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Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey

24

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  • waller02waller02
    edited October 2013
    Yeah I did pipe up first tbf.......in fact my exact words were "lol and you berated jacs call" and the argument continued from there. This did finish with me saying post the hand on the clinic to see what the general opinion is because I can't see how this could ever be the right play in the long run

    In still not sure about my shove either tbh.........I do think given the fact that it was literally only the second hand that I played then it does get a fold from Q8 the VAST majority of the time
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    Yeah I did pipe up first tbf.......in fact my exact words were "lol and you berated jacs call" and the argument continued from there. This did finish with me saying post the hand on the clinic to see what the general opinion is because I can't see how this could ever be the right play in the long run
    Posted by waller02
    Thank you Waller for being honest.  Jac has the opinion that Im some kind of trouble maker  at the tables but did I say anything offensive or wrong to you? I actually tried to explain to you why I called.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    Yeah I did pipe up first tbf.......in fact my exact words were "lol and you berated jacs call" and the argument continued from there. This did finish with me saying post the hand on the clinic to see what the general opinion is because I can't see how this could ever be the right play in the long run In still not sure about my shove either tbh.........I do think given the fact that it was literally only the second hand that I played then it does get a fold from Q8 the VAST majority of the time
    Posted by waller02
    It's not.
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  • waller02waller02
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Thank you Waller for being honest.  Jac has the opinion that Im some kind of trouble maker  at the tables but did I say anything offensive or wrong to you? I actually tried to explain to you why I called.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    Apart from your whole argument being flawed (IMO lol) no nothing offensive was said it was all quite civil. In fact I was prob the one who maybe stepped close to the line by calling you deluded.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Apart from your whole argument being flawed (IMO lol) no nothing offensive was said it was all quite civil. In fact I was prob the one who maybe stepped close to the line by calling you deluded.
    Posted by waller02
    That's what I like, an honest person. Top man!
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited October 2013
    Strange min raise.
    Strange shove.
    Strange call.

    Strange :)

    To induce in this kind of spot, you need to be significantly ahead of the opponents shoving range.

    With Q8o, we have 53% equity against any 2 cards, so even if he shoves 100% of the time, it's still a bad induce, particularly in a sat.

    Many of the hands we're ahead of, we'd rather see them folded.

    And of course some hands that are better than ours will fold to a shove, yet might jam over a min raise.


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  • Jac35Jac35
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : That's what I like, an honest person. Top man!
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    Yes, honesty is good.

    In other thread you claimed I called you "donkish", not true
    You claimed also that "you never said it was bad or poor" "it was marginal" "it was questionable" "not saying it was bad or poor" 
    You didn't actually say any of those things. You said it was "an horrific call"

    Maybe your memory isn't great or alternatively, you're not actually being truthful with your posts.

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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Yes, honesty is good. In other thread you claimed I called you "donkish", not true You claimed also that "you never said it was bad or poor" "it was marginal" "it was questionable" "not saying it was bad or poor"  You didn't actually say any of those things. You said it was "an horrific call" Maybe your memory isn't great or alternatively, you're not actually being truthful with your posts.
    Posted by Jac35
    Just read what I said properly throught the post regarding you Jac and you will see that I always stated that your call was 'questionable'.  Anyway, I showed the maths behind my play, and its marginally +cEV. 

    One question though, why did you bother to make a sarcastic comment after you lost the hand?  When you give sarcasm to someone expect them to say or do something back.  Move on and get over it.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    Strange min raise. Strange shove. Strange call. Strange :) To induce in this kind of spot, you need to be significantly ahead of the opponents shoving range. With Q8o, we have 53% equity against any 2 cards, so even if he shoves 100% of the time, it's still a bad induce, particularly in a sat. Many of the hands we're ahead of, we'd rather see them folded. And of course some hands that are better than ours will fold to a shove, yet might jam over a min raise.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    I find myself repeating this constantly, Yes I should of open shoved but once he shoves its still an easy call. No way am I ever folding this given the dynamics of my image and what someone in his position should do.

    On a side note, when I open shove, what is his calling range, ie percentage?
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  • Jac35Jac35
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Just read what I said properly throught the post regarding you Jac and you will see that I always stated that your call was 'questionable'.  Anyway, I showed the maths behind my play, and its marginally +cEV.  One question though, why did you bother to make a sarcastic comment after you lost the hand?  When you give sarcasm to someone expect them to say or do something back.  Move on and get over it.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    I did, instantly 

    You, however, chose to start a thread. You left names in  and then made things up.

    As an aside. Numerous good players have explained in great detail why they think your play wasn't optimal. 
    You haven't listened to one word and are still jabbering on about the math and how your play was good.
    Simply, it wasn't. You admitted you would have gone broke on any K high flop. Do you not see how this makes the call easy for me? There was such a low percentage of hands that could be beating me on the flop. I didn't factor in that you would call a raise with K6. You got lucky and hit your rag as well as the king. .i said something. After that I heard plenty from you in the next few minutes, things which you appear to have conveniently forgotten now.

