THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.

MAXALLY

So Sky Poker devise another promotion aimed at ALL players to reward the top 20 in each group, depending on how many hands of poker they have played over the w/end. 

Two words spring to mind - 'responsible gambling'! 

How can this be applied in this promotion? It is basically asking you to play more MTT's/STT's regardless of your win/lose ratio or BR, as there may be a small financial reward at the end of it. 'Gamble more/spend more' philosophy will not be a good thing for most players IMHO. 

Yes, there are players on the leader board who have the BR to chuck at this promotion, and it will probably be those who are rewarded in the end too. It is the ones who have not got the BR and will not get anything out of it that worries me.

I have started this thread as a DISCUSSION thread, not a moan thread or a them and us thread. 

I have heard so many going/gone bust stories recently, I hope some good advice/discussions comes from this thread. 

Jac35

Hi Alan

I do understand your point.

I personally dislike the the ease in which you can cross over to play blackjack roulette etc. 

old argument I know, but in my mind, poker is a skill game firstly with a lot of luck also  in the mix.

Whereas the other games are total luck and the house will always win.

To be encouraged to play these games when you logged on to play poker irritates me.

However, it is huge money for these sites and making money is the reason for their existence.

With this promotion though, I don't really see a problem.

The names on the leader board are generally the guys you see playing every day anyway. They are just playing a different format to their usual games.

Personally I just couldn't find the time or dedication required to get into the top 20 and so have just carried on as normal.

For the the players who are going to get a nice bonus for their efforts I think is a great promotion.

waller02

I don't see the problem either. This promotion is not encouraging people to play games that their BR will not allow, it is just encouraging people to play more.

If people throw BRM out of the window (like myself) then that is their own fault.....but I don't see how this promotion will do that.

People who normally play £2 DYMs are not suddenly going to start playing £11 DYMs because of this promo......but they may increase the amount of £2 DYMs they play.

I don't see any issue here personally

jonjo75

People are responsible for their own actions.

If someone falls of a cliff it is because they got too close not because the council didnt put a fence up at the end of the cliff.

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

I don't see the problem either. This promotion is not encouraging people to play games that their BR will not allow, it is just encouraging people to play more. If people throw BRM out of the window (like myself) then that is their own fault.....but I don't see how this promotion will do that. People who normally play £2 DYMs are not suddenly going to start playing £11 DYMs because of this promo......but they may increase the amount of £2 DYMs they play. I don't see any issue here personally
Posted by waller02

There lies the problem then, does it not?

Player A normally plays 4 £2 DYM's an hour. OK, so he might not go mad and start playing the £11 DYMs but he may feel the need to play 10 more £2 ones than he normally does due to this promotion. He may win more granted, but he more loss more too.

You may not think that is an issue, but I do. 

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

Hi Alan I do understand your point. I personally dislike the the ease in which you can cross over to play blackjack roulette etc.  old argument I know, but in my mind, poker is a skill game firstly with a lot of luck also  in the mix. Whereas the other games are total luck and the house will always win. To be encouraged to play these games when you logged on to play poker irritates me. However, it is huge money for these sites and making money is the reason for their existence. With this promotion though, I don't really see a problem. The names on the leader board are generally the guys you see playing every day anyway. They are just playing a different format to their usual games. Personally I just couldn't find the time or dedication required to get into the top 20 and so have just carried on as normal. For the the players who are going to get a nice bonus for their efforts I think is a great promotion.
Posted by Jac35

I did state I understood the normal regs who could afford to. My concern were for the ones that could not afford to. That is where the crux of my discussion lies TBH.

Yes, I agree that it is a good bonus promotion for the ones who receive it. Again, my concerns lies with those who play more due to this promotion, lose more, and still do not get any rewards at the end of it. 

