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DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul)

edited January 2012 in The Poker Clinic
ActionCardsAmountPotBalance
MAD_JOCK Small blind  10.00 10.00 1990.00
wrongjohn1 Big blind  20.00 30.00 1980.00
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • J
     
twistedole All-in  2000.00 2030.00 0.00
19577 Fold     
bandini Fold     
the-sock Fold     
MAD_JOCK Fold     
wrongjohn1 Fold     
twistedole Muck     
twistedole Win  50.00  50.00
twistedole Return  1980.00 0.00 2030.00
«1

Comments

  • edited January 2012
    Well?

    1st hand in dym!

    lol

    My conclusion was I could find better spots but, eh, well, I hate me. Time bar ran out as I cried.

    £10 dym too.

    I did cash. Thanks to villain getting it all-in with QQ vs AA and spiking, lol.

    Funny ol game as ol Greavsie did surely say.

    Would you have called?
  • edited January 2012
    No i'm definitely folding too in the first level unless I have any special reads.

    qq-aa, then ur in a world of pain. ak, kq, aq, its not really a spot where i wanna be racing so early.

    and is he really doing that with 1010 or lower, quite frankly i am not taking the chance
  • edited January 2012
    That's defo a nice easy fold :-)
  • edited January 2012
    Yeah not even a decision this early with JJ.
  • edited January 2012

    My first reaction is a fold... a really annoying fold, and its prob just correct.

    But, i think a call is prob ok too

    cop-out answer i know, but I know i would call this sometimes just to suck out on his badly played aces.

  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    Yeah not even a decision this early with JJ.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    ofc its a decision

    if you know the guy is tilting and does this with any two then its an easy call
  • edited January 2012
    Not sure how he's tilting in the first hand but guess it could be from different game, still snappity snap fold for me first hand of a DYM.
  • edited January 2012
  • edited January 2012
    Dont mind either tbh.

    If you rolled for lvl and are happy that this is going to be a flip most often i take it, pretty much guarenteeing cash.

    If your playing above your lvl I can understand waiting for a better spot.

  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    Dont mind either tbh. If you rolled for lvl and are happy that this is going to be a flip most often i take it, pretty much guarenteeing cash. If your playing above your lvl I can understand waiting for a better spot.
    Posted by AMYBR
    You need 55% minimum to break even, if you know it's a flip you have to fold, plus this early it's never guarenteed to cash trust me. 
  • edited January 2012
    I'd call.

    Put a rough range into stove and got 60% against it.

    Add in a couple of totally random hands, (at random), and it goes up to around 63%.

    Having his skope stats handy would help.

    -----------------------------------

    btw if anyone thinks that this shove by him is never AA/KK/QQ we go up to 68.5%. If that's your read/instincts then snappitoffffff.
  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : You need 55% minimum to break even, if you know it's a flip you have to fold, plus this early it's never guarenteed to cash trust me. 
    Posted by Dudeskin8

    As said if rolled then flipping isnt a huge issue.  If we perceive its a flip + can factor in potential steam/frustration shoves w smaller pp's it can be fine.  OP'ster never said he was a micro managed dym grinder that rigorously crunches the numbers.

    Obv winning the hand doesnt guarentee the cash, but it sets us in very good stead to do so....
  • edited January 2012

    We can call versus this range 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+  (12%)

     

    imo

     

    o skope is bad over 148 games though :()

  • edited January 2012
    Always play prperly for practice if nothing else and you must fold - as you would if it were a £1000 dym. The money should not matter.
  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    I'd call. Put a rough range into stove and got 60% against it. Add in a couple of totally random hands, (at random), and it goes up to around 63%. Having his skope stats handy would help. ----------------------------------- btw if anyone thinks that this shove by him is never AA/KK/QQ we go up to 68.5%. If that's your read/instincts then snappitoffffff.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    I'd personally want more than 60% this early, yes 60% is a good cash % longterm but even winning doesn't mean we cash 100% of the time in this DYM, and add in the fact I believe I have an edge in the game (why else would you play?) and we have another reason to not take a big risk this early.

    Also FWIW most of my advice stems from JC's blog where he mentions folding JJ/AK to a 4bet or 3bet infront of you, obviously that doesn't include an open shove 1st hand but I'd imagine it would fit into the same general area. 
  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : I'd personally want more than 60% this early, yes 60% is a good cash % longterm but even winning doesn't mean we cash 100% of the time in this DYM, and add in the fact I believe I have an edge in the game (why else would you play?) and we have another reason to not take a big risk this early. Also FWIW most of my advice stems from JC's blog where he mentions folding JJ/AK to a 4bet or 3bet infront of you, obviously that doesn't include an open shove 1st hand but I'd imagine it would fit into the same general area. 
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Really doesn't surprise me that you say FOLD )
    Open shoving 1st hand is just like WTF, imo I think it's the easiest call ever but hey ho
    If we can pick spots where we are 60% or /> than surely we should snap these

    anyhow when are you playing the £5 level Dude, I am trying it out at the moment - see how long it takes before I get bored - ran KK into AA twice now after a bright start - /avoid me please cause I am shoving ATC into you m8'ty )

  • edited January 2012
    Id want to get a feel for his hands at showdown so think i get rid looking for a better spot.

