per DYM. And now the liquidity has completely gone, because most of those games will never start, as there are insufficient players. Due to inadequate liquidity.
The same thing applies right across the site, at every type of game, format, & buy-in.
Liquidity is very important, especially in a young & growing site like Sky Poker, & it's critical that is is managed with great delicacy & care, so as to keep the right liquidity balance, relative to the size of player base.
Totally agree with the liquidity thing, but then it just seems odd that sky completely contradict and add deep stack tables AND action tables spreading the cash liquidity. Huh !
Totally agree with the liquidity thing, but then it just seems odd that sky completely contradict and add deep stack tables AND action tables spreading the cash liquidity. Huh ! Posted by 1267
....because the liquidity at the cash tables is much greater than the DYM's (by a HUGE factor), especially at the lower levels, & is more than adequate to manage additional products.
So not a contradiction, it's just, as I tried to explain, that liquidity is something that is delicate, & needs managing "just so".
maybe its cos im a donk with no brm but i play whatever is closest to starting!! ie id play a £11 with 5/6 rather than wait for a £5dym with 1/6, so what lambart/tikay are saying is right. rather being 5 in 1 lobby and 1 in another, there could be 3 lobbies of 2 players at each.. ie taking longer to fill up
think this only works during the day tho 9am - 6pm.... they fill up quickly in evening so do not think it would apply that much
In Response to Re: New DYM level? : Fair question. I'm not convinced that, if the £220's never run, the £165's would, but you may be right. Posted by Tikay10
Ok thanks Tikay. I thought my guess might be close but yeah I think you've given a very good explanation as to why there just isn't the player base on Sky (yet) to accomodate the number of levels that a small number of people would like to see.
Ok thanks Tikay. I thought my guess might be close but yeah I think you've given a very good explanation as to why there just isn't the player base on Sky (yet) to accomodate the number of levels that a small number of people would like to see. Posted by Lambert180
So, having read Tikay's explanation, "liquidity" would appear to be the amount of £takings secured from those players who are participating in games, as opposed to those in a queue where their buy-in isn't secured - until the first hand is dealt? From the operator's point of view, there must be an optimum number of levels and tables that, based on the number of players logged in, keeps the number of those waiting to a minimum. Fair enough, they are running a business.
Not convinced by the arguement that the more customer choice in the number of levels available will mean less liquidity/takings for Sky. Simple answer would be to trial the proposed level, and if there isn't sufficient demand for it over the trial period then remove it? Simples.
So, having read Tikay's explanation, "liquidity" would appear to be the amount of £takings secured from those players who are participating in games, as opposed to those in a queue where their buy-in isn't secured - until the first hand is dealt? From the operator's point of view, there must be an optimum number of levels and tables that, based on the number of players logged in, keeps the number of those waiting to a minimum. Fair enough, they are running a business. Not convinced by the arguement that the more customer choice in the number of levels available will mean less liquidity/takings for Sky. Simple answer would be to trial the proposed level, and if there isn't sufficient demand for it over the trial period then remove it? Simples. Posted by Goethe
I agree, they have brought in the £165 level mentioned earlier in this thread
Guys, It's late, so bear with me please, I'll do this as briefly as I can, I need to get to bed. It's not complicated, & Lambert comes pretty close when he said..... ".....The only thing I can think is that Tikay means if you have tons of different levels, then rather than having say 100 people playing £5.50s (at any one time) so there's always a game going, it might end up being 10 people playing a certian level at anyone time which will annoy people cos it'll be harder to get a game going......" Liquidity is NOT how many players are on the Site - liquidity is specific to the Level of Cash, Tourney buy-in/type, or DYM buy-in. If Sky Poker accept every suggestion/request for different entry level DYM's, the total amount of people playing them would not necessarily increase by much, if any. But the available player-count for each buy-in Level would be much less. In other words, less liquidity. Less liquidity = less action, & a Lobby which becomes more & more cluttered. Earlier, Lambert Posted this...... ".....Surely if 20 players stop playing £5.50s and 20 players stop playing £11 games, they haven't disappeared, them players are playing £7.50s (or