Think more of the losers in this promotion, rather than the winners only.

waller02

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread. : There lies the problem then, does it not? Player A normally plays 4 £2 DYM's an hour. OK, so he might not go mad and start playing the £11 DYMs but he may feel the need to play 10 more £2 ones than he normally does due to this promotion. He may win more granted, but he more loss more too. You may not think that is an issue, but I do. 
Posted by MAXALLY

yes but a person who is playing £2 DYMs will (or should have) a suitable BR with which to play them. Whether they play more of them or not should not be a problem imo

If they play more and lose more and don't drop down a level when they should then that is their own fault. Besides, there is nothing stopping somebody from playing a shedload of 30p Turbo DYMs or 60p DYMs as they have exactly the same chance as somebody playing a shedload of £3 DYMs..........just ask donttelmum as that is what he is doing and he is top.

belsibub

I can't multi-table for toffee so am never going to do anything in any type of promo.
But if I could I think this promo is good.
Being hands dealt and including mtt's & sat's(which you should get a lot more hands per £) 30p-£5 in the lower tier does not matter.
In the example given of 4 £2 dym's going to 10 £2 dym's is not necessary.4 x £2.25=£9 , 10 x £1.15=£11.50 or 10 x 60p=£6 (obviously rake goes up the lower you go but only 3 days) and dealt hands go up the same as 10 £2. 

offshoot

You're kidding yourself if you dont think bookies and poker webistes rely on people gambling more than they can afford to. Its just an unfortunate aspect of the industry. Sky dont really need to have a conscience about this just like im sure you dont think twice taking someones money on the table.

jdsallstar

Great post max which raises a really good point. A lot of people saying its up to the individual to manage their bank roll but lets be honest there are always going to be those that don't and will chase this type of promotion recklessly. Are sky acting responsibly by encouraging reckless gambling?

The other side of this is of course is how does this type of promotion differ from sky rewards for example. Both encourage you to play more.

Tough one for sky poker-how to encourage people to gamble responsibly and encourage people to play and gamble more at the same time?!

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

You're kidding yourself if you dont think bookies and poker webistes rely on people gambling more than they can afford to. Its just an unfortunate aspect of the industry. Sky dont really need to have a conscience about this just like im sure you dont mind taking someones money on the table.
Posted by offshoot

1st part of this post is spot on. I get the non conscience thing too. The only part I disagree with you though, is taking someones elses money off the table......I do not play cash, so never really feel like this TBH.

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

Great post max which raises a really good point. A lot of people saying its up to the individual to manage their bank roll but lets be honest there are always going to be those that don't and will chase this type of promotion recklessly. Are sky acting responsibly by encouraging reckless gambling? The other side of this is of course is how does this type of promotion differ from sky rewards for example. Both encourage you to play more. Tough one for sky poker-how to encourage people to gamble responsibly and encourage people to play and gamble more at the same time?!
Posted by jdsallstar

THIS.

TY, someone gets where I am coming from now. I struggle to explain points sometimes.

bbMike

Disgraceful that Sky are tempting people to stay in and play poker on this beautiful bank holiday weekend! Hoping it's only the full-timers getting 'properly involved' who can make good use of the weather at other times. For most, getting a payable score is out of reach anyway as I imagine you'd need to compete with some serious multi-tablers. Those regs enjoy a good head rutting in comps like these, and sky get some increased traffic. I'm not against it, it's just not for me.

unknown_username

If we had to pull this promo because it could be seen to be encouraging irresponsible gambling, then we would have to pull every Promo Advert on the telly.

Promotions are designed to get people to play and play more, it doesn't mean we should do it irresponsibly.

The Monday forum DTD is designed to get us to play 3 Games DTD2, DTD2 & DTD3 when usually I would only play the 7.15pm (DTD1) It has added prizes (The Promo) which is one of the reasons so many more play it on a monday night compared to Tuesdays.

Everyone should gamble responsibly, regardles of whether you enter a promo or not. So if you can afford to do it then thats just fine, if you can't, then you should'nt.

It's no different to any other promo in my opinion. 

Smitalos

I suppose you're going to start a thread for the other promotions too that incentivise more play, eh?