    Much rather shove than call it off as a rule.
  • edited January 2012
    1) I would quickly scope him

    2)After seeing he's a fish try and figure out whether he's an idiot who gamble-shoves weak hands, or has no idea about getting value with AA KK etc (There a quite a few players who'll just shove stong hands hoping for a call!)

    If they were a semi-regular player, I would SNAPPPP it off for very valuable info.

    They havn't logged many games though :/ I still probably call as a fish's range is bound to be wide
  • edited January 2012
    never ever calling here.  Snap folding qq aswell.
    Kings . welll .... then we have a decision.
  • edited January 2012
    Fold, without question, better spots will follow
  • edited January 2012
    I suck at DYM's but this is a fold in my opinion. Hate it, but its a fold. This is why i dont play DYM's.
  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : Really doesn't surprise me that you say FOLD ) Open shoving 1st hand is just like WTF, imo I think it's the easiest call ever but hey ho If we can pick spots where we are 60% or /> than surely we should snap these anyhow when are you playing the £5 level Dude, I am trying it out at the moment - see how long it takes before I get bored - ran KK into AA twice now after a bright start - /avoid me please cause I am shoving ATC into you m8'ty )
    Posted by rancid
    Have decided to grind the £3.30 level till I have 40 BI's for £5.50, using JC's 22 BI idea just wasn't working :(.

    As for this hand having seen SHANXTA's and 1267's answers I'm glad to see I was right :).
  • edited January 2012
  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : Have decided to grind the £3.30 level till I have 40 BI's for £5.50, using JC's 22 BI idea just wasn't working :(. As for this hand having seen SHANXTA's and 1267's answers I'm glad to see I was right :).
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    You just say fold to every single dym spot tho so you're bound to get a few right, law of averages :P

    Think calling is still a winning play also though assuming we got 60% eq.
  • edited January 2012
    Even against a player who does this with any two, I fold. I don't even want to be up against garbage like Q4o, I'll only win 70% of the time against Kx, Qx, so even when they don't get lucky against me, I still have to cash around 80% of the time thereafter, just to be break even.

    Also, I'd imagine that this'll be AA/KK played badly just as often as you're against junk, so snap fold.

    FWIW, AK, and QQ is also a snap fold IMO here, KK is marginal.
  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : You just say fold to every single dym spot tho so you're bound to get a few right, law of averages :P Think calling is still a winning play also though assuming we got 60% eq.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    LOL fare point but it's just all down to risk aversion. I admit of late though I have been making more brave calls espeically after Rancids little spurt of threads a few weeks back but in this particular hand there is just no decision like I previoulsy put.
  • edited January 2012
    emmm intresting

    If oppo shoving range is 12% or /> than ICM wiz is telling me to call if oppo's to act behind only call with KK/AA 4%

    My initial response was to snap call because open shovers like this are imo always weak ATC gamble numpties
    plus oppo has bad scope over 148 games -
    so JJ+ is a snap for me - but AK is a fold

    anyways
    folding can never be bad can it





  • edited January 2012
    I cant pretend that I'm a dym master but dont fully get the risk averse line.

    Someone here is saying they wont take the J's vs Q4 and other garbage.  Thats like saying you refuse to take K's vs AK.

    We are getting our chips in regardless, rarely better than 75/25 unless we are waiting for nut flops constantly, which just isnt happening.

    If playing huge volume of DYMs number crunching is going to be important.  But we are always going to be getting money in with risk.  Betting streets with tptk vs tpwk doesnt offer much better than 75/25 87/13 so why refuse that kind of flip pre. We can punish through streets with edge, but have to feel flipping pre is fine in those spots also

    I get the principle.  DYM is our least risk game.  But getting it in with favourable edge is plainly profitable over volume, eliminates player and puts us on solid ground to cash.

    Myeh JC and Shanxta know best :p
  • edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : Have decided to grind the £3.30 level till I have 40 BI's for £5.50, using JC's 22 BI idea just wasn't working :(. As for this hand having seen SHANXTA's and 1267's answers I'm glad to see I was right :).
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Ok, I am trying 20 bi's at £5.50 -
    Ok start, c how I go......................
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