Going broke

K8LOU · May 2014

Hey all, thought I would post here as I have only just signed up to 2+2 and the layout cabbages my mind. Right down to the point, I was staked last year, I did really well becoming the biggest earner on pkr for 2014, also doing pretty good on ipoker and a few other sites. Recently my backers stopped backing mtt players as a whole unfortunitly this included me, by this point I had givin up my job and started concentrating on playing poker FT, I had a small roll of around 2k of my own so I decided to take some shots and see if I could get myself playing FT, things went swimmingly early on, making withdrawals for bills ect and paying the rent but after some horrid runbad and poor BRM I have now hit rock bottom and gone totally broke, now you make think just find a job but we all know its not that simple anymore with the job market the way it is atm it could take months! where do I turn???

THEROCK573 · May 2014

been there mate with not a pot to pi** in, no job and lost my bankroll, going back a few years mind but it taught me a good lesson , i shamefully had to play free rolls on here to try and win pittance so i could take a shot at a small stakes tournament. fortuanatley someone up there likes me cos i ended up spiining my roll up all be it by taking shots and basically gambling kinda all or nothing basically, u have a good game so im sure you will be back on ur feet soon.

DOHHHHHHH · May 2014

My first thought is why didn't you think about this as soon as your old deal ended?

Seems strange to punt/go busto and then think "dam, what now"....

But that isn't going to help you now, so maybe look for a new backer?

Your old backers must be willing to give you a good reference and by the sound of it your graphs must look good, I'm sure you'll have no problem finding 1.

omm · May 2014

Hi K8LOU sorry to hear about your situation, it's obviously not a good position to be in, but I promise you something it's not the end of the world, as long as your healthy and have a positive attitude things will start to get better straight away, it's a myth that people can't get jobs nowadays, you may not be able to get a job you want or one that you think you deserve but I can assure you if you put your mind to it and have the right attitude you could go out and get a job next week. If poker is important to you them my advice would be to get a job and build a bankroll back up again, keep playing poker and studying the game and things will start improving, you may not get to the level you were playing at straight away but if your good enough you will get there.

Sorry if this comes across as direct but I've lost a lot recently (career, family home and my health) because I became unwell very quickly and I'm still recovering. Have the right attitude (which I'm sure you have) and you will be able to come back from this. Good luck with the job hunt but keep an open mind about what you want and you will get it.

unknown_username · May 2014

Hi k8

At least by voicing honestly in a forum you appear to be receptive to advice. Now there are different levels of being broke. No doubt you aren't living under a bridge. Hopefully you're not addicted to street drugs and find yourself washing the money into your arm. Consequently, you will be able to make decisions but must have patience. By all means keep with poker but now BRM is more important than ever. You need a PLAN, one which possibly should have been created when dropped by your backer. However that is in the past. Make a complete financial assessment of where you stand....an accurate and honest one.

Just as in poker you may have a basic source of increasing your BR with some Satellites to bigger MTT's etc with more risk but bigger wins, the same is true in the real world. You may need a back up even if it is gardening to bring in some cash to pay the bills and maybe leave a little something to enable you to play some poker at the APPROPRIATE stakes.

Nothing is guaranteed these days but be grateful for what you do have. Health, a loving family, friends you can talk to....there will be things you can be thankful for, i'm sure. And if poker is too unhealthy financially for you then you have learned a great lesson for the remainder of your life, haven't you.

Now, i'm sorry if you were expecting some detailed poker plan but i'm just an ordinary probably below average player who certainly doesn't want to attempt to make a living from it.

Yes i'd like to improve and have attempted to take steps to do through planning and analysis but that's the limit. I play for a team called Hitsquad on here and we have a fb page where we discuss and chat over poker. some of the players are heavily involved in it and play much more than i do. They may be willing and able to give you better advice. You can attempt to join through this site but you would be expected to play some monday's online in the DTD forum competition which is just a bit of cheap fun.

Put the figures down on paper and the solution my be staring you in the face. Good luck for the future.

Matt237 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

I play for a team called Hitsquad on here and we have a fb page where we discuss and chat over poker. some of the players are heavily involved in it and play much more than i do. They may be willing and able to give you better advice. You can attempt to join through this site but you would be expected to play some monday's online in the DTD forum competition which is just a bit of cheap fun.
Posted by profman15

Hands off our TPTer!!!!!!!!!!!

1267 · May 2014

Sticking to Bankroll maangement is an absolute must, if you are to have another shot at poker you need to know you have it in yourself to stick to good BRM and not go broke.
It seems you've been playing massive buy in tournies and obviously playing £11 and £22 seems like a waste of time almost now.
If your mentally strong enough i'm sure you could easily spin a roll up, just need some will power.