Priority Club
Sky poker Rewards
The MTT FT Jackpot
Early Bird
The Monthly Roller
Happy Hours

ALL of which incite players to play more (or as you put it, gamble! Ooooh!)
Not to mention every other poker site in existance runs promos with the intent of getting people to put more volume in.

The responsible gambling section of the site is solid, and has loads of self-exclusion options to boot.
Your contributions to the forum are often great Max, but this thread is an absolute joke. Put the cape away, and if you really DO care about people gambling irresponsibly, then title the thread as such and offer ways to help people, or suggest viable improvements for the site. Attacking one promo because it does exactly what it's intended to do, on a site that quite openly wants you to gamble as much as possible, is just... lol. So much lol.


"Hi there Topshop. Yes, I think you need banner going around your premises urging people not to come in often. Why? Oh well don't you know there are shoppaholics out there? It's a real thing ya know! Your 'Sales' and 'BOGOF' promos are irresponsible, ya know. You're encouraging frivilous women, those who are easily taken advantage of, to come and spend more than can afford to in your stores! Something MUST be done about this, such '20% off' promotions are a cheap way to get them on board, the public MUST be educated!"

That's you that is.

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

If we had to pull this promo because it could be seen to be encouraging irresponsible gambling, then we would have to pull every Promo Advert on the telly. Promotions are designed to get people to play and play more, it doesn't mean we should do it irresponsibly. The Monday forum DTD is designed to get us to play 3 Games DTD2, DTD2 & DTD3 when usually I would only play the 7.15pm (DTD1) It has added prizes (The Promo) which is one of the reasons so many more play it on a monday night compared to Tuesdays. Everyone should gamble responsibly, regardles of whether you enter a promo or not. So if you can afford to do it then thats just fine, if you can't, then you should'nt. It's no different to any other promo in my opinion. 
Posted by POKERTREV

Are you seriously comparing DTD night to this promotion? I will respectively say you are talking out your hat and are too pro Sky to have that statement included in this discussion.

As for the 2nd bit, I agree with you about the individual's responsibility. However, the other side of that coin is Sky Poker's responsibility is it not?

I am trying to look at this on both sides. Hopefully, others will too.

FlashFlush

It's bank holiday weekend and the sun is shining, the last thing people are thinking of doing is staying inside playing poker. So Sky have come up with this promo which I think works really well, people who play 60p games have as much chance as £5 games and people who play £11 games have as much chance as the £200 games.

You have to remember Alan that Skypoker is a buisness, I expect these types of weekends are the worst they experience all year, so they need to find something to keep people using their product. I don't see how its irresponsible. It's not like they are saying if you don't play x amount of hands this weekend we don't give you any C4P ... Nobody HAS to play this promo, it's their by choice. Most will decide to sun themself I expect.

MAXALLY

In Response to lolthreadaments:

I suppose you're going to start a thread for the other promotions too that incentivise more play, eh? Priority Club Sky poker Rewards The MTT FT Jackpot Early Bird The Monthly Roller Happy Hours ALL of which incite players to play more (or as you put it, gamble! Ooooh!) Not to mention every other poker site in existance runs promos with the intent of getting people to put more volume in. The responsible gambling section of the site is solid, and has loads of self-exclusion options to boot. Your contributions to the forum are often great Max, but this thread is an absolute joke. Put the cape away, and if you really DO care about people gambling irresponsibly, then title the thread as such and offer ways to help people, or suggest viable improvements for the site. Attacking one promo because it does exactly what it's intended to do, on a site that quite openly wants you to gamble as much as possible, is just... lol. So much lol. "Hi there Topshop. Yes, I think you need banner going around your premises urging people not to come in often. Why? Oh well don't you know there are shoppaholics out there? It's a real thing ya know! Your 'Sales' and 'BOGOF' promos are irresponsible, ya know. You're encouraging frivilous women, those who are easily taken advantage of, to come and spend more than can afford to in your stores! Something MUST be done about this, such '20% off' promotions are a cheap way to get them on board, the public MUST be educated!" That's you that is.
Posted by Smitalos