whatever the level would be) so you've still got them 40 player....." So now, instead of 20 players @ £5.50, & 20 players @ £11, we only have 13 players at the 3 Levels, down from 20 at 2 Levels. Same number of players, yes. Same liquidity, no. Now take that to it's extreme....... Lots of players in the Thread are suggesting new, & different, buy-in Levels, & are disappointed/annoyed that Sky Poker do not provide them. So, Sky Poker introduce EVERY new Level suggested. Let's say, (this is an extreme example, to make the point) a DYM at every 50p Level between £5.50 & £11. (£5.50, £6.00, £6.50, £7 etc). Now, those SAME 40 players will be spread not between TWO levels, (20 per Level) but between TWELVE Levels (3.5 per level). So those 40 players are now spread over TWELVE different Levels, an average of, say, 3.5 per DYM. And now the liquidity has completely gone, because most of those games will never start, as there are insufficient players. Due to inadequate liquidity. The same thing applies right across the site, at every type of game, format, & buy-in. Liquidity is very important, especially in a young & growing site like Sky Poker, & it's critical that is is managed with great delicacy & care, so as to keep the right liquidity balance, relative to the size of player base. I hope that all makes sense. Night all. Posted by Tikay10
You can only tell if a new " product " will negatively affect the liquidity of a business by trialling it , otherwise you are making an assumption based on no existing evidence about that product. Whos to say a new level wouldnt attract more players and increase the liquidity ?
In Response to Re: New DYM level? : You can only tell if a new " product " will negatively affect the liquidity of a business by trialling it , otherwise you are making an assumption based on no existing evidence about that product. Whos to say a new level wouldnt attract more players and increase the liquidity ? Posted by hogan2089
Sorry but I don't agree, it's very do-able that you can make assumptions based on the player base of certain formats (evidence).
As Tikay said in his example, imagine there's only 100 players playing DYMs, if there's only 1 level of them, there's constantly gonna be tons of games going and very little waiting time. If there was 100 levels of stakes there would be 1 player per level, so these players would be spread out much more thinly meaning either it's a nightmare to get a game going or 90% of the stakes never get played (hence why they won't add it).
Obviously Sky will have stats on how many people they have playing various different formats at various different times of the day, so I'd say it would be fairly easy to make 'assumptions' based on this.
In Response to Re: New DYM level? : Sorry but I don't agree, it's very do-able that you can make assumptions based on the player base of certain formats (evidence). As Tikay said in his example, imagine there's only 100 players playing DYMs, if there's only 1 level of them, there's constantly gonna be tons of games going and very little waiting time. If there was 100 levels of stakes there would be 1 player per level, so these players would be spread out much more thinly meaning either it's a nightmare to get a game going or 90% of the stakes never get played (hence why they won't add it). Obviously Sky will have stats on how many people they have playing various different formats at various different times of the day, so I'd say it would be fairly easy to make 'assumptions' based on this. Posted by Lambert180
Ummm yes its always easy to make assumptions , doesnt make them accurate though !
There is not a good volume of players asking for it. It would be impossible to trial everything that is suggested. Posted by SHANXTA
quite right, there isnt as of now , but IF there was a significant volume , then sky as a business would be remiss to completely dismiss the option of trialling it ...which is my point !
If there was 100 levels of stakes there would be 1 player per level, so these players would be spread out much more thinly meaning either it's a nightmare to get a game going or 90% of the stakes never get played Posted by Lambert180
This is one extreme, the other extreme; only having one level, would result in most players saying either "That is above my bankroll so I can't play" or "That stake is too low"
IMO you need a divider between the £5.50 and £11 levels as a double in stake is just too much for players trying to move up.
In Response to Re: New DYM level? : This is one extreme, the other extreme; only having one level, would result in most players saying either "That is above my bankroll so I can't play" or "That stake is too low" IMO you need a divider between the £5.50 and £11 levels as a double in stake is just too much for players trying to move up. Posted by Poker_Fail
Is £1 to £2 games not equally a double in stake? Smaller difference in money terms but if you're sticking to BRM and just thinking in terms of percentage of BR, it's the same jump.
