You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Comments
It wasnt only rude but very ignorant.
Congratulations for the other day.
All the best.
Rainman397.
Out of all of them I have played Ryan is the best. I am not biased at all, I have never met the guy and probably never will.
I have been a guest on the show before and it was surprisingly tiring and I was only chipping in with bits every so often. I cant comment on his presenting skills as I rarely watch the channel these days. However, as a player he is better than all other analysts.
He would have put those 2 upstarts properly back in their place.
All the best
Jac35
WHAT?
Behave!
in the interest of fairness we should address the evidence presented
#1 Teeks - it is true that he is very self-deprecating, and particularly about his NLHE play. But for anyone who can cash at WSOP events in more complex variants of the game we should take his self-deprecation with a pinch of salt
#2 Ryan - yes a small sample, but also he doesn't play the sky cash game the way he plays regularly. A lot of it was for the TV and to add some zing to the show, which he wouldn't need to worry about while playing for real. (iirc)
I'm undecided & dithering as to whether to reply to the OP, to be honest. Proper dither in progress at the moment.
The chap is perfectly entitled to his opinion, & at my age, I can't reasonably expect to be around 861 much longer, it's a fact of life. I'm completely & 100% at ease with that. And old people are boring, reminiscence too much, & smell of wee, we all know that.
But he made a crucial error in his OP, & was hoist by his own petard thing, because he wrote.....
".....so called experts like Tikay and ryan spittles....."
For the record, we are NOT deemed to be, or employed as, "experts". The Job Title is "Analysts". (Or even Annalists, it seems....).
Even that is misleading - I would estimate that only 10% of the job brief is about analysing hands.
I might just start a seperate thread & explain what the Job Description entails. It's really a very wide brief. If the OP - & presumably others - are not aware of what the job entails, it is quite reasonable that they make judgement on a very narrow part of the job. It's like seeing an iceberg - he is only seeing the top 10% of it.
The OP must feel very strongly about the matter, incidentally - it was his first Post on the Community in over 2 years, & only his 2nd Community Post ever.
Analysts on 861 don't have any job security, or time-related Contract, they have a Service Agreement. This simply says, "we will use you as & when we decide, at a set fee". It does NOT oblige the Business to give Shifts to the Analysts, only that IF asked, they will do so for a fee.
Quite an interesting dynamic, actually, because every month, at around the usual date, we get - or not - an e-Mail asking what "availability" we have for the following month. A week or two later - or not - we get another e-Mail, with our confirmed dates.
If they does not come, that's it, job done, & there are no grounds for chuntering, that's the deal.
I always keep a look out for those e-Mails. Sometimes they are a bit late, & I fret a bit. That's only natural, we all like to know what our future holds, don't we? If the deal ends, fine, I've got a ton of other stuff on the bucket list.
It's all good.
just think what the OP would say if he could see the hidden 90%.
Ha! That is also true.
I think the op doesnt have a right to his opinion.
When he knows very little about the people he is having a go at.
Both people he criticized make aliving out of poker, a positition we would all love to be in.
I believe he is just a bitter little sad man.
All the best Rainman397
is "anal-ist" a banned word?
clearly not.
I didn't respond, therefore it did not happen.
I have issues dating my own kind.
lesson: don't ever listen to tikay, or "the iceberg" as he is now known.
I find the analysts very entertaining and informative as well as excellent presenters. Whilst I do find it satisfying that I sometimes spot 'outs' that they miss I am doing so from the comfort of my own living room. They are doing so in the pressurised environment of a live TV studio.
I rate them both highly as both analysts and players. In fact one of my most memorable achievements was getting Ryan to bluff his whole stack off against me when I held a very strong hand and deliberately played it weakly. Sadly it was in a rebuy MTT tourney and he just bought back in, probably going on to finish a lot higher than me in the end although I can't remember (honestly).
I have played Tikay a few times mainly on Omaha HL STTs and he is also very good. He may be a doddery old fool and smell of wee but he is a true gent. I am sure he won't be short of visitors when the men in white coats finally come to take him away.
;-D
Boy oh boy have I been chomping at the bit to come and defend OP for a while now. 1st day back from the bannage, and it's time to quash some ignorance.
Before I start dissecting this thread, I will preface this post by saying that the premise of this thread is the most important thing here. Not whether OP is right/wrong. Questioning things should always be encouraged, even in this case, a players ability (that is currently held in high regard).
