Feedback please - Mini Mains

Sky_Poker

Hi everyone

First of all thank you all for your support during UKOPS, what a great series!

Just something to get your thoughts on quickly please...

One of the great successes of the series was the Mini Mains, which generated some really good prize pools alone. For example the event last Sunday reached a fantastic prizepool of £3,900 for the £5.50 buy-in. Normally the Minis have guarantees ranging from £1,000 to £1,200 for the 'standard' £3.30 buy ins.

So the question is really what would you prefer? To be totally honest, the extra 20p per player for us does not swing any decision, but we do like to be able to offer nice prize pools and the £5.50 tournaments generated a lot of interest - striking a good balance of affordability and prizepools.

Of course we'll never get a 100% consensus on this but it would to see views.

TommyD

I voted for £3.30.  I still think the mini should represent 10% of the main so I'm all for keeping the Sunday night one at £5.50 and to be the 'big mini.'  After the other changes in the schedule I think these should be kept at the lower price in be inclusive for as many people as possible.

However I am happy with them to go up for festivals such as the UKOPS as long as they have a decent satty structure along side.  But these should occur rarely IMO.

MAXALLY

I think they should stay at the lower end...ie 10%. With the recent 'loss' of the smaller B/H tournies/cheapest DYM's on here, any price increase will look like another swipe at the smaller BR players which IMHO will be counter productive over the longer term.

If, like normal, the increase is implemented regardless, there should also be some improvement to the mini's structure and pay outs in line with the mains. For example, a 500/1000 blind level, 12 min blinds in the deepstack, plus the pay out table should reflect the same as the main.

Sky_Dave

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

I think they should stay at the lower end...ie 10%. With the recent 'loss' of the smaller B/H tournies/cheapest DYM's on here, any price increase will look like another swipe at the smaller BR players which IMHO will be counter productive over the longer term. If, like normal, the increase is implemented regardless, there should also be some improvement to the mini's structure and pay outs in line with the mains. For example, a 500/1000 blind level, 12 min blinds in the deepstack, plus the pay out table should reflect the same as the main.
Posted by MAXALLY

I don't think the converstion would have been opened if this were Sky_Poker's mindset, Alan. It's a genuine question where opinions will very much be taken into account.

Kiwini4u

Voted for the £3.30, but like Tommy I agree that the mini should be 10% of the main so would be happy to pay the extra £2.20 when the Main buy in is £55.00

FlyingDagg

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

I voted for £3.30.  I still think the mini should represent 10% of the main so I'm all for keeping the Sunday night one at £5.50 and to be the 'big mini.'  After the other changes in the schedule I think these should be kept at the lower price in be inclusive for as many people as possible. However I am happy with them to go up for festivals such as the UKOPS as long as they have a decent satty structure along side.  But these should occur rarely IMO.
Posted by TommyD

Totally agree. I will pay £3-30 regularly for the normal mini. No objection to £5-50 for things such as UKOPS. 

spurs_13

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

Voted for the £3.30, but like Tommy I agree that the mini should be 10% of the main so would be happy to pay the extra £2.20 when the Main buy in is £55.00
Posted by Kiwini4u

Absolutely +1 to this

Wacko90

I dont see why everyone wants the smaller option. The money from the minis for winning is usually somewhere around 300£, compared to this week where in the extreme circumstances it was near 1000£. The site needs to grow, make them £5.50 and your in with a shot of winning £600+, well worth it IMO Just my opinion.

Slykllist

Regardless of which option is decided on (I voted for £5.50 but don't have a really strong opinion on this) I'd really like to see the payout structures used in the UKOPS implemented across the board in the minis and the mains

scouse_red

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

I dont see why everyone wants the smaller option. The money from the minis for winning is usually somewhere around 300£, compared to this week where in the extreme circumstances it was near 1000£. The site needs to grow, make them £5.50 and your in with a shot of winning £600+, well worth it IMO Just my opinion.
Posted by Wacko90

a lot of players on a tight BR and I include myself here Wacko, simply can't stretch to £5.50 every night of the week, many of the popular £2.30 BH's in the evening have already disappeared from the schedule, and it would give even fewer opportunities for the lower end players (tomorrows bigger tourney players) to experience low price tourneys with bigger fields.

Thanks to Sky Poker for opening up the debate.....don't think you'd get that on any other site

so to sum up +1 to TommyD

MAXALLY

I remember the days when Wacko used to play the £2.20 @ 2.20.

To Sky Dave - Ok, fair enough, but would like to see some of those voting for the increase to say the reasons why like those saying keep it as it is.

Wacko90

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains : a lot of players on a tight BR and I include myself here Wacko, simply can't stretch to £5.50 every night of the week, many of the popular £2.30 BH's in the evening have already disappeared from the schedule, and it would give even fewer opportunities for the lower end players (tomorrows bigger tourney players) to experience low price tourneys with bigger fields. Thanks to Sky Poker for opening up the debate.....don't think you'd get that on any other site so to sum up +1 to TommyD
Posted by scouse_red

Apologies I didnt want to come across as being ignorant of the smaller BR players im certainly not, I remember the days when I was playing £2.20 mtts. But I still think for an extra £2.20 or what not a doubling of the prize money is worth it. If you can afford 3.30 then surely you can afford £5.50 right? 

