In Response to Re: DYM spot (please move to clinc) : ty m8, at last,someone has actually given this some credence and is prepared to at least 'investigate' my thoughts. i never said that the rng is rigged,or suggested it,that would be wrong,wouldn't it. i gave my opinion and that was that i thought that when someone held KK an Ace would flop 'about' 50% of the time,that's all. i look forward to 'your findings' buddy and thanks dev Posted by devonfish5
I may be really confused here Devon lol so please excuse me if I'm being really stupid.
The laws of probability state that an Ace will not come on the flop 50% over a long enough sample, that is a fact. So if Sky's software is not completely random and does not align with true randomness, then you must be saying it's rigged.
Unless you're just saying that basically, during your DYMs, you 'ran bad' and the A came on the flop 50% of time? If that is what you're saying, then I believe you (although there's always some selective memory in these spots) that this happened but to change your game because of it is a mistake. I can tell you that the other night I got it in preflop in cash with AA v JJ and lost, but that's never gonna stop me getting AA in pre.
In Response to Re: DYM spot (please move to clinc) : Oh dear, it's the actions hands to induce action arguement lol. Few points... 1) When an A comes, that doesn't mean they have it 2) It's probably the worst card to induce action cos most people won't put much in the pot with KK when an Ace is out, so it would have the opposite effect. If they wanted action wouldn't they just deal the other person AA and put out a blank flop? 3) If you genuinely believe the site is rigged, why would you choose to play here? Posted by Lambert180
i never said that this site or any other is rigged Paul i was simply giving my opinion on something that i'd noticed during my recent challenge. i think that some of the things that i have mentioned have possibly been taken the wrong way,which is a shame. i only came to this post to offer my opinion on a certain hand that had been played,where that player was asking/seeking some advice,which i gave, and to the best of my ability. i did not come here looking or seeking an argument with anyone. if i have offended anyone,then i am sorry,and apologise. clearly we have a difference of opinion here and that probably won't change. i think it best if we leave it now and move on. yours sincerely devonfish5.
hi jams, how you have played this hand is exactly how many players would play it, a 3x raise pre-flop then check and fold to that bet post -flop. and it's not the best way that you could play it. you have basically lost 300 chips holding KK the second best pre-flop hand available to you. that is about 1/7 or 14% of your chips when you have KK it is likely that an ace will appear on the flop about 50% of the time. a better way to play the hand and the same goes for QQ here too,would be; min raise pre-flop so 100 opponent calls the 100 pot is now 350 you obviously don't like that Ace on flop, but there are 350 chips to play for,and it doesn't automatically mean that your opponent has to have an Ace himself,although it is likely likely he could. you now bet 150/200 something around there,if your opponent has the Ace he will probably just call you here. if he doesn't have it,he will probably fold,thinking that you have one yourself. you then win the 350 chips. if your opponent does have the Ace as you suspected and has called your 150/200 bet ok. turn card comes,no king...you now check opponent probably bets and you now fold. you have lost 250/300 chips in total. but you are no worse off and you could have won the hand and 350 chips if as i said,he didn't have the Ace which he won't have some of the time. if the blinds had been bigger here say 200/400 (even 150/300 that's 450 chips about 20-25%) then there are 600 chips 'up for grabs' that is about 30% of your stack...you want those chips.they would put you chip leader. you could now simply go 'all-in' here,pre-flop. it is most likely everyone will fold.great that's what you want. you have won all those chips with no risk. someone would need a 'good hand' to call you. any Ace rag should fold. far better than having to play out the hand and seeing that horrible Ace. ps; i re-wrote this as i wasn't particularly happy with my original post. :)dev pps;as played here by yourself jams, post flop.there are 750 chips 'up for grabs' bet 200/300 and try to win them,hoping opponent has missed his hand and folds if he has an ACE,or pretends he has,and either calls or re-raises your bet,you then have to fold at some point,i think. Posted by devonfish5
Thanky you for taking the time to reply to this Dev. If we min raise are we not in danger of getting multiple callers? if you see an A on the flop with 3way action its almost certain that somebody is playing 1. My thought were if i bet fold here it leaves me with a slightly less than 8 bb stack. Can we not check acept we will be bluffed a cetain % of the time but as we are oop let it go still surviving in the torunament with a larger stack?
