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Flop Decision

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  • rancidrancid
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    Villain is affectionately known as "a ladderer", which suggests he's extremely risk averse..... That's why I'm unsure about the 4b pre, and very weary of this board. His 3betting range will be very tight, & he may well flat your 4 bet with T-Q's & AK, maybe even Kings, just to see no ace on the flop. If he 3bets TT+ & AQ+, hes smashed this flop.  It's a no brainer to check this back, if we bet we're looking for a loose call from KK & an optimistic TT only. 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    mmmm
    reads FTW

    If we are behind we will face a bet on turn so if we check or bet flop we will face the same decision
    iF we bet and they fold it's the same outcome as checking it down
    For me there one in the same

    The only merits to checking are if oppo bets worse/bluffs, but hey we gotta be sure on this )
    I guess the only problem I have with checking is leaving the door open to be bluffed off this hand very easily
    Showing strenght pre to check flop is either weak or strong so............ depends how capable oppo is

    checking flop then checking turn would seem, blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    What hands are we 4 betting pre and then happy to check that flop with knowing we are ahead







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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited February 2012
    tbf even against a random you'd assign a default 3b/call 4bet range of like TT/JJ/QQ/AK/AQ......

    These are the most likely hands ^^^^ no? :S

    Add in less likely ones, AJs? 99? KQs? even AA & KK....

    our tp tk does't look great against that :(

    Still at least we got position, might as well use it & check :P





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  • NColleyNColley
    edited February 2012

    Heros mistake was 4 betting pre, note 4 bet is not for value if villians calling range crushes you... (i.e he only flats AA/KK and folds everything else)

    Edit - Removed pokerstove stuff, can't see the range being right.

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  • rancidrancid
    edited February 2012

    Well what can I, if oppo flats 4 bet with this kinda range with that stack then pffffffft – not good, but why should it be no surprise if oppo shows 2 pr/set!

     

    So oppo thinks hero 4 bets mid prs/bluffs enough to make the call oppo worthwhile – come on )

     

    Gotta be ranging hero with QQ+AK surely

     

    Only makes sense to flat 4 bet with AA/KK but that’s my thinking and no history

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited February 2012
    Well it's 10/20 n eff stacks are 100xbb after pre flop action...

    So villain may well be set mining his TT/JJ/QQ....

    Rancid its a micro tourny on sky, not a wsop bracelet event, our oppos wont be playing perfectly, there will be plenty of mistakes for us to exploit! :P


    Instead of .....

    "So oppo thinks hero 4 bets mid prs/bluffs enough to make the call oppo worthwhile – come on )"

    Try.....

    "So oppo is looking at his own hand rather than thinking about what we hold & has decided he has a hand he doesn't want to fold until he has seen a flop because he might hit big"


    (and he probably did :S) :(
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited February 2012
    Readless, we dont have to work on a worst case scenario here and insta give up on the hand, especially when we have inflated it with the 4 bet pre.

    We priced in all 3 bet squeezes pre + badly bet pps.

    If I'm not folding turn when he leads (which I'm not saying I wont), I'm betting flop.  Simple.  Am not waiting for an additional reason to fold on turn, nor giving over all power and control in hand.  We are looking for excuses to fold in this hand, period, through thread.

    I doubt i 3bet pre IP here either as someone else said.

    OP'ster stated hand as readless, so am keeping it readless, despite hearing peoples notes on player.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited February 2012

     

    Dohhhhhh

     

    Oppo has not got the price to set mine here by hey I know what your saying – who cares about price – I call – I may get lucky- we all do it at various times because…. We human )

    We should factor in the fact that oppo/hero are not playing optimally but doesn’t mean we should not highlight that fact )

     

    Problem is if we think along the lines of oppo is bad, they could call with anything and we level ourselves too much

     

    I kinda prefer, o you made a bad call/move and got lucky and got my stack – wp sir! I wish you luck in the future

     

    All in all, I really have not got a problem with a check or a bet – just certain lines we should keep constant – think betting flop is my option has it’s feasible there are a ton of hands we 4 bet pre and continue on this flop while there are only 1 or 2 we check behind

    But I am loving our reads + back door equity so a check can't be that bad

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  • NColleyNColley
    edited February 2012
    If villian is purely set mining with QQ - 1010 then he is just as likely to set mine with all other pockets too IMO, just as likely to hit a set with QQ as you are with 44.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited February 2012
    He's not 3betting 44/55 etc pre tho.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited February 2012
    Let's just see results pleae "+_)

    I give oppo credit for AAA !

    If oppo has 2pr/sets on this flop, should oppo check flop versus hero 4 betting range?
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  • NColleyNColley
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    He's not 3betting 44/55 etc pre tho.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    my bad, had a failmoment.
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    Heros mistake was 4 betting pre, note 4 bet is not for value if villians calling range crushes you... (i.e he only flats AA/KK and folds everything else) Edit - Removed pokerstove stuff, can't see the range being right.
    Posted by NColley
    In this instance, I don't believe it does.
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    Well what can I, if oppo flats 4 bet with this kinda range with that stack then pffffffft – not good, but why should it be no surprise if oppo shows 2 pr/set!   So oppo thinks hero 4 bets mid prs/bluffs enough to make the call oppo worthwhile – come on )   Gotta be ranging hero with QQ+AK surely   Only makes sense to flat 4 bet with AA/KK but that’s my thinking and no history
    Posted by rancid
    I should have mentioned, if oppo has a note on me he may think I'm a maniac.  Or he may not.
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    Let's just see results pleae "+_) I give oppo credit for AAA ! If oppo has 2pr/sets on this flop, should oppo check flop versus hero 4 betting range?
    Posted by rancid
    I see no benefit in revealing the result.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision : I should have mentioned, if oppo has a note on me he may think I'm a maniac.  Or he may not.
    Posted by Wilhelm

    That clears that one up ) mr readless!

    Your obviously 4 betting  for value versus oppo 3 bet/flat 4 bet range versus yourself

    not so readless if you have loads of meta
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  • rancidrancid
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision : I see no benefit in revealing the result.
    Posted by Wilhelm

    I do - lolz
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision : That clears that one up ) mr readless!
    Posted by rancid
    I am readless.  He may not be.  I'm not sure if I've ever played him before.  If I have, he may have a note on me.  There needed to be more maybes in that explanation.
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision : I do - lolz
    Posted by rancid
    None for me, then.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited February 2012

    Can you PM us result if you don't want it known?

    I would like to know if I read the situation correctly.....


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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    Can you PM us result if you don't want it known? I would like to know if I read the situation correctly.....
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    For you, anything.  Doubtless I'll see it on this thread in ten minutes time.
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  • liamboi11liamboi11
    edited February 2012
    yeah id be interested in knowin aswell wilhelm plz
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    yeah id be interested in knowin aswell wilhelm plz
    Posted by liamboi11
    My PMs aren't working.  I didn't take down the hand number and now I can't find it.  I do remember that he had AQ though.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision : None for me, then.
    Posted by Wilhelm
    Well you played the hand so if you did see showdown you will have all the benefit )

    Just would be intresting to know what oppo had
    You just never know if it's standard play versus random or oppo depedant in these cases tbh

    edit: AQ emmmmmmmmmmm ok




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  • liamboi11liamboi11
    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision:
    In Response to Re: Flop Decision : My PMs aren't working.  I didn't take down the hand number and now I can't find it.  I do remember that he had AQ though.
    Posted by Wilhelm
    no probs m8 vul in that the hand tho
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