SolarCarro

Another +1 TommyD

Loss of the 2.30BH other than 2005 game has limited my play to that and the odd mini, proper BRM keeps me at £2/3 limits

Dave

Sky_Poker

LOL, typical - as we write this the vote is 50:50 exactly with 16 votes each.

So we've decided we will do a trial (alternating days) which will be like this:

Tonight (Monday) = £3.30
Tuesday = £5.50
Wednesday = £3.30
Thursday = £5.50
Friday = £3.30
Satuday = £5.50
Sunday = £5.50 (as usual)

We'll then review next Monday (12th).

Thanks
Sky Poker

unknown_username

The Minis at the moment are pitched perfectly!

Low stakes players have the incentive to play against stronger players and improve their game
Higher stake players have the opportunity to go for the jackpot.

Why change something that's not broke?

The increased traffic during Ukops will bottom out.
When that happens If you've increased the tariffs to exclude players with small Bankrolls.
You may find the prizefund for minis decreases rather than increases. IMO

jonjo75

I think as Tommy said 10% is the right amount.




Perhaps there should be an option to vote for 10% of main buy in.

GaryQQQ

Stick to 10% imo, it works very well, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
I don't think increasing the buy-in by 67% neccesarily means the prize pool will also grow by 67%. The field will probably be smaller, the prize pool may grow a little, but not by much imo.

A smaller Mini field makes the Jackpot easier to win, I'm just pointing that out in case if affects the decision one way or the other.

IDONKCALLU

are the payout structure staying at 10 per cent like main n mini last nite in ukops big + 1 if they do 

rancid

I vote £5 because I can afford it

If I couldn't, I would vote for £3


hope this helps )

FlyingDagg

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains : Apologies I didnt want to come across as being ignorant of the smaller BR players im certainly not, I remember the days when I was playing £2.20 mtts. But I still think for an extra £2.20 or what not a doubling of the prize money is worth it. If you can afford 3.30 then surely you can afford £5.50 right? 
Posted by Wacko90

Not on top of what I normally play. I'm another player on a VERY limited income although my BR is reasonable. And it's called good BR managemnt. Everyone has their limit. If you went to buy a house and you told the estate agent you had £400,000 what would you say if he said surely you can afford £500,000? Different amounts I know but the same principle.

SoLack

Still 50:50, but I do think you have made a quick decision to half implement the change.  Most of the comments state good reasons for keeping the lower buy in, and although the votes are level that is hardly a mandate for change.  I don't think reviewing after one week is going to prove anything either way, and even if the numbers are maintained on the higher buy-in days it does not take into account the long term disaffection that the change could cause.  I do not think many people will be disaffected by maintaining the current buy in structure whereas the opposite is true if yoiu do put them up.

One thing that does need changing imo is that the mini shd mirror the main - at the moment the Friday ME is a rebuy and the mini not (I realise this was originally down to Maxally indifference to rebuys but time to change methinks).  The opposite is now true of Saturday, where the main is no longer a rebuy, but the mini still is. 

waller02

I notice there was no request for feedback when it came to DOUBLING the buy in of the rebuy open......

Jeffter

Why not have a Main a Mini £5 and a MINIMINI at £3 and let the players choose on the night - and perhaps the jackpot could be won for winning any two of the three - just a thought

percival09

I much preferred each mini in the ukops compared to each of the regular minis, BY MILES. 

Kiwini4u

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

Still 50:50, but I do think you have made a quick decision to half implement the change.  Most of the comments state good reasons for keeping the lower buy in, and although the votes are level that is hardly a mandate for change.  I don't think reviewing after one week is going to prove anything either way, and even if the numbers are maintained on the higher buy-in days it does not take into account the long term disaffection that the change could cause.  I do not think many people will be disaffected by maintaining the current buy in structure whereas the opposite is true if yoiu do put them up. One thing that does need changing imo is that the mini shd mirror the main - at the moment the Friday ME is a rebuy and the mini not (I realise this was originally down to Maxally indifference to rebuys but time to change methinks).  The opposite is now true of Saturday, where the main is no longer a rebuy, but the mini still is. 
Posted by SoLack

I think Sky are like my local Council, ask for peoples opinion on a change they they have already decided to impliment anyway.  They didn't even wait 24 hours before making the changes.

belsibub

Ask a question then under four & a half hours later implement changes. Just LOL.

JONONZIE

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

Spot on flying dragon I don't mind playing the minis (especially if my bank roll has taken a hammering lol) my wife like many players who is not a strong player but like's to play means  the minis offer a great opportunity to play poker at a reasonable level in fact we play together in this to see who can last the longestst (she normally wins) poker is not just for the more serious player but also the casual ones that's why we play sky poker as at the moment sky give us this. 