LOL - sorry this is funny tho. Just had KK in the bb in the £11 super stack.... I raise a limper he calls. flop comes A K x. all the money goes in I double up vs A10.
In Response to Re: DYM spot (please move to clinc) : I may be really confused here Devon lol so please excuse me if I'm being really stupid. The laws of probability state that an Ace will not come on the flop 50% over a long enough sample, that is a fact. So if Sky's software is not completely random and does not align with true randomness, then you must be saying it's rigged. Unless you're just saying that basically, during your DYMs, you 'ran bad' and the A came on the flop 50% of time? If that is what you're saying, then I believe you (although there's always some selective memory in these spots) that this happened but to change your game because of it is a mistake. I can tell you that the other night I got it in preflop in cash with AA v JJ and lost, but that's never gonna stop me getting AA in pre. Posted by Lambert180
i shouldn't really reply here Paul especially after my previous post,but i will, i was simply making my opinion known and that was,again, whenever a player had KK an Ace 'seemed' to flop 'about' 50% of the time. i am not going to get into any debate concerning the rng as it is clearly a 'taboo' subject here at sky poker. also,changing my game was not 'a mistake'as you put it,quite the contrary in fact,it was a factor in my winning of a thousand pounds,oh... ok,£500 then lols that's all Paul best wishes
LOL - sorry this is funny tho. Just had KK in the bb in the £11 super stack.... I raise a limper he calls. flop comes A K x. all the money goes in I double up vs A10. 1/1 so far Dev ;-) Posted by percival09
In Response to Re: DYM spot (please move to clinc) : Thanky you for taking the time to reply to this Dev. If we min raise are we not in danger of getting multiple callers? if you see an A on the flop with 3way action its almost certain that somebody is playing 1. My thought were if i bet fold here it leaves me with a slightly less than 8 bb stack. Can we not check acept we will be bluffed a cetain % of the time but as we are oop let it go still surviving in the torunament with a larger stack? Posted by jams88
hi jams i'll try and answer 1 thing at a time here, firstly thank you for thanking me. yes,if we min raise we are in some danger of getting multiple callers. but you need to weigh up what is the best line to take here. if, and let's not go there again, lol, you see an Ace on the flop,it doesn't really matter if you are 3 way or more or heads up with just 1 player,you don't like it,and fear the worst. you were right not to bet then fold as your stack isn't big enough for that. yes,of course you can check allowing your opponent the opportunity to possibly bluff you, but if you had made some even little bet there,then they could have possibly been your 750 chips. that is why only betting 100 pre-flop instead of the 300 that you bet,and then betting the turn yourself would be a better line to take,as you would have still only lost the same chips.
yes DYM is all about surviving but you also need to be more aggressive when you decide to play a hand. best wishes
In Response to Re: DYM spot (please move to clinc) : i shouldn't really reply here Paul especially after my previous post,but i will, i was simply making my opinion known and that was,again, whenever a player had KK an Ace 'seemed' to flop 'about' 50% of the time. i am not going to get into any debate concerning the rng as it is clearly a 'taboo' subject here at sky poker. also,changing my game was not 'a mistake'as you put it,quite the contrary in fact,it was a factor in my winning of a thousand pounds,oh... ok,£500 then lols that's all Paul best wishes dev Posted by devonfish5
I really think some people are missing the point.I may be wrong Dev,but you are saying you have found an ace comes on the flop 50% of the time,for people to say this is wrong is bs.You are not saying anything about rigged or anything it is just something you have noticed whether it be through selective memory or not.Some people wanna just make noise for the sake of it and think other peoples views are worthless.Of course an ace shouldn't land on the flop 50% of the time but if it is what has happened to you then that is how you have to call it.
Its about 23%. In the long term it prob does even itself out to that. You prob just dont remember the times u had KK on a bricked flop when everyone folds to the cbet. Just the great way our mind remembers things.
Exactly. I don't doubt Dev for a second that this is what happened to him, but to give advice based on results is bad IMO.