Thanks for your input.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread. : Are you seriously comparing DTD night to this promotion? I will respectively say you are talking out your hat and are too pro Sky to have that statement included in this discussion. As for the 2nd bit, I agree with you about the individual's responsibility . However, the other side of that coin is Sky Poker's responsibility is it not? I am trying to look at this on both sides. Hopefully, others will too.
Posted by MAXALLY

All i'm saying Max is....all promo's BIG or Small are encouraging us to play more.

If peeps are not responsible, they are just as likely to go busto chasing cash for points or some other promo as this one.

I'm not saying any of them are right, but where do we draw the line in saying that all/any promos are irresponsible?

All gaming sites are regulated to ensure they make their customers aware of responsible gambling, which they do.

Smitalos

In Response to Re: lolthreadaments:

In Response to lolthreadaments : Pretty sure Maxally has not attacked the promo- he made it clear that this is a discussion thread! Interesting analogy btw- perhaps the local fast food shops where you live shouldn't encourage you, then you wouldn't be so fat! I have seen your vids!
Posted by GREGHOGG

1) Thanks for the views, I appreciate it!
2) I'd encourage you to stop sucking up to every forum-reg. It makes you looks desperately lonely when you feel like you have to jump to Maxs' rescue with personal insults when I reply to him ITT. He's a big boy, he can take care of himself . Nice to know it takes so little for you to crack though, after I put down 1 post, debating a promo, in which you wern't even OP.
3) Fat 'n' balla baby! Would rather be a big guy with all the money than a forum-donk grinding the micros. Ask Scotty, he'll know what both of those are like. (not an insult to Scotty, s'fair to say we're both on the 'larger' side, haha)

EDIT: ul on deleting it. I replied in time, yes!!

GREGHOGG

In Response to Hitting a nerve. Yum yum!:

In Response to Re: lolthreadaments : 1) Thanks for the views, I appreciate it! 2) I'd encourage you to stop sucking up to every forum-reg. It makes you looks desperately lonely when you feel like you have to jump to Maxs' rescue with personal insults when I reply to him ITT. He's a big boy, he can take care of himself . Nice to know it takes so little for you to crack though, after I put down 1 post, debating a promo, in which you wern't even OP. 3) Fat 'n' balla baby! Would rather be a big guy with all the money than a forum-donk grinding the micros. Ask Scotty, he'll know what both of those are like. (not an insult to Scotty, s'fair to say we're both on the 'larger' side, haha) EDIT: ul on deleting it. I replied in time, yes!!
Posted by Smitalos

Lol, it was only banter- I am rather large myself and being a forum donk isn't necessarily a bad thing! 

Not sure i suck up to people but you are enitlted to your opinion... 

The_Don90

Well this thread managed to go from sitting on bums playing too much poker to fat jokes in less than 20 posts. wp folkes. 

TommyD

Ironically I don't have time to read this thread fully right now as I'm trying to win in this promotion.

MOD HAT ON

I've had a quick glance through, will read fully later and reply to OP.  But I am seeing some sniping and personal stuff in some of the posts.

Chill the Fozzy Bear down now, nothing personal, no insults and discuss OP.

MODDING OFF.

daggers747

These promotions are aimed at people who can
play 6 tables plus at one time, and put in long hours.

So for 95% of players are not a realistic goal.

I have seen a few regs playing extra tournies at my
level 2.20 deepies.

I like testing myself against good players, and really do not
find it a problem.

Advertising is everywhere, you do not have to buy in.

I do agree that it would be nice to have a realistic challenge
that I could acheive but Sky as a poker site do a lot to encourage
and help players enjoy the game.

P.S Can we have a second 5.50 Mega stack please.
 
P P S i was watching the Omen last night and hit trip 6s three times in 20
minutes that must be worth a prize surely.

