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NL10: QQ For 180BB
My first cash session in months and I'm break-even across three tables prior to this hand. My discipline has been lacking a bit and I've bet/folded a couple of rivers only to find my mouse pointer inexplicably finding the call button. *sigh*
I haven't played a huge number of hands with any of these opponents. However based on the hands I've seen at this table:
Noel has been aggressive and mainly seems to be playing a fairly tight range. He's turned over pocket pairs, suited connectors and high cards, all of which he's played aggressively when it's unopened to him. He hasn't shown a huge regard for position, though. He's bet/called once or twice and subsequently check/folded the flop. I guess we shouldn't be giving him a wide 4-betting range.
Liam has been passive, playing alot of hands and shows little sign that he has any understanding of position or stack size. I only recall seeing him raise once, showing a set on the flop. Quite a weak player, I'd say.
My image is probably very aggressive, particularly on my button. I've mainly shown down reasonable starting hands - apart from one excursion with J8 that I'd rather not talk about - and I've 3-bet in position a few times. I've also 3-bet out of position two or three times with premium hands but these have not gone to showdown so probably increase my aggro image.
It seems pretty bad to fold on this flop after calling the pre-flop 4-bet but how strong is the case for folding to that 4-bet? Given my image and the image of the caller, is it more difficult to find the fold or should I assume that the 4-better isn't considering those things and give him a super-tight range?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| BINLIDS | Small blind | £0.05 | £0.05 | £4.45 | |
| sowden03 | Big blind | £0.10 | £0.15 | £15.48 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Limper | Call | £0.10 | £0.25 | £3.84 | |
| Noel | Raise | £0.40 | £0.65 | £24.78 | |
| bustout44 | Fold | ||||
| BorinLoner | Raise | £1.20 | £1.85 | £16.71 | |
| Liam | Call | £1.15 | £3.00 | £3.30 | |
| sowden03 | Fold | ||||
| Limper | Fold | ||||
| Noel | Raise | £3.20 | £6.20 | £21.58 | |
| BorinLoner | Call | £2.40 | £8.60 | £14.31 | |
| Liam | All-in | £3.30 | £11.90 | £0.00 | |
| Noel | Call | £0.90 | £12.80 | £20.68 | |
| BorinLoner | Call | £0.90 | £13.70 | £13.41 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Noel | Bet | £6.00 | £19.70 | £14.68 | |
| BorinLoner | All-in | £13.41 | £33.11 | £0.00 | |
| Noel | Call | £7.41 | £40.52 | £7.27 | |
Comments
Maybe QQ, unlikely but possibly AK too.
My thoughts pre-flop were "Aha! You could 4-bet here with TT, JJ, AK, AQ because obviously I'm a lunatic and could have anything and you want to get this heads-up with Liam's range for stationing off... Well, I'm not falling for that, mister!"
Levelling myself perhaps? I do that alot.
once the guy raises then u raise then a cold call
then the original raiser then reraises tbh i be laying down qq here alot of times as rancid says 10 nl alot of abc players at this level so not many get out of line sounds nitty but im folding preflop
on this flop now your in the hand i am hating the shove
a) your folding a k a q now so not keeping bluffs in
b ) your only getting called by a better hand unless jacks which i very much doubt
in summary its a fold preflop for me the way the action has gone on the flop its deffo a call u want to keep bluffs in for u going all in your folding all ace highs
you cant fold on this flop how can you qq is not a set mining hand lol so on this flop its the nuts if u think guy has aa or kk then u fold preflop now the flop has come have to go with it
if u call preflop then fold the flop so your basically saying with qq ya set mining ?
if i call preflop and see this flop for me u have to go with it
He's not betting £6 on the flop then folding Ace-high for £7 into £33, either I would think. If he has AK, AQ, etc surely he's calling with those odds. He'd have to put me on AA, which I assume most NL10 players would shove pre-flop with. There's no reason to flat the flop.
Question for beaneh. I've given this some thought and for the life of me, I can't understand: What does "sq" mean and why do you like it? On less important issues, if we call the 4-bet pre-flop then fold the flop, are we really just hoping to see no c-bet on the flop? How often do we think that happens?
Also, having played a few more hours at NL10 and not being 4-bet once (other than by EvilPingu which doesn't count) I'm going to agree that 4-betting is likely to mean only super-premiums even with the image I perceive I'm projecting, though I'd guess AK may still be in there.
Oh, and river shoves are never bluffs or anything short of the nuts, even if the nuts was a back door draw and you've been betting strongly on all streets... more sighs...
BL forget that you know what your image is, until you realise that they can pay any attention. Image schmimage.
If you have reads that the villian only 4-bets with QQ+ then fold to the four-bet. Calling the 4-bet is the worst option. Even a little deeper like this calling 4-bets is going to be -ev.
Don't think you can fold QQ pre -
but then again who flats 4 bets......and with what hands. All I see if people flatting 4 bets with KK/AA like it's supercool.
Rarther flat a 3bet with QQ at NL10
Too many people genralise, me included - so much eaiser with specific reads on oppo)
If I flat the pre-flop 4-bet I give him the chance to c-bet his weaker 4-betting hands and it's unlikely he just gives up AK without betting the flop. If I 5-bet he can only call with hands that beat me and possibly AK. When I flat the 4-bet, I'm certainly not just set-mining though, I'm flatting for value. I'm trying to keep his range as wide as possible. I wouldn't 5-bet here with any of my hands.
If that's the logic for calling pre-flop, I don't like just folding the flop. The logic of it, I don't understand. If we don't think he's ever 4-betting with AK or worse, I should fold pre-flop... but is 3-bet/folding QQ a good plan? It seems you'd have to know that your opponents are going to play their hands face-up. That seems to be the way most of the time, though.
Liam's range was not tight for getting it in here. His money was dead money.
I am miraculously only a buy-in down today in spite of being a station on the river.
borin loner has made 2 mistakes in this hand
1) u should be 5 betting to get it all in pre or fold i prefer a fold then calling have a plan and stick 2 it
2) u should always be calling this flop why are u all in makes no sense KEEEP BLUFFS IN
bl what is your thinking of going all in on the flop i dnt like it at all if they have a k aq let em hang
thanks for the post its a intresting hand not had 1 in a while for me theres a couple of mistakes im no cash expert far from it just my opinion
I don't like not 3-betting the hand if I can be called by worse and I don't like folding to the 4-bet or 5-bet jamming if I can only be called by better.
If they have AK or AQ, they don't fold for the rest and if they have total air, they don't put the rest in. I'm shoving the flop for £7 more. I have no fold equity.
U HAVE TO SHOVE FLOP , REALLY DNT SEE POINT IN CALLIN! AK MIGHT NT BARRELL ON A BLANK ANYWAY AND IF HE DOES HAVE 1010 JJ HES GETTIN IT IN
Erm... So you like calling pre-flop, then folding to the c-bet on non-Queen flops only because we are never facing anything worse than QQ?
All of this is predecated on the assumption that the 4-better can never believe that I might be "at it". I hate assuming that people don't notice that sort of thing. Maybe it's best to do that, though.
Bah! You lot are going to turn me into a nit!