It would be like me advising someone to call a shove with 58o because the last 5 times I've done it, I've won. Obviously an extreme example, but past results have zero bearing on what is or is not a +EV move
people only remember when an A flops when you have KK because its the only overcard that can come.. they sure don't care as much when they run into a set though rofl
sets are like the bain of my life lol. Dunno why I just get really uncomfortable sometimes playing AA or KK even QQ out of position. Its like ive got this permanent paranoia that Im walking into a set but hate slowing down incase I give the opponent the chance to take the pot away
@Dev - It always feels like when you hold a pair, overcards - like an ace come more often than they do Just how our brains work ) "Grrrrrrrrrrr always an ace on flop when I have KK !" Like saying when i HOLD 88 a 9 always hits the flop 50% of the time because if you feel this way about an ace then you have to think about all the other cards that must also hit the flop 50% of the time If you beleive this theory then if you run the maths on all the cards hitting the flop 50% of the time, then it's just not possible
stay chilled Dev )
+ it is very possbiel over a smaller enough volume that the Ace will flop 50% of the time ) So Dev could be very corect in his recent findings )
As an ex Maths teacher it was nice to get my thinking cap on for this calc Dev but I don't guarantee it as its been a while since I was doing game theory and probability calculations.
Comments
The laws of probability state that an Ace will not come on the flop 50% over a long enough sample, that is a fact. So if Sky's software is not completely random and does not align with true randomness, then you must be saying it's rigged.
Unless you're just saying that basically, during your DYMs, you 'ran bad' and the A came on the flop 50% of time? If that is what you're saying, then I believe you (although there's always some selective memory in these spots) that this happened but to change your game because of it is a mistake. I can tell you that the other night I got it in preflop in cash with AA v JJ and lost, but that's never gonna stop me getting AA in pre.
i was simply giving my opinion on something that i'd noticed during my recent challenge.
i think that some of the things that i have mentioned have possibly been taken the wrong way,which is a shame.
i only came to this post to offer my opinion on a certain hand that had been played,where that player was asking/seeking some advice,which i gave, and to the best of my ability.
i did not come here looking or seeking an argument with anyone.
if i have offended anyone,then i am sorry,and apologise.
clearly we have a difference of opinion here and that probably won't change.
i think it best if we leave it now and move on.
yours sincerely
devonfish5.
ps;no hard feelings,i hope
My thought were if i bet fold here it leaves me with a slightly less than 8 bb stack. Can we not check acept we will be bluffed a cetain % of the time but as we are oop let it go still surviving in the torunament with a larger stack?
especially after my previous post,but i will,
i was simply making my opinion known and that was,again, whenever a player had KK an Ace 'seemed' to flop 'about' 50% of the time.
i am not going to get into any debate concerning the rng as it is clearly a 'taboo' subject here at sky poker.
also,changing my game was not 'a mistake'as you put it,quite the contrary in fact,it was a factor in my winning of a thousand pounds,oh... ok,£500 then lols
that's all Paul
best wishes
dev
lols
dev
i'll try and answer 1 thing at a time here,
firstly thank you for thanking me.
yes,if we min raise we are in some danger of getting multiple callers.
but you need to weigh up what is the best line to take here.
if, and let's not go there again, lol, you see an Ace on the flop,it doesn't really matter if you are 3 way or more or heads up with just 1 player,you don't like it,and fear the worst.
you were right not to bet then fold as your stack isn't big enough for that.
yes,of course you can check allowing your opponent the opportunity to possibly bluff you, but if you had made some even little bet there,then they could have possibly been your 750 chips.
that is why only betting 100 pre-flop instead of the 300 that you bet,and then betting the turn yourself would be a better line to take,as you would have still only lost the same chips.
yes DYM is all about surviving but you also need to be more aggressive when you decide to play a hand.
best wishes
dev
It would be like me advising someone to call a shove with 58o because the last 5 times I've done it, I've won. Obviously an extreme example, but past results have zero bearing on what is or is not a +EV move
give up
depends how you play DYM's but 3x is ok imo
if you opening more than lower to 2.2
@Dev - It always feels like when you hold a pair, overcards - like an ace come more often than they do
Just how our brains work ) "Grrrrrrrrrrr always an ace on flop when I have KK !"
Like saying when i HOLD 88 a 9 always hits the flop 50% of the time
because if you feel this way about an ace then you have to think about all the other cards that must also hit the flop 50% of the time
If you beleive this theory then if you run the maths on all the cards hitting the flop 50% of the time, then it's just not possible
stay chilled Dev )
+ it is very possbiel over a smaller enough volume that the Ace will flop 50% of the time )
So Dev could be very corect in his recent findings )