In Response to Re: New DYM level? : Is £1 to £2 games not equally a double in stake? Smaller difference in money terms but if you're sticking to BRM and just thinking in terms of percentage of BR, it's the same jump. Posted by Lambert180
this
there are plenty of examples of this
in cash from 10nl to 20nl, 50nl to 100nl, 100nl to 200nl etc etc
in mtt's from £5 BH's to £10 BH's,
or should Sky introduce £7.50 BH's, and 15nl, 75nl and 150nl
Good points there from Shanxta and Lambert ! Surprised this thread is still going, TK has said he would submit for consideration and being as the £165 has already been added its pretty clear £8.25 or £7.70 are not going to happen.
I think they would have been a popular level, I'm not sure about the liquidity issue. From looking at the lobby there seems to be 3x more £5.50 than £11 running most of the time, I thought moving some of this liquidity up the stakes quicker would have been a good thing for all however, I dont really have any knowledge of the impact of this type of issue.
It really shouldn't have been an issue, staying the £5.50 level for an extra few weeks / month (hopefully) really isn't a bad thing.
Comments
That's all i can think but yeah, I have no doubt Tikay knows what he's talking about, I'm just interested to hear the reasons behind it.
Guys,
It's late, so bear with me please, I'll do this as briefly as I can, I need to get to bed. It's not complicated, & Lambert comes pretty close when he said.....
".....The only thing I can think is that Tikay means if you have tons of different levels, then rather than having say 100 people playing £5.50s (at any one time) so there's always a game going, it might end up being 10 people playing a certian level at anyone time which will annoy people cos it'll be harder to get a game going......"
Liquidity is NOT how many players are on the Site - liquidity is specific to the Level of Cash, Tourney buy-in/type, or DYM buy-in.
If Sky Poker accept every suggestion/request for different entry level DYM's, the total amount of people playing them would not necessarily increase by much, if any. But the available player-count for each buy-in Level would be much less. In other words, less liquidity. Less liquidity = less action, & a Lobby which becomes more & more cluttered.
Earlier, Lambert Posted this......
".....Surely if 20 players stop playing £5.50s and 20 players stop playing £11 games, they haven't disappeared, them players are playing £7.50s (or whatever the level would be) so you've still got them 40 player....."
So now, instead of 20 players @ £5.50, & 20 players @ £11, we only have 13 players at the 3 Levels, down from 20 at 2 Levels. Same number of players, yes. Same liquidity, no.
Now take that to it's extreme.......
Lots of players in the Thread are suggesting new, & different, buy-in Levels, & are disappointed/annoyed that Sky Poker do not provide them.
So, Sky Poker introduce EVERY new Level suggested. Let's say, (this is an extreme example, to make the point) a DYM at every 50p Level between £5.50 & £11. (£5.50, £6.00, £6.50, £7 etc).
Now, those SAME 40 players will be spread not between TWO levels, (20 per Level) but between TWELVE Levels (3.5 per level).
So those 40 players are now spread over TWELVE different Levels, an average of, say, 3.5 per DYM. And now the liquidity has completely gone, because most of those games will never start, as there are insufficient players. Due to inadequate liquidity.
The same thing applies right across the site, at every type of game, format, & buy-in.
Liquidity is very important, especially in a young & growing site like Sky Poker, & it's critical that is is managed with great delicacy & care, so as to keep the right liquidity balance, relative to the size of player base.
I hope that all makes sense.
Night all.
So not a contradiction, it's just, as I tried to explain, that liquidity is something that is delicate, & needs managing "just so".
think this only works during the day tho 9am - 6pm.... they fill up quickly in evening so do not think it would apply that much
Not convinced by the arguement that the more customer choice in the number of levels available will mean less liquidity/takings for Sky. Simple answer would be to trial the proposed level, and if there isn't sufficient demand for it over the trial period then remove it? Simples.
As Tikay said in his example, imagine there's only 100 players playing DYMs, if there's only 1 level of them, there's constantly gonna be tons of games going and very little waiting time. If there was 100 levels of stakes there would be 1 player per level, so these players would be spread out much more thinly meaning either it's a nightmare to get a game going or 90% of the stakes never get played (hence why they won't add it).
Obviously Sky will have stats on how many people they have playing various different formats at various different times of the day, so I'd say it would be fairly easy to make 'assumptions' based on this.
IMO you need a divider between the £5.50 and £11 levels as a double in stake is just too much for players trying to move up.