Velocity tourney what do we do here?

IDONKCALLU

i thought i was ahead because i thought a q would 4 bet me pre sigh 

rancid

Just seen this thread ) GT does have a go at IDCU like a school kid that keeps making mistakes )
IDCU, think you over acting - sorry I mean over reacting ! )
if we 3 bet, we should be happy to get it in on the flop because we should know that oppo never has AQ/AK but draws and worse pairs or Ax's.
readless no 3 bet pre FWIW espcially if oppo been opening a lot
all thid is because of stack size + no reads

But if you think about the hand and oppo's continuation range once you 3 bet and your oop
Your looking at the possibility of losing a lot of chips to AQ/AK

If you know oppo will raise/call wide then you can 3 bet to c bet here imo
but that also means you don't have to have AJ to do this, ATC will suffice
but w/o reads we are just playing blind fella

essentially your just hoping oppo is bad and holds A10, probably got A5 BUT HEY HO
If we assume all players are just really bad, then it doesn't help us formulate our plays because we end up hitting brick walls when randoms turn over aq/ak and we like WTF you have to be bad !

Would be nice if you has seen oppo stacks with worse Ax's in the past for example ....

gl

grantorino

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

Just seen this thread ) GT does have a go at IDCU like a school kid that keeps making mistakes ) 
Posted by rancid

Really don't think I had a go here at all, just responded to his 3 points. But if you do think that idcu apologies, wasn't meant to be personal or insulting  in any way, just disagree with your reasoning

rancid

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here? : Really don't think I had a go here at all, just responded to his 3 points. But if you do think that idcu apologies, wasn't meant to be personal or insulting  in any way, just disagree with your reasoning
Posted by grantorino

You have posted a few things that I read and thought - that's going to rub IDCU up the wroung way, that is all.
Nothing major but your just popping stuff at him, so no wonder IDCU is taking what you say a bit personal.

I think you know what I am saying GT -)
To be fair IDCU can be annoying )

Lambert180

To be fair, I don't think GT has said anything out of line, and I think is input is fantastic. I'd be really disappointed to see him change (doubt he will though) because of IDCU. Sometimes I need telling straight that I've played a hand like a complete idiot.

I just don't think IDCU likes being told he's wrong.

rancid

just little comments like "lol overpair"

nothing constructive - just little digs )

grantorino

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

just little comments like "lol overpair" nothing constructive - just little digs )
Posted by rancid

Wat???????

That comment read "shove, lol at overpair". Now idk what way you picked it up but was meant to mean laugh at villains obv overpair as u stack him with 2p. 

Sorry bout that, must be more careful

EDIT: I wont be posting in this thread again,  I apologise if idcu felt any of my posts were having a pop at him, they werent intended in that way, in general my posts are intended to make people think. I'm not bothered by any of his comments, this has gone far enough imo. Obv this isnt my thread but I think mods should close it as its gone way off topic

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

i thought i was ahead because i thought a q would 4 bet me pre sigh 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

Everything about the 3 bet pre was awful

rancid

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here? : Wat??????? That comment read "shove, lol at overpair". Now idk what way you picked it up but was meant to mean laugh at villains obv overpair as u stack him with 2p.  Sorry bout that, must be more careful EDIT: I wont be posting in this thread again,  I apologise if idcu felt any of my posts were having a pop at him, they werent intended in that way, in general my posts are intended to make people think. I'm not bothered by any of his comments, this has gone far enough imo. Obv this isnt my thread but I think mods should close it as its gone way off topic
Posted by grantorino

just saying how it reads and how it's obviously coming across to IDCU even though you have good intentions
you give great advice m8, IDCU is a just a little sensitive and taking some of you comments to heart
anyway stop getting your kickers in a twist, not like I have accused you of war crimes is it ! )

you can't deny your having little pops at him about some of his posts in good humour I may add, cmon get lively

percival09

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here? : Everything about the 3 bet pre was awful
Posted by patwalshh

lol how is everything about the 3b pre awful?

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here? : lol how is everything about the 3b pre awful?
Posted by percival09

I don't mean to come across as confrontational at all, this is just my opinion. 

- The sizing is bad

- Your playing a marginal hand out of position 

- Your only folding out worse hands

percival09

Not at all, we all have opinons .. game wouldn't be worth playing if we didn't. Just don't think it's that bad at all, sure you might not do it yourself but it's certainly not a bad play. 

-sizing I think is fine - can make it a bit bigger but w.e not a huge problem imo

-you say nothing about playing a marginal hand in a 3b pot out of position, so I presume you just fold pre??

-your best point but I don't always agree - although it isn't ideal as hero doesn't have reads, well he doesnt seem to, I still think villain can flat w/ worse enough of the time to make it profitable - but yh ofc you have a valid point.

Q for you and GT - Do you 3b AQ here?

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

Not at all, we all have opinons .. game wouldn't be worth playing if we didn't. Just don't think it's that bad at all, sure you might not do it yourself but it's certainly not a bad play.  -sizing I think is fine - can make it a bit bigger but w.e not a huge problem imo -you say nothing about playing a marginal hand in a 3b pot out of position, so I presume you just fold pre?? -your best point but I don't always agree - although it isn't ideal as hero doesn't have reads, well he doesnt seem to, I still think villain can flat w/ worse enough of the time to make it profitable - but yh ofc you have a valid point. Q for you and GT - Do you 3b AQ here?
Posted by percival09

To start, I complete agree. 

--

- I just flat pre a lot of the time

- Maybe the 3 bet sizing is boarderline okayish with this type of hand because he will think he has 'pot odds' to call with hands like A7. 

- I'd much rather 3 bet hands like J10suited here, because of the exact way this hand turned out. We hit our ace and get completely lost with our hand strength. 

percival09

BUMP for whenever GT comes on ... I want u to answer my question about AQ!!

grantorino

yes I 3bet AQ.

AQ />AJ though, to state the obvious

percival09

AQ isn't much above AJ tho. If you're 3betting AQ for value surely you can do it w/ aj too? there's v.little between them

grantorino

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

AQ isn't much above AJ tho. If you're 3betting AQ for value surely you can do it w/ aj too? there's v.little between them
Posted by percival09

If you 3bet AJ, theres not much diference to AT and so on down along to 32. You have to draw your line somewhere

It depends on ranges you give obv, but it plays significantly better v a tight continuing range 

pr1nnyraid

In Response to Re: Velocity tourney what do we do here?:

AQ isn't much above AJ tho. If you're 3betting AQ for value surely you can do it w/ aj too? there's v.little between them
Posted by percival09

As has been said the line needs to be drawn somewhere.. i do also think its legitimate to argue that AQ will dominate more of a standard 3bet calling range than AJ, eg lots of KQ's AJ's Q10's. Might not seem like much of a significant combo of hands but seeing as 3bet pots are often won before showdown.. when you do get to showdown with AQ the hands above are the hands that will turn up very often so by dominating even a few extra combos of hands can make a big dif to long term chips won. 

I think people are misconceiving why GT or anybody advocates flatting AJ, I don't think they are questioning whether a 3bet is +ev, just saying that flatting is MOST +ev. The variables needed to prove either opinion FACT are so wide and unavailable unless you are watching live that this dicussion is only valuable as opinions. People give an opinion and back it up / question opposing opinions..

This brings me on to IDCU & Rancid interpreting / misinterpreting posts. we arent here to blow eachother kisses and idcu was wrong to talk about and question GT's game as that is the sort of comment that offends / provokes ppl. For obvious reasons the comment was disregarded. 

percival09

I think it's close between what's more +ev out of 3betting aj here and flatting