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Checking down
Hi everyone.
Was on the final table last night in the open with 4 players left.
Cant remeber exact amounts etc but a guy went all in, another called and i had good odds with something like KJ (the hands etc r not really relevant).
Me and the caller had this guy well covered so obviously we check down to put him out and ladder.
It went check check on flop, check check on turn, then the river gave me the Nut flush as A was on flop. He checked and i also checked out of courtesy for the unwritten rule and to be a gentleman.
The other guys watching all agreed but my mate reckons i should have bet.
The more i think about it now i'm thinking perhaps i should have.
Opinions greatly recieved!
Was on the final table last night in the open with 4 players left.
Cant remeber exact amounts etc but a guy went all in, another called and i had good odds with something like KJ (the hands etc r not really relevant).
Me and the caller had this guy well covered so obviously we check down to put him out and ladder.
It went check check on flop, check check on turn, then the river gave me the Nut flush as A was on flop. He checked and i also checked out of courtesy for the unwritten rule and to be a gentleman.
The other guys watching all agreed but my mate reckons i should have bet.
The more i think about it now i'm thinking perhaps i should have.
Opinions greatly recieved!
Comments
You should have bet if you had the nuts.
In some Casinos (Live Poker) you would be penalised or Disqualified for not betting with the nuts on the River.
There is a "convention" for checking down in the situation you described. But there is also a convention that if you have the Nuts you MUST bet, unless you are OOP, & attempting to induce action from a player behind.
It's actually unfair on the shortie not to play "properly" here.
Many congrats on a nice Cash.
I shall be sending you a Message shortly - if we are Sky Poker "Friends" it will be Private, failing that, it will be on your Profile Page I think. In case anyone wonders why, it's nothing to do with last night's Tourney, it's a private matter.
It's simple Mr Dude.
If you have the nuts, no matter WHAT the circumstances, you must bet on the end. If you have Players behind, who you are SURE will Bet, maybe a Check is acceptable - just - but there are no other exceptions I can think of.
BET THE NUTZ.
PS - You are the schmizz.
I am sure i was ahead all the way through the hand but once i had nut flush on the river i was unseure of what the "rules" are. I think in the case last night he would have folded if i'd bet.
If it was early in tournament dont think i would have given it another thought, but because there was only 4 of us left then it was a big stand out thing.
If you are betting the nuts on the flop, which would lead to your opponent folding, and the player that is all in out draws you by the river, but had the other player still been in the hand he wouldve overtaken both of you, then there is a reason for checking down (but this is also debatable).
Once the river comes there can be no outdraws, you either have the nuts or you dont. If you do then bet, you never know what your opponent may do, he could shove and you climb 2 steps up the ladder with a huge stack.
In Live Poker, anyone who checks the nuts ON THE RIVER is usually colluding, aka "same-village". It's cheating, nothing less.
Never, ever, check down the nuts on the river.
You may only get a few hundred extra chips ouit of it, but in tourney play, every chip counts.
It is ok to check down if you only have partially hit.
Next time, 200 lines of 'I must never check the nuts' will be in order.
What is the nuts post flop is not always the nuts on the river.
Also, it is generally frowned upon in DYM games.
Although still nothing wrong with betting the absolute nuts even here.
It lets the other guy know that you have it.
Yes DYM is different to a "regular" tourney. You should not bet in a DYM bubble (well, you can with the absolute nuts, but it makes no difference either way), however you can do in "regular" tournies as gaining chips makes a difference to your final outcome.
Therefore, not betting with the nuts in a "regular" tournie would smell of collusion.
Cash bubble, should have folded to my re raise!!!!
You must have known you were in a a race at best.
The idea of the checking down a hand when someone else is all in, is obviously to reduce the odds of the short stack staying in. However if you have the nuts then you know the short stack is going out, you dont need the help of 2 or more players. Your bet makes no difference to the actual outcome that all but the short stack was trying to achieve.
However those who bet when they have 5th pair and gets everyone to fold, thus allowing the short stack to stay in cos they hit 4th pair, should be forced to go on potty duty for a week at the Orford household
Aski
i would bet here.I think if you bet here with the nuts and everyone sees the hand,they cant say you were wrong to do so.I would never bet into a dry side pot with nothing,thats just silly.But with the nuts,every time
The issue with the betting in this situation comes about when people bet with weak hands just to try to win the pot and end up trebling the short stack up.But if you are sat with the nuts then bet it everyday of the week and twice on sundays.
Your opponent will probably fold but as long as you win the hand then he wont be too bothered.In any tourny laddering up is important but you dont want to do it at the cost of chips which you can use to get even higher up the ladder.