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In defence of tournament players
Cash game players always think they're better than us MTT players (probably because they make more money) and talk about 'donkaments'. Well this is a defence of tournament players:
Cash is boring. Fold, fold, fold.
Hands played between other opponents are still hugely significant (the winner can't just stand up and take the chips off the table).
You can win money without winning a single hand.
If you get unlucky, you can only lose your buy-in and not your entire stack.
The best cash players are usually poor tournaments players (particularly late on).
You learn to play against moderate or poor opponents, as well as good ones.
You don't get stuck on one table with too many boring people for too long.
Going on tilt (or getting drunk) doesn't ruin your month.
Robots can play cash to an extent. Tournaments reward action players.
You're not going to sit down with a tenner and stand up with 2 grand at a cash table. You can at a tourney table.
A tournament is a warm, organic, living, breathing, evolving thing. Cash games are cold and frigid.
You need more patience in a cash game. Patience is just another way of saying "the ability to overcome boredom".
Tournaments keep the live ones playing because sometimes they'll make a big score.
The people are friendlier.
Cash is boring. Fold, fold, fold.
Hands played between other opponents are still hugely significant (the winner can't just stand up and take the chips off the table).
You can win money without winning a single hand.
If you get unlucky, you can only lose your buy-in and not your entire stack.
The best cash players are usually poor tournaments players (particularly late on).
You learn to play against moderate or poor opponents, as well as good ones.
You don't get stuck on one table with too many boring people for too long.
Going on tilt (or getting drunk) doesn't ruin your month.
Robots can play cash to an extent. Tournaments reward action players.
You're not going to sit down with a tenner and stand up with 2 grand at a cash table. You can at a tourney table.
A tournament is a warm, organic, living, breathing, evolving thing. Cash games are cold and frigid.
You need more patience in a cash game. Patience is just another way of saying "the ability to overcome boredom".
Tournaments keep the live ones playing because sometimes they'll make a big score.
The people are friendlier.
Comments
EDIT: I play both so I have no bias, and the standard of poker player found in MTT's is far inferior to that found in Cash games of equivilant stakes, and also, the skill set needed to suceed in MTT's is far easier to obtain.
I find it far too slow with (especially at micro stakes) too much loose play.
The last time I played cash here, I took the max (£10) to the table on the 2p/4p.
One player had the nerve to ask why I had bought in so much.
Later in the game, I had built this up nicely to £17.00 but went back down to my original tenner in 3 hands.
One guy pushed with 1.00 with 7's and I called with AK and lost.
The next hand he pushed with AQ, .I called with 10's and lost.
The final hand He pushed with 5's and again I called with AQ and lost.
So he won three races, only had one move which was all in, congratulated himself on his fantastic play and left the table.
I can play cash (badly) and i get the strategy and stuff but for me MTTS are the type of poker that appeals to me the most!
The thrill of an MTT, the ups and downs the pure roller coaster of adrenaline and emotion. Nothing compares imo.
I agree with GREGHOGG here. I DONT play cash anymore for the fear of losing my bankroll very quickly. I decided this over a year ago on another poker site where i lost more than i won on cash tables. Since only playing on MTT's or SNG's, i can control my spend a lot better and enjoy playing tourneys a lot lot more. But i do find that in a larger MTT the 1st hour or so can be beneficial to the more experienced player whereas in the latter stages it becomes a bit of a shove fest and luck plays a bigger part.
P.S.....congratulations Gregg on a good finish last night in the primo (with my chips!, lol)
Any quick examples of why they play different would be appreciated, for instance, with a given hand would you do one thing in a tt and something else in a cash game?
ray
A few thoughts on here:
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3a4d9a9553-5b1d-4a3e-955f-7f4a38b4e72eDiscussion%3a4e20cf91-0bfa-42e8-9a13-5d0c6b29d66f
Just to clarify your post, are you making the point that tourney players as well as cash players will refer to mtt's as donkaments and that big blusters point is that it is only cash players that do so?
I started off playing sml cash tables, but since going over to S&G & MTT i find the ppl nicer & the chat better. I also find MTT have me spend less cash if that makes sense, longer games for one price suits my BR better.
XX amanda
And hi amanda, i am the same as you, and like the fact that in sng or mtt's you can only lose the initial stake, and that this can last a few hours. Mtt's also tend to be more sociable as players tend to be less focused on making a profit, and more interested in enjoying a game of poker, and having a chat.
quote: Robots can play cash to an extent. Tournaments reward action players
I dont think robots can play cash well (maybe wrong), they definitely can play turbo mtt's and turbo sng's very well as every important decision is mostly a maths based one. (push all in or fold)
A loose style works better in a cash game if you are a good hand reader than it does in a tourny.
Tournaments maybe more friendly but i dont think the standard of players are as good, the more deeper everyone is at a cash table the more skill which is involved so it attracts better skilled players.
Ne1 can win a fast structured tourny as there is so much luck involved, a exception to this is the deepie at 7.30 which usually only attracts around 20ppl but i cant see a bad player winning that as most of the time every1 is over 30bb deep, so it essentially plays as a cash game.
Also Doyle Bruson and Phil Ivey will miss a wsop event to play a juicy cash game as they know their skill is likely going to make them more money.
