what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?

adz777

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

hi adz, i am playing nl4 atm, and am unsure myself as to which is the best stratagy, as raising big pre-flop usually gets respect and they either all fold, frustrating if u r holding kk or aa. or if 1 or 2 call then quite often others then call for value, so back to a multi-way pot again,which we don,t want. i have also been experimenting with the 3x raise, ie;12p, pre-flop, which i,ve been told should be 5 or even 6x. as i haven,t played enough sessions atm i can,t give a definate answer as to which way works best. although i can say that i have both won and lost playing both ways. early days,but it could be by playing the 3x way, i will probably lose less when i do lose and win less when i do win. only time will tell. i also think alot is to do with how much you are prepared to gamble. as some players are more than happy getting their money in with a flip or even as the underdog,as they do seem to hit there cards on a regular basis. think you just have to think over time getting in as a slight favourite is the better option. also, don,t we all remember the bad beats against us and forget those we get go for us? anyway mate, probably run into you at one of those tables sometime. good luck & best wishes, devon
Posted by devonfish5

keep me informed of your findings and yeah hopefully catch you at the tables soon mate

adz777

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

So what you're saying is you never hit two pairs, sets, straights, flushes, full houses or quads ?
Posted by AcidMan27

i never said that lol all i said is when i usually have a big hand i raise everyone follows and its usually mr 9 5 who hits the 2 pair  

adz777

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : It sounds to me that you are being too timid with your big hands in fear of someone having a big hand.. When this happens the resulting pattern is that you pay them off when they have outflopped you and you are either checking or betting small when you are ahead. You are rarely coming off well long term here... Just bet big and down every street you think are ahead and reassess as the hands goes on, like if you get raised on the turn etc... 
Posted by simuk

its not that im worried pre flop ill happily re raise if i think im dominating someone pre flop its just what happens after that when its like the domino effect. But ill take what you said on board and play down the streets strong maybe thatl pay off for me in the long run. thanks

scrumdown

i love playing bad players not on tikay there always hit or there out draw u thats fact

bandini

"In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself." - Confucius.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:
[QUOTE]"In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself." - Confucius.
Posted by bandini

And there you have it. I'd say that Confucius was a very wise man.

It seems to be inherent in poker players, especially Online, that defeat is always someone else's fault, usually the software - "Sky Poker did me again" sort of thing. In fact, Sky Poker never invented Poker.

There used to be a Ladbrokes Forum, & a Blue Square one, too, & their Forums were exactly the same, blaming the "Ladbrokes river" or the "Blue Square river".

I mean, did you ever hear anything quite so deluded? I feel so sorry for these guys who think like that, but such comments tell us a lot about them, rather than whatever Site they play on.

Never mind, "not my fault" is almost a national diease now.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

i love playing bad players not on tikay there always hit or there out draw u thats fact
Posted by scrumdown

A fact? Think I'd challenge that, Sir. It is not a fact, it is a figment of your imagination.

If they "always hit their draw" they must, by definition, be winning players. And that would make them winning players, not "bad" players. Logic ftw. 

Why not try it yourself, call every raise with any two? The case would soon be proven......



 

Lambert180

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : [QUOTE ]"In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself." - Confucius. Posted by bandini

And there you have it. I'd say that Confucius was a very wise man. It seems to be inherent in poker players, especially Online, that defeat is always someone else's fault, usually the software - "Sky Poker did me again" sort of thing. In fact, Sky Poker never invented Poker. There used to be a Ladbrokes Forum, & a Blue Square one, too, & their Forums were exactly the same, blaming the "Ladbrokes river" or the "Blue Square river". I mean, did you ever hear anything quite so deluded? I feel so sorry for these guys who think like that, but such comments tell us a lot about them, rather than whatever Site they play on. Never mind, "not my fault" is almost a national diease now.
Posted by Tikay10

Very well put Tikay. I don't mean to sound condescending but I do really feel sorry for these kinda people because they surely cannot enjoy the game when they believe so strongly that 'the system is against them'. I love making money as much as the next person but I primarily play the game for fun, and if I felt like that, I can't see why I'd wanna play.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : And there you have it. I'd say that Confucius was a very wise man. It seems to be inherent in poker players, especially Online, that defeat is always someone else's fault, usually the software - "Sky Poker did me again" sort of thing. In fact, Sky Poker never invented Poker. There used to be a Ladbrokes Forum, & a Blue Square one, too, & their Forums were exactly the same, blaming the "Ladbrokes river" or the "Blue Square river". I mean, did you ever hear anything quite so deluded? I feel so sorry for these guys who think like that, but such comments tell us a lot about them, rather than whatever Site they play on. Never mind, "not my fault" is almost a national diease now. Posted by Tikay10

Very well put Tikay. I don't mean to sound condescending but I do really feel sorry for these kinda people because they surely cannot enjoy the game when they believe so strongly that 'the system is against them'. I love making money as much as the next person but I primarily play the game for fun, and if I felt like that, I can't see why I'd wanna play.
Posted by Lambert180

Echoes my thoughts precisely. I SO want to sit down with each of them, one on one, & explain how poker works, so that instead of snarling & moaning so much, they found a way to handle what can be, at times, a brutally unfair game. I have no idea how they can enjoy the game, or even why they play it, if they think that way.