Tikay10

Good morning.

The thread , & feedback, is a bit lop-sided!

My input is not exactly unbiased, for obvious reasons, but....

We all have the option of saying nothing, of course, but it's the nature of things that we comment if we do NOT like, & don't comment if we do, because the latter is the default, the "normal".
 
So, just for the sake of debate, & because, the older I get, the more these things intrigue & fascinate me, here are two facts about this thread as of now.

Negative Posts (as in "no thanks, we do not like"), approx 20.

Positive Posts ("we like the idea of bigger buy-in") 2.

A few Posts don't count - those by Sky Poker, or Dave, for example.

So, give or take a few % points, 90% AGAINST bigger buy-ins. Pretty conclusive, you'd suggest.
 
Now look at the voting.

Currently, 27 voted for £3.30, & 33 voted for £5.50!
 
How do you explain that? And if you were the Business, how would you interpret that?

Interesting, 'innit?!

jams88

I have been lucky enough in the last month or so that i can now afford the higher £5.50 buyin and i did enjoy the UKOPS series. That said in my opinion the mini should be for everybody and i think that £3.30 gives more people the chance to play. I think it should be kept at £3.30 and boosted for special events such as the recent UKOPS.

EDIT: i also don't believe the guarentee effects many peoples descion to play as asfar as i am aware which ever guarentee has been set on the mini it regularly surpasses it. But in the intrest of those that it does effect if sky crunched the numbers do they think it would be possible to offer a £1500 guarentee on the mini at the £3.30 BI as it seems to be breaking this anyway more often than not.

TommyD

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

Good morning. The thread , & feedback, is a bit lop-sided! My input is not exactly unbiased, for obvious reasons, but.... We all have the option of saying nothing, of course, but it's the nature of things that we comment if we do NOT like, & don't comment if we do, because the latter is the default, the "normal".   So, just for the sake of debate, & because, the older I get, the more these things intrigue & fascinate me, here are two facts about this thread as of now. Negative Posts (as in "no thanks, we do not like"), approx 20. Positive Posts ("we like the idea of bigger buy-in") 2. A few Posts don't count - those by Sky Poker, or Dave, for example. So, give or take a few % points, 90% AGAINST bigger buy-ins. Pretty conclusive, you'd suggest.   Now look at the voting. Currently, 27 voted for £3.30, & 33 voted for £5.50!   How do you explain that? And if you were the Business, how would you interpret that? Interesting, 'innit?!
Posted by Tikay10

Taking the first part, some people are worried about expressing a view which is contrary to that taken by a few of the long standing posters.  While their shyness is understandable I feel it's misplaced.  As I have stated from the outset I am against the change, however if someone expresses a contrary opinion and gets unfair treatment from another poster, reg or otherwise, I would defend that person's right to that opinion regardless if I agreed with it.  Some people get shy and worried about people's opinion of them in spots like this.  Not me though, double denim is still cool and Jammy Dodgers are the worst biscuits I have had the misfortune to purchase.

Now the second part.  I don't think you can give equal weight to the votes as you can the post.  Yes I know this argument leads to support for my point of view so feel free everyone to pick it apart.  The point is a person who takes the time to post will clearly show if they have considered the question in a balanced way.  Not all posts should have equal weight either of course, it's up to 'those who should' to weigh up all of the feedback.  Now with the click button voting you don't always know if everyone has even read the question fully or has just seen, for instance, 'bigger buy ins, I like bigger buy ins, I'll click yes.'  Obviously a decent amount of weight should go to the button votes but the smaller the sample size and the closer the vote, in my opinion the more 'those who should' should consider stronger the views expressed in the thread.

jams88

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains:

In Response to Re: Feedback please - Mini Mains : Taking the first part, some people are worried about expressing a view which is contrary to that taken by a few of the long standing posters.  While their shyness is understandable I feel it's misplaced.  As I have stated from the outset I am against the change, however if someone expresses a contrary opinion and gets unfair treatment from another poster, reg or otherwise, I would defend that person's right to that opinion regardless if I agreed with it.  Some people get shy and worried about people's opinion of them in spots like this.  Not me though, double denim is still cool and Jammy Dodgers are the worst biscuits I have had the misfortune to purchase. Now the second part.  I don't think you can give equal weight to the votes as you can the post.  Yes I know this argument leads to support for my point of view so feel free everyone to pick it apart.  The point is a person who takes the time to post will clearly show if they have considered the question in a balanced way.  Not all posts should have equal weight either of course, it's up to 'those who should' to weigh up all of the feedback.  Now with the click button voting you don't always know if everyone has even read the question fully or has just seen, for instance, 'bigger buy ins, I like bigger buy ins, I'll click yes.'  Obviously a decent amount of weight should go to the button votes but the smaller the sample size and the closer the vote, in my opinion the more 'those who should' should consider stronger the views expressed in the thread.
Posted by TommyD

Tommy has clearly suffered a blow to the head, and as such his opinion should be considered invalid til such a time as he can see sense again