    I am now going to move on. No more from me in this thread.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : I did, instantly  You, however, chose to start a thread. You left names in  and then made things up. As an aside. Numerous good players have explained in great detail why they think your play wasn't optimal.  You haven't listened to one word and are still jabbering on about the math and how your play was good. Simply, it wasn't. You admitted you would have gone broke on any K high flop. Do you not see how this makes the call easy for me? There was such a low percentage of hands that could be beating me on the flop. I didn't factor in that you would call a raise with K6. You got lucky and hit your rag as well as the king. .i said something. After that I heard plenty from you in the next few minutes, things which you appear to have conveniently forgotten now. I am now going to move on. No more from me in this thread.
    Posted by Jac35
    Try not to be sarcastic then Jac and this hand would never of been posted.
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Try not to be sarcastic then Jac and this hand would never of been posted.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    Well this seems nothing short of petty to post the hand then as some sort of sick rubdown.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Well this seems nothing short of petty to post the hand then as some sort of sick rubdown.
    Posted by gazza127

    Well I was always under the impression that playing at sky poker is friendly. Being sarcastic and then telling them how bad there play is, in my book is certainly not being friendly unless of course it was done in good spirit. 
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Well I was always under the impression that playing at sky poker is friendly. Being sarcastic and then telling them how bad there play is, in my book is certainly not being friendly unless of course it was done in good spirit. 
    Posted by DoubleAAA

    But then going on the forum... opening the whole matter to the community and questioning the integrety of one of the forum regs is not the manor to deal with it.  You've told Jac to move on yet youre the one that brought it to the community. I suggest leaving it be.
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited October 2013
    And as ettiquette for the clinic dictates... you should always leave villains name out of the HH.
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  • NColleyNColley
    edited October 2013
    lol inducing with Q8o in a sat
    lol shoving 42o with no fold equity in a sat
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : But then going on the forum... opening the whole matter to the community and questioning the integrety of one of the forum regs is not the manor to deal with it.  You've told Jac to move on yet youre the one that brought it to the community. I suggest leaving it be.
    Posted by gazza127
    I would not of psoted it if he had not been so sarcastic and co cky. Yes, I'm done with this, although I find it interesting that none of you bothered to show any maths to show how my play was poor.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : I would not of psoted it if he had not been so sarcastic and co cky. Yes, I'm done with this, although I find it interesting that none of you bothered to show any maths to show how my play was poor.
    Posted by DoubleAAA

    Sorry Carol, our bad.

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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    lol inducing with Q8o in a sat lol shoving 42o with no fold equity in a sat
    Posted by NColley
    Someone finally sees that I have to snap call it. Yes the induce was a bit mehh, but I knew he would shove 100% and I wanted to double up. I was still far from the bubble and had only 12bbs.
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  • waller02waller02
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    lol inducing with Q8o in a sat lol shoving 42o with no fold equity in a sat
    Posted by NColley
    I think I do have fold equity though.....because it's a sat. I know we have around 10bb stacks here but this is around ave stack and by no means a short stack.

    In a standard mtt ofc I have zero fold equity but sats play differently.
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Someone finally sees that I have to snap call it. Yes the induce was a bit mehh, but I knew he would shove 100% and I wanted to double up. I was still far from the bubble and had only 12bbs.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    Its like im bashing my head against a brick wall.

    You raised Q8os KNOWING villain was going to shove KNOWING that you plan to call it off cause youre apparently getting odds.  So you are essentially saying 'sure im happy to go against another player with Q8os for my stack' when you raise.

    Why not play bingo instead.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Its like im bashing my head against a brick wall. You raised Q8os KNOWING villain was going to shove KNOWING that you plan to call it off cause youre apparently getting odds.  So you are essentially saying 'sure im happy to go against another player with Q8os for my stack' when you raise. Why not play bingo instead.
    Posted by gazza127
    Im 53% to his shove Gazz, why would I not take that? blinds were increasing and im far from a good spot in making the seat.
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited October 2013
    Youre 53% to the range youve assigned him.  And youre only at this price cause you min raised.  Note this hand is completely different if you open shove.... however what you have essentially done is induced with Q8os.... a play which i cannot get on board with.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    Youre 53% to the range youve assigned him.  And youre only at this price cause you min raised.  Note this hand is completely different if you open shove.... however what you have essentially done is induced with Q8os.... a play which i cannot get on board with.
    Posted by gazza127
    Yes I have and the optimal play would have been to shove (I've said this so many times now).  But Gazz, I ask you, if I shove what is his calling range? If I'm going to continue to discuss this with you I need you to tell me what his calling range is to my shove please bearing in mind that he knows that I am very loose. Thanks.
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Yes I have and the optimal play would have been to shove (I've said this so many times now).  But Gazz, I ask you, if I shove what is his calling range? If I'm going to continue to discuss this with you I need you to tell me what his calling range is to my shove please bearing in mind that he knows that I am very loose. Thanks.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    Now how would I know his calling range?
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Now how would I know his calling range?
    Posted by gazza127
    Then how can you comment? At least what sems a reasonable range for someone to be calling off there 8bb stack vs a loose btn player?

    Okay, let's say it's you in his situation, knowing I am loose, what would your calling range be?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Someone finally sees that I have to snap call it. Yes the induce was a bit mehh, but I knew he would shove 100% and I wanted to double up. I was still far from the bubble and had only 12bbs.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    It was alot worse than 'a bit mehh'.

    How did you know he would shove 100%?

    We all 'want to double up' but making -ev plays isn't the best way to go about it.

    His calling range if you ship is very tight. Easily tight enough to make this a profitable shove.

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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Then how can you comment? Okay, let's say it's you in his situation, knowing I am loose, what would your calling range be?
    Posted by DoubleAAA

    You know what... im done.

    cba with this anymore.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : It was alot worse than 'a bit mehh'. How did you know he would shove 100%? We all 'want to double up' but making -ev plays isn't the best way to go about it. His calling range if you ship is very tight. Easily tight enough to make this a profitable shove.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Care to clarify what you think it would be other than 'quite tight'? Any A? Any Pair? Any Kxs?
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey:
    In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : You know what... im done. cba with this anymore.
    Posted by gazza127
    Shame that, because we both might learn something from working out his calling range or yours for that matter.  Why don;t you want to specify what your calling range would be or what you guess would be a reasonable range for him to call off?
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