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Flop Decision
Tough spot... hard to see what you're beating... he flatted your 4-bet though so you can rule out AA/KK and possibly QQ. Could easily be sitting there with AQ/JJ... don't know, tricky one!
Nice avatar btw.
Comments
you have 4 bet and now you want to check!!!!!!!!!
if your not checking then.......bet
do you think you should check ?
How do you get away from this hand, do you c/f , c/c and then c/f turn
If oppo flips over better then so be it...... you could b/f but really...........
Should we check and induce bluff or will oppo bet worse
b/f seems better imo
but..... oppo did flat 4 bet :S riddles man riddles
What is oppo flatting 4 bet OOP - AA/KK probs
Your basically 4 bet bluffing pre if you put your hand down on flop.
I think my hand is marginally ahead of my opponent's shoving range pre-flop. I would like to get as much money in the pot as possible.
Having seen three cards which alter the dynamic of the hand, my best guess is that I am probably behind the range of hands my opponent would call a 4bet with. To bet now still has to be for value as I cannot fold out better hands.
I'm talking of hesitation in the hand.
What are we doing on turn if Opponent leads into us? When its a brick or filler?
Are we flatting following two streets or giving up? Or looking to pot control by c/cing one street, letting the board develop cheaply in 4bet pot? You state hand is readless, so we dont have to interpret board as terrible for us.
I dont like going to the turn here with no additional info. As played looks like we are c/fing AK when 4bet pre on wet A high flop, without doing anything to protect our hand.
Buy in would help here.
Am happy to check back flop or bet for variety of reasons. My issue with the hand is what happens on later streets. If not behind already we let turn come off free, then river at a discount in 4bet pot.
There are alot of bad cards for us on turn. Doubtless opponents range is scary, but are we giving up on turn if he leads into us as played?
Do we think opponent 3bet stations the 4 bet w AQ/J or preemy PP's? Being readless we dont know. But given stacks he knows your unlikely 4bet folding to a 5bet shove when he holds the top of his range that your concerned by.
When checking back flop we need to have a clear decision made as to what we are doing if he leads into us on turn. If it is not to fold, we may as well bet flop. But there are som many turns that make our hand uglier.
flat 4 bet oop should be KK/AA so........
b/c, stick it in with backdoor draws )
probably going to c/r and show you AAA !
if we check or bet we will face the same decision tbh
rarther b/f than fold to a bet on turn
If we are ahead and check it down then we win
If we bet and oppo fold, we win -
oppo will not bet worse and if oppo does bet worse or better we are folding - we lose
get what am i sayings
When I comment that I dont like going to turn with no more info, I mean that our decision should be pretty much made on flop as to our intentions on turn. Any bet or call commits us. We are either behind or ahead on flop, or flipping- vs some combi draws. Nearly half the deck makes our decision more complex, paint, 10 or spade. With this in mind we are only going to turn to raise AI when he leads, to fold when he leads or have the turn card make our decision for us.
But in this case am not talking of betting for information. Read my reply again and try and take it in the context is was meant.
We can only bet flop to get it in given stacks, pot size.
by not betting you kinda are obviously
really. flatting 4 bet oop with them hands sucks tbh ) but we've all done it :O
I think overall if we check or bet, we are facing the same decision
But maybe thinking about it with back door equity we should check
Are we really sure oppo bets with worse/bluffs to go into c/c mode mmmmmm
Need reads on pre and post tbh - readless sux
i also said check back flop coz has doh just mentioned he could have set/2 pair hands so check back control pot and also in position see what opponent does on turn gain more info.
also I agree wilhelm obv did 4 bet for value just imo think the opponent could have easily smashed this flop wae aq,aj,qq,jj or missed wae hands like 10s or 9s so by betting flop better hands call or raise worse hands fold
we dont just bet because we have top pair top kicker got to think what opponent has imo
Would love to know what oppo thinks heroes 4 betting range is to be flatting with them hands oop tbh
also i`m just sayin they hands could be possible imo.
Also working on assumption that opponent has a real hand.
If we are looking to call a bet on turn that is going to be stack significant I far prefer continuing on flop. Maintain betting lead and prevent board from developing.
If stacks are deeper we can take a different line. But the with the pot being at this size with one committing bet, when we are willing to call a bet on turn, I much prefer opening on flop.
I can't say I remember playing with this guy ever but 'readless' you 4 bet and you make TPTK, flop is a check but I'm not folding to a blank turn.