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DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul)

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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    Why ent you in Orfordable ? :S

    EDIT : And stop restting SS lol
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  • rancidrancid
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    Why ent you in Orfordable ? :S EDIT : And stop restting SS lol
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    lol - easy to track my progress over short term )



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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : lol - easy to track my progress over short term )
    Posted by rancid
    Excel....
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  • rancidrancid
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : Excel....
    Posted by Dudeskin8

    Hijack! )

    Yes I use it, only track my MTT/SNG with scope and then enter into excel, this works out my cash profit and loss
    Then I can see per format where I am winning or losing money

    suits me sir )







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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    You worked out the hands in cash yet ?
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  • rancidrancid
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    You worked out the hands in cash yet ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    got my profit and loss plus win rate ss done (bb/100), the adding up number of hands sux on Sky but..............

    Guess I'll see where I am after 100,000 hands at NL10 :S

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  • SHANXTASHANXTA
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    I cant pretend that I'm a dym master but dont fully get the risk averse line. Someone here is saying they wont take the J's vs Q4 and other garbage.  Thats like saying you refuse to take K's vs AK. We are getting our chips in regardless, rarely better than 75/25 unless we are waiting for nut flops constantly, which just isnt happening. If playing huge volume of DYMs number crunching is going to be important.  But we are always going to be getting money in with risk.  Betting streets with tptk vs tpwk doesnt offer much better than 75/25 87/13 so why refuse that kind of flip pre. We can punish through streets with edge, but have to feel flipping pre is fine in those spots also I get the principle.  DYM is our least risk game.  But getting it in with favourable edge is plainly profitable over volume, eliminates player and puts us on solid ground to cash. Myeh JC and Shanxta know best :p
    Posted by AMYBR
    what equity do you think we have here then? do you really think it's as good as 75%?
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited January 2012
    hells no.

    That post was refering entirely to posters comments relating to not being willing to race J's vs Q4 and hands of that type.

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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    hells no. That post was refering entirely to posters comments relating to not being willing to race J's vs Q4 and hands of that type.
    Posted by AMYBR
    I actually wouldn't take a 70/30 in the first hand of a DYM if I knew I was only 70/30 to win the hand. I can find better spots later on to take down pots uncontested, or get my money in as a bigger favourite. 

    In a 70/30, I lose 30% of the time, obviously. So when I win the hand, I then have to cash about 78.5% of the time thereafter, or else I'm a losing player. Will I win 78.5% of the time after doubling up? 

    Another example of why I'd fold - At £3.30, I cash 2/3rds of the time. If I was playing in that game, would I want to take a 70/30 first hand in a game where I feel I have a massive edge and I'm expecting to win 67% of the time? 
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  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail
    edited January 2012
    BTW there are actually a good few reasons why this could be a good call LONG TERM, but it's a secret ;)
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  • SHANXTASHANXTA
    edited January 2012
    Dude, i've found sum1 tighter than u! ;-)
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    SHANXTA Small blind  15.00 15.00 1745.00
    xxx Big blind  30.00 45.00 1985.00
     Your hole cards
    • 2
    • 7
    		   
    Pharaoh9 Fold     
    yyy Call  30.00 75.00 1815.00
    JingleMa Fold     
    SHANXTA Fold     
    xxx Check     
    Flop
      
    • 3
    • 10
    • 5
    		   
    xxx Check     
    yyy Check     
    Turn
      
    • K
    		   
    xxx Check     
    yyy Check     
    River
      
    • 8
    		   
    xxx Bet  75.00 150.00 1910.00
    yyy Call  75.00 225.00 1740.00
    xxx Show
    • 4
    • 2
    		   
    yyy Show
    • J
    • J
    		   
    yyy Win Pair of Jacks 225.00  1965.00
    Sorry 4 mini thread hijack
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    Nah that's just standard station play, I had one myself posted in BBV, guy L/C's raise pre w/KK, they're great when you flop big in the BB and they can't fold :).
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  • simonnatursimonnatur
    edited January 2012
    in my opinion you dont understand dym play if you do not instamuck the JJ in this spot.
    You'ld need some very special reason to believe he was shoving any two here to make a call.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul) : I actually wouldn't take a 70/30 in the first hand of a DYM  if I knew I was only 70/30 to win the hand. I can find better spots later on to take down pots uncontested, or get my money in as a bigger favourite.  In a 70/30, I lose 30% of the time, obviously. So when I win the hand, I then have to cash about 78.5% of the time thereafter, or else I'm a losing player. Will I win 78.5% of the time after doubling up?  Another example of why I'd fold - At £3.30, I cash 2/3rds of the time. If I was playing in that game, would I want to take a 70/30 first hand in a game where I feel I have a massive edge and I'm expecting to win 67% of the time? 
    Posted by EvilPingu
    As i said in initial post, folding or calling, for variety of reasons can be fine.

    But If your refusing this flip believing your 70/30 then its bad.

    We refuse to get it in with significant edge, counting on cashing through playing less risk spots.  That assumption can easily be a mistake.

    If we think its a flip at best folding is obv fine.  But not with sign edge  May aswell fold A's to 6's as they win 1/5
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek
    edited January 2012
    Rake in DYMs mean that you have to be winning 55% of your games to break even. Even if we assume that he is as likely to have a smaller pair as he is to have QQ+ then against over cards you are 55% to win the hand which means that if you make this call and win the hand you must cash just to break even over time since 45% of the time you lose the DYM right there in this hand.

    He probably doesn't have a smaller pair. I'd say he either has AK or KK+ so calling here makes you a losing DYM player. This is why I don't play DYMs and think that they are silly ;-)

    A more interesting question would be what is the minimum hand that we need to call here? Would you fold KK? Interesting question because if his range for doing this is AK, KK and AA then we are 47%. Adding QQ to his range makes us 57% to it's probably still a fold with KK because even if QQ is in his range then we pretty much have to cash after winning the hand.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited January 2012
    Your only calling on what you perceive oppo shoving range to be here
    If you think range is 55+,A8s+,ATo+,KQs then fold, even though we have 60% equity it's still a fold

    If you range oppo wider than what is 10% of shoving range then call but it's very marginal

    20% looks like this 33+,A2s+,A4o+,KTs+,KQo and we call, 65% equity but we call with JJ+


    Would be nice to see what oppo is shoving here though, if oppo does it 1st hand then will have no problem doing throughout the game - be nice to get some info


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  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail
    edited January 2012
    I've changed my view slightly, i'm calling this 90% of the time and i'm very happy with it
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: DYM decision (Warning : This defines your soul):
    BTW there are actually a good few reasons why this could be a good call LONG TERM, but it's a secret ;)
    Posted by Poker_Fail
    Anything behind this....?
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  • bandinibandini
    edited January 2012
    Caveat : 'twas a late weekend game. I'm of the opinion it was ATC and that was my thought at the time so call based on that? I still dunno.

    Have met the villain again at dyms at same level and he seemed to know what he's doing. Was multi-tabling so didn't get round to asking him.

    Maybe just a "grrr" moment. We've all been there, lol.

    I think this was a lot tougher than the guys saying easy fold. Loads to consider. It could have been ATC. Which makes it immediate call, surely? But I dunno either.

    I folded but could have just have easily called. 20/80 at worse, eh? That's what you forget, even if terrible call, still 20/80. Sounds stupid, that's the worst. I reckon he was steaming, mis-clicked or just drunk. And I'm still not sure what the best move was, lol.

    You gotta love poker, eh?
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    Still kind of amazed that YOU found a fold here, just don't come across as the sort who could fold here lol
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