Personally, I agree with OP, and think Ryan is pretty overrated. But we should welcome all threads like this, irrespective of whether we agree with the sentiment. I've seen similar threads about me in the past on here, and have lobbied for them to stay open, and for it to be discussed.
Why?...
1) Encourages skepticism about those in authority. Despite sometimes going against the concencus.
2) OP giving his albeit unpopular opinion in a calm controlled and 'non-derogatory' manner.
3) Polarizing subjects start engaging discussions. Fresh material, just the thing this (or any) forum needs.
Firstly, the treatment of OP in this thread has been borderline disgusting. Despite disagreeing with almost everyone but OP here, it's important to start by saying that some posters have been out of line.
BigBluster, THEROCK573, jonnyrkd, Diminuendo and Enut have been solid. Pointing out their disagreement, without personally attacking OP.
Unsurprisingly, a00rock, GELDY, TommyD and Tikay, have replied with calculated rebuttals. Addressing OPs critique without any sort of degredation. I disagree with the view they hold, but it's a big thumbs-up to them, because of the way they delivered their opinion. Awesome, as usual.
However, I'm slightly unnerved by how callous and pretentious some posts have been. It IS possible to passionately express you're opinion without letting the discussion spiral into a slanging match. And I'm disappointed that no-one seems to care. The standard on which forum goers get warnings/bans does (to me) seem to fluctuate.
In the name of a consistant and well-moderated forum, these people should be spoken to. The last comment, especially, is catergorically unacceptable.
With the nitty-gritty out of the way, I'mma give my personal notes on why I actually agree with OP.
- Ryan's rise through the ranks wasn't solely through his ability as a poker player. AFAIK, his popularity among the forum landed him a position with SkyPoker. He jumped from 10NL thru 20NL cash and Micro stakes donkaments, to 100NL thru 500NL cash, and UKIPT/EPT MTTs. He's either being heavily staked, or using some dolla-dolla from his TV appearances on the show to build his roll and status in the poker world sufficiently to get backing for bigger tourneys. Again, AFAIK, he gets backed for close to all his UKIPT/EPT stops, and plays completely differently at the bigger cash limits on Sky to his more preferred limits at 100-200NL (if he ever jumps in them, at all).
- From personal experience, having been a 'pro' for close to a year now at the 100NL+ level on Sky, I believe I've played enough hands with the guy to get a good feel of his ability. To me, he wouldn't even make my top 25 players on the site. Which, is why I get frustrated that so many more promising and PROVEN up-and-coming players get overlooked when scouting players to rep the site on shows like the SkyPoker Cash Game.
His play fits the sillhouette of a player that's risen through the ranks too quickly. Unable to optimally apply many advanced concepts without that fundamental understanding. It feels like he's immitating "good" play, trying to learn too much too quick and just slapping together a hodge-podge of advanced moves without knowing when or why to use them. This isn't to say he doesn't have reasons to make certain plays, or that he doesn't use logic at the tables. His reasoning may just be basic and underdeveloped. Matching the profile of someone going from 20NL to 200NL without 'fully' learning the ropes.
- This point is purely subjective, but I'm just not a fan of his style on TV. For me he lacks expertise, charisma, or enthusiasm. Orford and Tikay have chemistry, Redmond's got a wealth of knowledge and is an extremely proven player. Rutter shows a lot of gusto (and even though I think he's a bit of a fishcake sometimes) that's enjoyable to watch. For me, Scotty's someone to take home to your Grandma, and needs a RYANSPITTLES stamp to put down on the way he presents. Purely just opinion, and I'm not by any means bashing his character. Just the style in which he talks about poker.
- Lastly, people may point to his MTT cashes as to his ability. This to me is the last bastion of hope for anyone trying to get behind his poker ability.
Hellmuth has the most WSOP bracelets, most cashes, and is arguably the most (in)famous poker player of all time. Does that mean he's a good player? I saw him take down the Razz bracelet a while back and he played.... just... awful.
Non-cashes rarely get reported/noted. Ryan may or may not be a solid MTTer, but if you're really going to use that argument (and expect to be taken seriously) show me ROI, and a solid sample size.
To be clear, I have close to no opinion of Ryan as a person. Never met the guy, and never had any meaningful interaction. I'm just assessing the information in front of me, nothing more. And if people want to rip my play apart they can by my guest! As said, I'd even encourage it. Proactive discussion is almost never a bad thing, so feel free to do so.
ty for your time guys. Hope this at least plays devils advocate to some preconceptions out there.
night, night.