I would gladly give up my time, at no cost, to sit & chat with them on a one to one basis, to help them understand.

We are all responsible for our own actions, & it was always so.

pod1

adz, i would say nl 30 the game "settles" down a bit. it not easier by a long shot.. the advice to beat the levels getting to this level is spot on.less  "erratic" play but better plays, there is a trade off unfortunately.

adz777

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

adz, i would say nl 30 the game "settles" down a bit. it not easier by a long shot.. the advice to beat the levels getting to this level is spot on.less  "erratic" play but better plays, there is a trade off unfortunately.
Posted by pod1

thanks very much

pod1

no worries, not a politically correct statement, but i know what you ment :-)

Tikay10

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

adz, i would say nl 30 the game "settles" down a bit. it not easier by a long shot.. the advice to beat the levels getting to this level is spot on.less  "erratic" play but better plays, there is a trade off unfortunately.
Posted by pod1

As a statement of fact, I would state that it is HARDER to beat than 2p-4p. The higher the levels, the harder it is.

RAB642

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : A fact? Think I'd challenge that, Sir. It is not a fact, it is a figment of your imagination. If they "always hit their draw" they must, by definition, be winning players. And that would make them winning players, not "bad" players. Logic ftw.  Why not try it yourself, call every raise with any two? The case would soon be proven......  
Posted by Tikay10

 very well said Tikay cause we all know its just you that hits the draws in the take on tikay tournies lol

                           LOL

                           LOL

                           LOL

                           RAB ;p

   p.s  LOL

jugglegeek

In your orrigional post you ask what level of cash do you get "propa poker". The honest answer to this is you can get it at all levels. For example at NL4 recently I was on a table where instead of my normal 20p pre-flop raise I made it 12p UTG with 33 hoping for a string of callers and then a 3 on the flop so that I could go to value town. Everyone folded. Once it became apparent that the table was playing tight I raised AK from the button to 16p and everyone folded. At this point I left the table and found another.

To win at NL4 you need to have people call a standard 20p raise with junk like Q4 etc.

Imagine the following situation. You raise from the cut-off with AKo and the button calls. flop is QsJd3s . You decide to fire a c-bet (probably unwise out of possition) and he calls. turn is a 6h, you fire again and he calls. river is a 9c. You decide that he was probably drawing to a straight or a flush and will fold if you shove for 3/4 pot. You shove and he calls showing J4 to win with second pair.

Short-term this is a disaster. You have just lost a full buy-in. But in terms of information this is great. You have found one of the many players at NL4 that you know will call off all their stack with second pair. Next time you play this guy you can bet any hand better than top-pair-weak-kicker as big as you like and you will get full value.

Keep in you bankroll, play multiple tables, play 10k hands per month and be patient.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

In your orrigional post you ask what level of cash do you get "propa poker". The honest answer to this is you can get it at all levels. For example at NL4 recently I was on a table where instead of my normal 20p pre-flop raise I made it 12p UTG with 33 hoping for a string of callers and then a 3 on the flop so that I could go to value town. Everyone folded. Once it became apparent that the table was playing tight I raised AK from the button to 16p and everyone folded. At this point I left the table and found another. To win at NL4 you need to have people call a standard 20p raise with junk like Q4 etc. Imagine the following situation. You raise from the cut-off with AKo and the button calls. flop is QsJd3s . You decide to fire a c-bet (probably unwise out of possition) and he calls. turn is a 6h, you fire again and he calls. river is a 9c. You decide that he was probably drawing to a straight or a flush and will fold if you shove for 3/4 pot. You shove and he calls showing J4 to win with second pair. Short-term this is a disaster. You have just lost a full buy-in. But in terms of information this is great. You have found one of the many players at NL4 that you know will call off all their stack with second pair. Next time you play this guy you can bet any hand better than top-pair-weak-kicker as big as you like and you will get full value. Keep in you bankroll, play multiple tables, play 10k hands per month and be patient.
Posted by jugglegeek

Superb Post!

