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poker is still classed as a sport, every sport has skill. Tbh its not just bad players that say luck and good players say skills, we all no poker is really about 85% luck and 15% skill, we just dont mind ignoring this fact when were winning. Thats what running bad is , running bad is getting bad luck with the way cards come. Every hand u lost down to bad play? dont think so
This is why people say cash poker is more skillful - o no not that debate again !
o but I would say, playing cash requires a broader skill set )
If you did a challenge with some of the top players on the site, Scotty77, Coxy, Lol_Raise etc etc... you can pick whatever format you like.
Say you both are given unlimited BRs and you either both play 50,000 cash hands, or 500 MTTs, or 500 SnGs, both playing at the same stakes, I'm willing to bet you would almost certainly be completely crushed in terms of profit even over such a small sample. Now are these players just luckier than you? Or is it that they have more skill?
Bad players blame their poor results on bad luck. Sometimes your short term results are bad luck, and I moan about a bit of runbad like most people do, but long term I know it evens out. Essentially, if you play cash poker for 3 hours, there is zero you can learn by just looking at profit/loss for the session. You could have played terrible and run like god, played fantastic and ran awful, or anything in the middle.
Well mathematically luck doesn't exist as eventually every eventsie paticular cards occurring WILL happen.
Game theory looks at strategies to be as successful as you can be which is called optimal play/equilibrium plays.
Unfortunately, humans play and they change things as their play isn't optimal at times!!! Consequently, different strategies exist to fight with the different strategies of different types of player. You can make a mathematically sound bet based on the pot odds but it doesn't mean you are going to win THAT hand just that in the long term its a correct play.
As for skill, then yes there are plays based on your experience of another player. You think that when you bet big to rep the Ace thats just hit the turn then he will fold. Well that's making a judgement call. Its the honing of that judgement that people will call skill as it needs experience to make this judgement successfully.
Yes you can easily beat Phil Ivey in heads up. just go all-in every hand. Its an accepted strategy when you play a much 'better' player. He has to get a hand to call and no matter what he and you may have then you still have equity in the pot. Play him over a number of games and its a different matter as he has experience and can put a wider array of strategies into play.
Whatever it is , it's a cracking game ....................frustrating at times too! Agreed?
Yes poker has a level of skill to it...much of it can be learnt( hands to play in various positions, optimal plays for all-ins relative to your stack sizes etc) but its that level of experience that comes from when to bluff, who to bluff etc that people look upon as 'skill'. Its cutting thro' the swathe of variables and coming up with a plan that tends to sort the top players from the lesser ones in my opinion.
Good laugh though m8...cheers for the banter ...thoroughly enjoyed it!!
There are so many easily accessible tools that a good /> player can utilise to relatively easily improve their game these days.
Luck is obviously a factor in poker. Its why non standardised mainstream players can be so tricky (using this term rather than the typical ones
I sit and watch people 4+x, over min and flat and it just makes my teeth itch. But its almost impossible to explain to people why its potentially bad (and to be frank, why would you?). Everyone is on a curve.
I pretty much hold the: "A good player needs less luck to win", and "good players create and capitalize more upon their luck than a bad player" would maxims
89o / 54o / 3to / jto / q4s / 9js / 42o / 78s / t9o / 67o / q3o / 26o / 28o / 32s / 9to / 56o / qko / 83o / t6o / 22 / 3ko / 88 / 73o / 49o / a8s / 24o / 32o / 4qo / 8qs / q3o / 43o / j6s / j2o / a5o / 53o / k2o / 6qo / t7o / 34o / 8qo / t6o / a6o / 89s / 2js / 79s / 2qo / 9jo i nearly fell asleep at this stage and stopped writing them down, I hung on taking what I could now and then managed to get a few chips when hung on in drawing with a5o 23 on flop 4 on river but pure luck and bets managable til hit on river went all in, pure luck as one decent bet over 200 and i was gone faster than IDONKCALLU DONKS YOU lol he was on same table and eff it was grinding play but enjoyable all the same. Then the tables balanced and a 25000 chipper is now on my left, happy days I thought, I take all his chips and bobs your uncle, I come across this monster hand on small blind and think right lets see what your made of so i raised with my pocket 55 and he raised managable so i called, a22 on flop, mmm 2 pair he just bullying i check hebets i think I call 3 on turn mmmm gut straight but 2 pairs anyway so im in 4 on river, all in with a straight he calls as he has pocket aa and house from the flop lol just not getting cards and wasnt my day and came up against a huge one, but, i congrat him and was on my merry way, still dissolussioned though as I couldnt hit a card on flop anytime i stayed in for one, yet he dealt aa and hits a and fills on flop, i stayed in for as many flops as i could throught the game and ended up 16th I think, not once did I hit a pair. this has been happening a very lot recently and as a result I will only be playing in the afternoon league for fun from now on as I really dont trust the dealer but can handle it for a bit of banter and craic in the afternoon. On the upside I did withdraw 25 euro initial deposit before hols and only lost the free tenner so I lost nothing and gained good friends in the league. On the luck skill I would say 60 /40 skill to luck and i bet you a tenner i am right lol On a different note, if any of you have an account to bet on irish dogs there is a dog running on sat night in Mullingar that I bred, won last week by 6 lengths, gone up 4 grades but expect him to smash them sat night as has his box too and last week was first ever time round track and it hardest track to run in Ireland without being round before so expect him to burn it up with top open class run; and the name of the dog is....................... play the afternoon league tomorrow and you may find out as will be letting the lads know : )
And breathe !