Daggers.

craigcu12

as much as this promotion could encourage more gambling. the people I think will take it too far are the people who generally already have a problem with gambling.
it will probably be like the bounty hunters are if head prize is available.

TBH most things in life don't care what happens weather it is football owners not building squads alcohol producers keeping units high in some beers fisherman overfishing or gambing comps doing promos that will get more to play tournaments as long as their buissness is getting money.
it is left to us to decide how we do.

Tikay10

In Response to THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

So Sky Poker devise another promotion aimed at ALL players to reward the top 20 in each group, depending on how many hands of poker they have played over the w/end.  Two words spring to mind - 'responsible gambling'!   How can this be applied in this promotion? It is basically asking you to play more MTT's/STT's regardless of your win/lose ratio or BR, as there may be a small financial reward at the end of it. 'Gamble more/spend more' philosophy will not be a good thing for most players IMHO.  Yes, there are players on the leader board who have the BR to chuck at this promotion, and it will probably be those who are rewarded in the end too. It is the ones who have not got the BR and will not get anything out of it that worries me. I have started this thread as a DISCUSSION thread, not a moan thread or a them and us thread.  I have heard so many going/gone bust stories recently, I hope some good advice/discussions comes from this thread. 
Posted by MAXALLY

  
Hi Alan,

By extension, you would prefer that this Promo deliberately EXCLUDED the smaller-rolled players?

Usually the complaint is that they are NOT included.

At least it is an original angle!
 

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread.:

In Response to THE BIG DEAL - The bigger issue discussion thread. :    Hi Alan, By extension, you would prefer that this Promo deliberately EXCLUDED the smaller-rolled players? Usually the complaint is that they are NOT included. At least it is an original angle!  
Posted by Tikay10

By definition, and why I put the word 'all' in capital letters, is it for all?

I beg to differ. It is another promotion aimed at those who grind 24/7 and to borrow a phrase used by a Sky Poker analyst, have no life.

However, this discussion thread is more to do with the responsible gaming aspect of it all (on either side) than the actual promotion.

GELDY

there is a potential conflict between responsible gaming and play as much as you can promos - by definition

but is it excessive should be the real question?

businesses will always promote themselves, and sometimes they go too far

but not sure this is such a case

- it is rewarding peeps for doing what they are on the site to do

- the rewards are not excessive compared to the amount of activity needed to get them

- to win you already need to be a grinder, knowing what that entails and what you are letting yourself in for

DTD is could be regarded as a more irresponsible promo - just playing devil's advocate

- higher stake players play it even though it is not their normal activity, while microstake players are forced to multi-table

- there is a lot of prestige to winning

- to do well takes a night of concentration, distracting from the higher revenue potential of one's normal game

gixxerk4

Good point Maxally but have to disagree mostly yes it favours the regs but also gives a chance for low rollers to have a bit of fun too and increase their multitabling skills with the incentive of a very high payout (for eg 60p level players a top ten payout would make a huge difference to their bankroll)
Also a bit of a sweetner for the DYM regs unhappy about the new rewards system (particularly the high level players) seems like sky are taking note
I don't think that many players will overreach themselves in this too many regs to beat but some lower stake players will get a nice boost
Now if only I hadn't been nightshift all weekend lol

scotty77

The best aspect of this promotion is that is over a few days.  This increases the likelyhood that the prize positions are occupied by recreational/casual players than the big name regs.  I could go on about the merits of this promotion, and others, but Smitalos puts across some really good points so no need to reiterate them.

With regards to responsibile gambling, I don't know of any other site that allows you to self exclude from Betting/Vegas/Bingo areas of the site.  These sections of the website are easy to find and the SkyBet twitter accounts regularly promote them too.

Also speaking as an analyst, I can tell you that one of the major features of Sky Poker TV is to promote responsibie behaviour on Sky Poker.  

FCHD

Hands up all those who could have predicted at least 7 of the top 10 in each category?