Cash 1 Tournys 0 .............. lol ;-)
My prefered type of MTT are deepstacks, lots of play, its hard to commit yourself to pots early on so hands are always foldable if you get into trouble (just like cash) so IMO deepstacks have taught me how to play cash, and from that I am now making more money.
There are to many loose players on the tables and I find them very hard to read.
I perfer the STT or the D/S MTT. Players are much friendlier and chat more.
I can't remember the last cash game I played where there was any chat going on. This is mostly due to multi-tabling.
im rally not sure which i like best, tourneys or cash games, i prefer playing tourneys but my main cash comes from games.
But as far as the comparison of skills and abilities it cant be done. It is the same as comparing snooker players to pool players. Although the basics of the games are the same the skill sets required for each discipline is different.
Which is why you find that people tend to be tourny or cash players there are few who can become extremely proficient at both. For me i prefer tournys especially the deep stacks, but i have noticed a few chip donators on the cash tables and will gladly take their unwanted cash.
i think that its widely regarded that life changing amounts of money can actually be won in MTTS but cash can give a more consistant income. My personal preference is to play cash online, and MTTS live. Each to there own, but having sat at a few live cash tables, they can become fairly brutal! lol.
There are lots of things to be said for all forms of poker. "Chacun a son gout" as the French would say. (Apologies for no accents on the letters, I'm unaware of how to achieve this).
Personally, I like to play cash, STTs and MTTs and would say that each have their merits although STTs are definitely the most "mechanical".
W TF. Do you understand how your stack sizes dictate your play like 50pc of the time in MTT. In cash you can fold, fold fold and reload. But yeah in cash you can play a far wider range of hands because you are gonna be deepstacked.
Hands played between other opponents are still hugely significant (the winner can't just stand up and take the chips off the table).
I have no idea what this means.
You can win money without winning a single hand.
This is impossible.
If you get unlucky, you can only lose your buy-in and not your entire stack.
W TF. If you get unlucky in a tournie and lose a tenner BI, to a fish play its gone and you no longer have the opportunity to sit back down and get the fish back. In cash you can lose and reload and get him back 5 hands later. Also if you lose a £10BI on MTT or a £10 stack on cash whats the difference. You make no sense.
The best cash players are usually poor tournaments players (particularly late on).
No they aren't. Cash players are far more adaptable. It isn't hard to learn about stack sizes and pushing ranges. A lot of times in MTT you can just follow a list.
You learn to play against moderate or poor opponents, as well as good ones.
Yes cos in cash only good players play.
You don't get stuck on one table with too many boring people for too long.
Yes because having some banter in the chat box OI OI />>>>>> developing reads and using them to your advantage.
Going on tilt (or getting drunk) doesn't ruin your month.
Yes it can. If you go on tilt in a MTT and bust out maybe that was the one tournie where the luck woulda been on your side and you woulda took down the £3k 1st place.
Robots can play cash to an extent. Tournaments reward action players.
You appear to have this the wrong way round. You do realise that Annette_15 once won an MTT without looking at her whole cards, simply using position? You also realise that on other sites people can play 50 STTs at once because it is easy to become a robot.
You're not going to sit down with a tenner and stand up with 2 grand at a cash table. You can at a tourney table.
You are right, thats the only reason that I play tournies for the big cash.
A tournament is a warm, organic, living, breathing, evolving thing. Cash games are cold and frigid.
I hvae no idea what you are on about.
You need more patience in a cash game. Patience is just another way of saying "the ability to overcome boredom".
wat
Tournaments keep the live ones playing because sometimes they'll make a big score.
This i'll admit. Tournies have a big elemnet of luck so yes big fish will win some big money, however there are nights on the cash tables where fish run like god and take a 100bb BI upto 500/600bb. This will generally have the same effect.
The people are friendlier.
Ok.
SCOTTY 5/6
Ok if you are in a fairly small field in an MTT, and a couple of players take 90pc of the field out in the first hour or so before you get blinded away, yes it is possible.
Yes all of my posts are daft. Reading them back I come across as such an idiot who has never played the game before.
Oh and one final thing there are far more fish on tournies than cash because people are attracted to the big headline figure. For example if you satellite into the Primo for like £5 you have a shot at taking down close to £4k. That brings so many fish to the party, and they will get lucky sometimes as we have all seen on the poker channel.
I am 90pc a cash player, have rarely looked into tournie strategy and only really started playing the tournies on here in the last year, despite beind on Sky for 3 years. Look at my sharkscope I would guess that it has far better stats than most people on here apart from Mr Greghogg., I so wish I had been playing tournies from day 1 when the open was like 300 runners. My ROI would be massive.
Touries havea more limited skill set. In cash you play poker. A lot of time in tournies you just play press the all in button.
I didn't realise there was so much rivalry between the stt/mtt bunch and the cash bunch.
Reminds me of the mods and rockers.
Both have their advantages/disadvantages I suppose.
I hate getting bust out of an mtt/stt with some donk playing k2. At least in cash, you can reload and get it back.
I play a lot of cash at home, when we have pals round and I prefer this to a tourney we also run. But online I prefer the buzz of tournaments.
There are a number of posters on here who are very good cash players. I think that if we started a thread with cash tips/advice then you would be a convert in a week
But yeah I do understand why MTT/STT are enjoyed. It is a good way for newvbies to learn the ABCs of poker at a low risk to themselevs. Stuff like the forum low BI tournies are really good for the new players and they do provide an essential learning curve.