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live ruling- thoughts please
final table of an mtt 10 handed.
folds round to c/o who makes a standard raise. Dealer accidentally mucks the raisers cards...
ruling is that although this is dealer error, the player should have protected his cards and he had to sacrifice 1 big blind which was shipped to the player in the big blind who scooped the pot!
I havent seen this before. The table was happy for the hand to be voided and redealt, but the floor insisted on the above outcome.
The player concerned went on to win said tournament and has learnt that protecting your cards is vital!
Was the ruling correct, or could they have allowed the hand to be voided? All players would have accepted this without fuss.
folds round to c/o who makes a standard raise. Dealer accidentally mucks the raisers cards...
ruling is that although this is dealer error, the player should have protected his cards and he had to sacrifice 1 big blind which was shipped to the player in the big blind who scooped the pot!
I havent seen this before. The table was happy for the hand to be voided and redealt, but the floor insisted on the above outcome.
The player concerned went on to win said tournament and has learnt that protecting your cards is vital!
Was the ruling correct, or could they have allowed the hand to be voided? All players would have accepted this without fuss.
Comments
Firstly as to was the ruling correct. As we know there are no standardised rules in poker an each card room has its own set of rules. So yes the ruling was correct because it is their rules and they apply to all players not just this one player concerned.It doesnt matter whether we agree with them or even like them rules like this are to be followed.
Secondly the player was 100% at fault during this hand no matter what mistake the dealer made. Unless you are actually folding your cards then at no point should they even be made remotely available for the dealer to muck. So he made the first mistake which lead to the second and he was penalised for it, which will teach him not to do it again.
But as the player in the big blind i could do nothing.
But some cases the floor will try to do what is morally right, by trying to retrieve the cards from the muck, or allowing a player to take back his last bet. This sometimes can make the situation worse.
It happened in the WSOP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx7tukP7aHE
There was also an astonishing hand at GUKPT Blackpool last year where there was an all in and a call. The hands were shown QQ v JJ. The dealer brought the cards to the centre of the table, but then instead of dealing the flop, inexplicably mucked both hands and started shuffling !
The TD made a very strange ruling, which proved highly controversial.
I am sorry to say this, but no matter what we may all WANT to say, or think, this, as reported, is NOT a Dealer error, I'm afraid.
Under ALL CIRCUMSTANCES, it is the responsibility of the player to protect his or her hand.
Even if the Dealer clambered over the table to scoop in those cards - the PLAYER still has the reponsibility to protect his or her hand.
It's a mistake which is rarely made twice by the same player.......
I can't believe your first sentence here. Yes, of course it's the players responsibility to protect his/her cards, but the dealer has made an error by mucking a hand when it shouldn't have been.
Players make mistakes, dealers make mistakes. We're all human, none of us is perfect.
Your last sentence however is completely correct!
Sorry you disagree, but those are the rules, right across the entire poker world, & I don't make the rules!
There is a You Tube somewhere clip of a young lady in the WSOP who made the very same misdtake, & the Dealer mucked her hand. She went all loopy & threw a little strop, but it did no good.
The hand is dead dead dead, as dead as Zed, baby.
Here you go.
The swearing has been bleeped out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx7tukP7aHE
Players must protect their hands at all times. End of.
Unfortunately, just such an incident arose in the SPT Brighton Main Event, too.
It's a lesson players MUST take on board if they plan to play Live Poker. It's a life lesson too - we can't always blame others for our own mistakes.
But it remains the players responsibility to protect their hands. It is best that players understand that totally, & don't rely on there being a sensible TD, in a good mood.
The rule is absolutely clear, & sacrosant.
You say it's a mistake no player makes twice
It should be a mistake no dealer makes twice, otherwise they should be axed.
I'm sorry, I don't make the rules, & they are the Rules, & anyone who does not understand that, & accept it, is heading for trouble.
At no point can we get off that hook by blaming the Dealer. We should, & must, protect our cards. It was always so.
I think it's a shame that it's the players responsibility to compensate for the dealers incompetence at doing their job correctly
In the event the player in seat 2 raises and has a card protector on his cards and the dealer takes the cards, what would the ruling be?
in the event i seen of this the rule mentioned above was used claiming the player didnt protect his cards.
There IS a Rule which says "It is the players responsibility to protect their hand at all times". If we think the Dealers are likely to make mistakes, all the more reason to protect our hand.
The Floor are summoned, & the player is required to name his EXACT TWO cards at first time of asking. (No second chances). If he does so, his cards can be recovered from the muck, & play of the hand continues, always providing no further action behind has taken place.
In this case, the player has acted correctly, so he does not get penalised.
If the player does not act correctly, he/she DOES get penalised.
I should add - in answering Don's question - that the player WHISPERS the identity of the 2 cards. If he shouted it out loud, & everyone could hear, he might have a problem.......
There are some weird & wonderful rules in Live Poker.
Try this one.
You are playing Live Poker, & it is you to act.
The guy to act AFTER you - to your left, accidentally mucks his hand "out of turn".
The guy behind HIM now, caused by the "domino effect", also mucks his hand, too.
Guess who gets penalised?
Correct - YOU do - your hand is declared dead.
It is absolutely standard stuff in Live Poker.
I'm really not sure how Online Players handle the transition to "Live" - some just can't. Maybe it is because they can't blame the software, I don't know, but some do struggle to accept standard "Live" rules which have existed forever.
It's tough out there.......
PS - Great to see you at the weekend.
Rulings like this must put some people off playing live poker, me included (although I will eventually) makes it seem a lot lesss "fun".
Weird, eh?
You will find as you get older - though not quite as old as me - you will come to accept "bad refereeing decisions" & the like are just part of life. You can whitter & chunter yourself to an early grave, but things go wrong sometimes, best to just shrug the shoulders & move on.
Getting upset rarely changes anything. It's like footballers arguing with the ref over a penalty, or an iffy yellow card - the ref ain't ever gonna change his mind. And that footballer ain't ever gonna be on Mastermind......