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take this hand for instance
He was smart enough to realise if he checked the turn, you would ship a worse hand.
But you were not smart enough to realise if you shipped the flop, he would call and have you beat.
You got done by somebody thinking a level higher than you were (in terms of levels of poker thinking)
He outplayed you imo.
I get the feeling that you are a tad annoyed he didnt play his pocket pair face up so you could get away.
don ands me were just talking to on another beside I am not the only one who notices how passive these table are read what don 90 has said about AAvQQ and A2v K2 on board 22xxx them two also sound as if the lacked much aggression.
I didn't care if I was behind because I was always going to bet £1 anyway and I expect he might jam the rest himself if I did only bet £1 so I would have just called that flush draw was the key to my aggression
Firstly, punctuation - nuff said
Secondly, Stoke and Lambert know what they are talking about. Without wanting to blow my own trumpet I have been beating 4nl for reasonable £££ the last few months so I have an understanding of this level of poker too.
Please try and listen to the advice.
It has nothing to do with "cant be bothered to raise", and everything to do with giving you enough rope to hang yourself. Lambert hit the nail on the head, why is he shipping the kings if your going to do it for him?
Furthermore as there were 2 other players in the hand and the flop was fairly wet, it would not have been terrible for villain to hold off going crazy until a likely blank hit the turn.
And dont tarnish all 4nl players with the same brush. You cannot always make huge moves based on what you see most other players do, you should play your hand based on its relative strength when you have no reads.
When you mention about your top pair being in danger of a straight hitting, what im hearing you say is "I dont know what I should do if danger card hits the river, so im going to ship it in and hope im good". I have seen a lot of your hand histories, and there is a general theme repeating itself. You hate the idea of getting drawn out on. Please realise that as long as you are giving players incorrect odds to draw, then thats fine. Unfortunatly in this instance you assumed they were drawing.
Did you give any consideration to him holding
AT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA,T9,T3,93,TT,99,33??
No, you didnt, because you assumed they had to be a "calling station" as you put it.
Not to forget, you had one pair!!! Have you never heard the saying "big hands big pots, small hands small pots"
one pair is not a big hand.
I know you dont want to hear it. But when all is said and done, villain played their hand a hell of a lot better than you played yours.
Craig has stated numerous times, in threads i'm pretty sure you have been involved in that he has problems with his written english due the condition he has. I understand you are not trying to offend but it's just unnessecary to point this out when the issue has been raised and explained before- we are here to talk about poker after all and if we are nit picking "nuff" is not a word i'm familiar with.
To be fair oppo minraises preflop and then only calls on the flop, so it's hard to put him on any v-strong hands. Looking at the pot size and stack sizes with this board i can't really see craig bet/folding the turn- would you?, so although i disagree with jamming as we are likely to fold out worse hands the logic isnt as ridiculous as it's being made out- both opponents have less than the pot size, so if craig bets more than 1/2 pot he is priced in anyway and losing his money in this spot.
Out of interest how do you play the hand, do you check fold turn? do you bet so small on the turn you can fold? Craig has a one pair hand which can be overated i agree, but he does have a redraw to the second nuts i can't really see how the result here ends up any differently.
Ok Benc, I didnt realise that, no offence intended.
I will go through the important points as I see them. min pre, there are still a reasonable number of players who min or even limp big pps at 4nl. So unless its a reg we cannot ever rule out KK from pre flop range. Granted its very hard to assign it to them, but we cannot rule it out.
Its kind of hard to say how I would have played this hand, as on the button I would have re raised pre on the button, just a kind of tester as firstly I have position and secondly to try and get a re raise / information out of the other players.
As played probably min raise possibly sometimes even just call the flop - its 4nl, fold equity is pretty much kicked into touch. The beauty of position is that if its checked around on the turn, we would be able to bet with more confidence that we are ahead. Without knowing what the other two players do next its pretty hard to comment after that.
At the end of the day its 4nl, its one pair, and unless you hit your flush you will probably have a marginal hand by the river. Save the shippingi it in for the monster hands. And (now I am not talking about this specific hand here) I have found the key to crushing 4nl dont be afraid to check or even fold marginals
Im not saying its terrible to go broke on this hand doing what craig did. But I am really looking at one raise then pot control.
I think the main issue is with craigs attitude on this hand is that he blamed the villain being a bit deceptive with his hand for craig getting stacked. Thats just tanatmount to getting outplayed in this spot. Take it on the chin, and consider what you might have done better, and take that information forward.
Craig, I keep harping on about it, but look at the article on "levels of poker thinking" over at the poker bank website. If you understand that you will realise why villain was able to play KK as he did.
All imho and I understand my comments might not be super optimal
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Next cash promo = £xxx awarded to a player everytime he/she gets a stack above 1,000 big blinds plz, then I can play
Blew my roll versus Zing last night while drunk - o well back to the drawing board !!