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Raise sizing according to James Hartigan from last nights show
Morning all,
After watching some of last night's show and James's comments about rasie sizing pre-flop i would like to discuss a couple of things:
James stated that 3x was too big and should be around 2.1 or 2.2x
Firstly if you are multi-tabling how would you have time to calculate this and then manually input it in to each table?
Secondly i think on Sky the 2x button is actually 3x ?
e.g.
With blinds 50/100 if you hit the 2x button it actually raises to 300 , which is 3x the BB.
Lastly i think the reason players 3x is that 2x is seen as a weak raise and more likely to get more callers and 3 bets, and stated many times on here you don't want a multiway pot with AA.
Thoughts please
Cheers
Mick
After watching some of last night's show and James's comments about rasie sizing pre-flop i would like to discuss a couple of things:
James stated that 3x was too big and should be around 2.1 or 2.2x
Firstly if you are multi-tabling how would you have time to calculate this and then manually input it in to each table?
Secondly i think on Sky the 2x button is actually 3x ?
e.g.
With blinds 50/100 if you hit the 2x button it actually raises to 300 , which is 3x the BB.
Lastly i think the reason players 3x is that 2x is seen as a weak raise and more likely to get more callers and 3 bets, and stated many times on here you don't want a multiway pot with AA.
Thoughts please
Cheers
Mick
Comments
However i disagree that you cant count the amount quickly. I mean a happy medium would be a 2.5x which should also be acceptable. If your confused on this one, count the BB times it by 2 and value of SB thats your amount. So if blinds are 100/200 it would be 500 (200x2 = 400 +100 = 500) quick way i use. Although ive used a very basic blind level to show this.
can't wait for vespa's response donald
Totally agree with the auto pick buttons, hopefully they'll be included in the new software.
Cheers
Mid stages of a tournament, 2.1 / 2.2x has become accepted as the new opening bet size. The arguement being that as blinds get bigger in relation to stacks this helps to control the size of the pot (particularly as more people 3, 4, 5 bet nowdays) and that a 2.2x raise will give you exactly the same information as a 3x.
2.1x - 2.5x is considered the 2012 norm mainly because players raise lighter than they used to and the norm is to get 3 bet later on so by raising smaller you can 4 bet smaller and if you are 4 betting with a marginal hand you still have the equity to fold if you are 5 bet all in.
Of course the down side is, a smaller raise may attract more weaker hands into the pot or show perceived weakness and if you are raising 2.1x with small suited connectors etc then you may well have to fold later on.
I think in better standard games the 2.1x raise is a must but try this on a 2.25 Bounty Hunter and you just attract 5 callers! Also in better standard games you will see more pots taken down with increased pre-flop aggression.
Obv James is commenting on the better standard Sky tournaments so in my opinion 2.1x is standard (although is their really a standard raise? Who decided what is standard?) I think 2.1x is a must in later stages for the exact reasons stated above, min 3 bet is then 4x so if you want to 4 bet it allows some pot control.
Dave
Beat me to it!!
Very nice replies
Cheers
Mick
my bad
Though I also think you make a valid point, I guess it comes to standard of play and a difference between online and live.
Min raising tends to be frowned on by many people, but really what difference does a x2 to an x2.1 or x2.2 bet make.
If you are going to defend, speculate or gamble I can't see it makes a big difference, particularly pre flop.
EDIT:
Solar and Slykllist give great explanations as to the 'logic' behind the x2.1 bets and x2.2 bets and I know it's the 'in way' of playing, but it reminds me of Ronaldo when he first came on the scene....a lot of fancy tricks but sometimes lacking the end product!
The best i've seen was blinds where 2500/5000 on a tourny on other site. 9 handed MP player opens to 20,000 from a 50,000 stack and folded to a short 30,000 TOTAL shove.
However if i have 100 in and im asked for another 150/200, that does, for some reason, mean im folding if i dont have the goods. Rather odd really.
Probobly just cus im a massive donknoobfish.
this is why raise sizes have got smaller ) exploit the weak !
If someone perceives a min-raise from us as weak when we're actually doing it with our entire range we should be happy and that's a great argument in favour of min-raising.
The difference between a min-raise and a 2.1x raise is purely psychological. Our opponents ocassionally think that clicking min-raise is automatic but if we've made it 2.1x we've obviously thought about it and we must be a "cunning" player: Silly people, us poker players. lol
I think you should be able to set your own buttons up
Min-raising after the flop generally telegraphs your hand and while it may seem like you're gaining extra value, you usually only succeed in causing your opponent to lock-up and not make another bet. Make a "proper" raise or just call and let your opponent keep firing. You'll almost always get more value this way.
Sounds like someone actually asked about this. They didn't.. It just gets on my wick. lol
Every raise is situational innit-- If the whole table limps round to you in bb with QQ, are you gonna raise it 2.1x?
New standard raise size---lol