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this happens alot and is so annoying...
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| SUPERK1NG | Small blind | 15.00 | 15.00 | 2760.00 | |
| ClintonH83 | Big blind | 30.00 | 45.00 | 1940.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| walrusegg | Call | 30.00 | 75.00 | 1120.00 | |
| clenzac | Call | 30.00 | 105.00 | 1930.00 | |
| tillyseeed | Fold | ||||
| SUPERK1NG | Call | 15.00 | 120.00 | 2745.00 | |
| ClintonH83 | Raise | 180.00 | 300.00 | 1760.00 | |
| walrusegg | Fold | ||||
| clenzac | Call | 180.00 | 480.00 | 1750.00 | |
| SUPERK1NG | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| ClintonH83 | Bet | 240.00 | 720.00 | 1520.00 | |
| clenzac | All-in | 1750.00 | 2470.00 | 0.00 | |
| ClintonH83 | Call | 1510.00 | 3980.00 | 10.00 | |
| ClintonH83 | Show |
| |||
| clenzac | Show |
| |||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| clenzac | Win | Two Pairs, Jacks and 2s | 3980.00 | 3980.00 | |
Comments
How horrible is this haha im getting some sick beat tonight!
fold to the all in at this stage ... you still have 150 bbs and lots of time to build your stack. AK is only A high after all!
At this blind level plenty of players will treat JJ as low - med pp and set mine for the big stack
can he really call my all in with JJ? i think i fold it
The second hand: I agree with Dudeskin that you should never call pre-flop given your stack size. Given the flop, neither you nor your opponent is deep enough to fold and your opponent has been coolered. You've been unlucky after that but you can't blame your opponent for it.
I like your third hand alot more. Your opponent probably should fold his JJ - he's basically hoping that you show AK because it's the only hand in your 5-betting range that he's not dominated by - but we can't complain about our opponents' play. The times when you take the hand down pre-flop and win all the dead money (which will add more than 1/4 to your stack) added to the times you'll win the hand at showdown definitely make the shove a profitable play. The fact you have AK makes AA and KK less likely and, when called, you'll see underpairs most often.
The second one should of of just called and seen a flop? hit nothing and folded? is that a better option than to go all in against someone who wont fold JJ? im confused what to do cause im losing that much with AK when i get it i just feel like folding it hahahaha
The second time you had AK (Posted at 8.57pm) you played it exactly the way I would have done.
I know it can sound obvious, but remember, you can not affect what decisions your opponents make, you can only make sure that you make the right decisions.
The theorum of poker says that everytime you play a hand the exact same way you would do if you knew his hand, then you've made the correct decision, and if I knew he had JJ I'd shove, because you're gonna win 50% of the time (well, slightly less) and but you're gonna make him fold quite often too.
Cheers Dudeskin, you've saved me twenty minutes of typing.
I have to say I disagree with alot of your assessment, ******. I appreciate you putting in the effort to explain your logic, though, as it really gives us a chance to properly discuss our differences.
I don't think that the raise to 200 (which appears to be 3x due to Sky's confusing system for betting in the blinds) is enough. Facing a raise and a call we stand to be able to get more value from someone who will call a bigger raise or possibly see the initial raiser 4-bet us. More importantly a bigger raise gives us more chance to isolate one opponent to play the hand heads-up. Playing out of position on any flop is really difficult with any hand and seeing a flop three-handed with AA makes us less than 50% to win. Saying that we're in a great spot when our smallish 3-bet is called by two players that have position on us is not something I could agree with.
I also have to disagree with the range of hands you're putting our opponent on when the flop comes down. There is almost no chance that either player would call our pre-flop 3-bet with AA, KK, QQ or AK. All of these hands are almost certain to 4-bet, partly to get value for their hand and partly because they don't want to play a flop three-handed either. These are hands that want to build big pots, pre-flop and the play in this hand means that these big hands are the least likely hands to be in our opponents' ranges. Smaller pairs, suited connectors, QJ, KJ, JT, etc are all far more likely than big pocket pairs at this point.
So if we're to analyse their ranges we have to put them on good hands but not great ones. This means we're thinking about hands like KQ, KJ, QJ, JT, JJ, TT, 99 and lower pairs. If that's the range of hands we're putting our opponents on then this flop looks really bad for our hand. There's no reason before any betting takes place to believe that we're definitely behind but after we've led at it and the other two players have both gone all-in, we really have to think we're behind. One could certainly be playing a draw but, with two players all-in, a draw really is the weakest we'll face and one of the two, at least, figures to have us beat.
The last point I would make is about the bet size on the flop: Since it's such a dangerous flop for our hand we've bet far too much by making it a full pot bet. If our opponents have no hand at all they'll fold to a more standard, half-pot bet. If they're drawing we'll extract more value from them with a half-pot bet and can lead on any blank turn. Also, if our opponents have us beat here, we can get away from our hand for 305 instead of 610 when the flop is raised and re-raised.
Having put in the 610 bet it is difficult to fold for the remainder but we really do have alot of information to say that we're beat and, even though we're getting pretty good pot-odds to make the call, we could be drawing virtually dead against a straight or drawing to one out against a set + a flush-draw or to five outs against two-pair + a flush draw. We're in really bad shape and should fold.
the 2 big stacks were calling anyones pre flop all in and winning, so got AJ and thought shud i call or go all in?? decided to call and see what they did? anyway flop comes 10 8 J and i decide to go all in, she has J8
i know i probably should of gone all in pre flop but i didnt really wanna go all in AJ and any raise they were going to call anyway! maybe shud of folded if i wasnt going to go all in? i dunno?
So your mistake in the first hand was limping.
Your mistake in the second hand, with the AT, was... well you didn't make a mistake. You got all your chips into the middle and were a favourite when you did so. More importantly, you made the raise and put your opponent under pressure. (To be precise, you had to make the call of a small amount, but it was your raise that effectively put your opponent all-in. He would have known that his decision was for his stack) One thing that has to be said, though, is that your opponent with the KJ was never likely to fold as he'd already put in nearly 1/6 of his stack.
It does concern me a little that you didn't actually set him all-in because it suggests that you hadn't paid attention to his stack size. Awareness of the size of our opponents' stacks is one of the most important elements of poker. I can't emphasise that enough.
Now, all the hands you've posted so far have been hands that you've lost. If you'd like us to truly evaluate your play then you'll need to post some hands you've won as well. The mistakes we make when we win are just as costly as those we make when we lose. So if you'd like to post some hands you've won, we can give you a better idea of whether you are "just a shocking player or unlucky" as you put it.
It would be good to post some hands that you won playing through the streets as well as hands that you won getting it in pre-flop or on the flop. Post some of these on the clinic and you might get a better idea of leaks in your game and of areas of weakness that you're not aware of.