pod1

at no point have i disagreed with you tikay, infact i have agreed with your comment. i may be wrong but hes not asking whats easier.

adz777

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

at no point have i disagreed with you tikay, infact i have agreed with your comment. i may be wrong but hes not asking whats easier.
Posted by pod1

finally someones read my post correctly and thanks again

adz777

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : As a statement of fact, I would state that it is HARDER to beat than 2p-4p. The higher the levels, the harder it is.
Posted by Tikay10

im not a believer of that being completly true tk pokerwise a player working his way up the levels from 2/4p then yeah its harder as like you say they learn to win but not everyone who enters poker starts off at the bottom do they? Some players look at the lower levels and see it pointless just as in MTTs u get weaker players at the higher buys ins just taking shots. I find myself i do better in higher stakes MTTs than i do at lower MTTs in the storm on a certain site ive cashed in it over 3/4 times of entering it the last 1 i did on jan the 1st i finished 192nd out of over 35k but at the lower entrys i cant buy a win on the same site in my oppionion i find it easier playing above average players than below 1s as silly as that may sound

pod1

play what you feel comfortable and what you can afford, cant go wrong there i guess.

scrumdown

tikay agree with what u say all about variance  just seems  on here bad beat after bad beat calling u with any two suck out on u play on a site now not mention the name but got voted last year best software 20011 seems 100% better then here never mind all the do gooders jump on band wagan not haveing a moan been playing poker long enough to  know about the downswings

martin111

b/h and timed tourneys!!!

AcidMan27

I love how anybody that says the software isn't rigged or the not so good players don't win in the long run are seen as do-gooders or suck ups.

It's like being back at school.

pod1

think this has got off topic somewhat.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'? : im not a believer of that being completly true tk pokerwise a player working his way up the levels from 2/4p then yeah its harder as like you say they learn to win but not everyone who enters poker starts off at the bottom do they? Some players look at the lower levels and see it pointless just as in MTTs u get weaker players at the higher buys ins just taking shots. I find myself i do better in higher stakes MTTs than i do at lower MTTs in the storm on a certain site ive cashed in it over 3/4 times of entering it the last 1 i did on jan the 1st i finished 192nd out of over 35k but at the lower entrys i cant buy a win on the same site in my oppionion i find it easier playing above average players than below 1s as silly as that may sound
Posted by adz777

It is not an opinion, Adz, it is a fact. The higher the level, the tougher it is to win, & the more skilful you need to be.

Winning players at higher levels can ALL beat the lower levels. The reverse is not true, & if it were, they would mostly be playing the higher levels.

DOHHHHHHH

"It's publically documented that many talented pros can crush the big games but can't beat the micros online"  -- the_don90 

rancid

If you feel you have the game for NL20+ then go for it but if you can not adjust and win at NL4 then frankly you have no chance.

A very well known player  NL100+ (Coxyl) is playing and beating NL4 as a challenge
And how you ask, by adjusting --


Maybe give NL10 a shot as there's more Regs and you will find a better game but there's still the bad players who will frustrate and annoy you in the short term

Lambert180

It boggles the mind how people can be so oblivious to what are clearly facts. These players are exactly what you say they are, bad players, so what does it make you if you can't beat them? If you find someone who will keep calling bets with bottom pair or worse, then wait for your strong hands and go to value town when you flop TPTK or the like. Such a large part of the game is basic probability, you will hit your draws EXACTLY the same amount as they hit theirs if you play long enough, so it comes down to whether you make them pay to hit it or not.

It's also no different in an MTT, and I'm guessing you've not played enough of a sample to comment on where you really play best. If you've played say 100 low stake MTTs and 100 higher stakes ones, that is NEVER gonna give you an accurate picture of which you truly do better in. There might be a few more mines to dodge, and it may be better to play small pots and chip up slowly rather than taking races all the time but there is ALWAYS a way to beat bad players (hence why they consistently lose).

simuk

In Response to Re: what level of cash do i need to play where its actual poker and not 'lotto'?:

"It's publically documented that many talented pros can crush the big games but can't beat the micros online"  --  the_don90 
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

There is no truth in this at all of course... 

It is probably just a lack of effort in the smaller games and an increased spew factor...

If an experienced mid/high stakes pro were to properly concentrate as part of a prop bet or bankroll challenge (such as Coxy) at the micro/lower stakes they would destroy it...

You earn the right to play winning higher stakes poker, you don't win at those levels because it somehow suits your game more...

smarr

personally, although everyone else has made it quite clear they disagree, I think 20NL is where you can play some proper poker and not lotto. 4NL tilts me bad because of the lotto players and their luck. I make a steady profit at 20NL though. I'd advise trying it out.