I'm sure you have a car you could downgrade or sell ?
Or like Dohh said, if you have good results i'm sure you'll find a backer.

GL

liamboi11 · May 2014

I know your a good mtt player and I`m sure you will be back on your feet in no time but you defo learnt an important lesson for the future but don`t need me tell you that you already know.

best of luck getting things sorted in life and in poker buddy.

daggers747 · May 2014

I think you need to take a deep breath, and put your full time poker dream on hold for this year.

Go to the job centre get advice on benefits and write a CV.

Not sure where you live, but the job market is picking up.

You might have to swallow your pride and take a low paid job but it will pay the bills.

You could also look at setting up your own business again help is available.

I have been there, it is tough but if you get help and are willing to be flexible something will turn up.

Volunteering was an important part of me regaining confidence, it also keeps you busy and can be very rewarding.

Play poker for fun, and try to remain positive.

Not sure if it's what you wanted to hear, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Good luck.

Daggers

F_Ivanovic · May 2014

How much typically would you withdraw per month for bills etc?

I've been playing poker for the past 10 months or so as my only source of income. Fortunately for the first few months of that I had no rent/bills to pay as I was living back at home but for the past 4 months I have been - probably withdrawing £400-£500 per month. When I initially moved in I had a roll of £5000-£6000 iirc. Cash wise I was playing at levels where I had minimum 80BI's and maximum 200-250. Tournaments I would generally play 1% of my BR at most (so £55 events) and probably around £30 on avg.

This way if I had a downswing it wouldn't cost me 30-40% of my roll, but maybe 10%, 20% max. (and I might move down for a bit) - I would still have plenty of money 'reserve' to pay for bills etc per month.

The truth is it's unlikely a £2k starting roll could enable you to go pro without any risks. Most people will say you need at least 6 months living expenses set aside when you are a pro so you can afford bad months and it not affect your living situation. But it does depend a bit on how bad going broke would be. ie. If you have a family to support you would want at least a years living expenses set aside so if you did go broke you could have plenty of time to find a job/get a roll again and still support your family. If you only have yourself to worry about then maybe 3-6 months is fine depending on how long you think it will be to get a job - also depends how much you are currently withdrawing a month for bills etc. And would you have anywhere to go if you no longer could afford your bills?

If you want to pursue poker then the best thing to do would probably be find a job - start saving some money and living cheaply for a while. Get a small roll to play poker recreationally and then try and save up money from your job/poker so that you have 3-6 months living expenses plus a poker bank roll of 100BI's per the stake you want to play. And hopefully from there you won't have to look back!

jimb0d1 · May 2014

First of all I cant believe a player as good and as solid as you has gone bust! Always someone to respect at the table.

Get a job and get back on the low/midstakes tourneys. Even just playing on sky Im sure you would get yourself a 4 figure roll from a £20 inside of a year. Good luck.

DAVEYZZ · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

My first thought is why didn't you think about this as soon as your old deal ended? Seems strange to punt/go busto and then think "dam, what now".... But that isn't going to help you now, so maybe look for a new backer? Your old backers must be willing to give you a good reference and by the sound of it your graphs must look good, I'm sure you'll have no problem finding 1.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I'm still struggling with this whole being staked thingy.....if I stake him will it turn him back into a winning player with no downswings?...if I was a winning player I would rather take 100% of the winnings....and 100% of the losses..

FlyingDagg · May 2014

Hi K8 I was wondering what happened to you lately and sorry to see that it's not good news. I'm no expert on staking but once that deal ended the 2K you had is no way enough to try to run solo.

But what to do now? You have to get a job. Any job that will give you a regular income. But unlike omm I know it isn't as easy as he says. I'm having to look for work now myself and I'm guessing the job situation in Liverpool is much the same as in Bolton. Contact the job centre make a claim for JSA and they will fix up an appointment with a careers advisor at your local office and you can take things from there. At least if you are claiming benefits then your rent and council tax will be taken care of.

There's a few members of TPT (yes profman he's already a member of TPT) use Skype if you want advice about anything. I've not joined in yet myself but I am on Skype. Good luck with things and please keep us informed how things are going.

ACEGOONER · May 2014

Im not going to sit here and preach to you John about BR management, but if you wanna chat on skype about anything financial feel free to drop me a line.

IMO managing your life roll is as important if not more so than your poker BR.

Lambert180 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

In Response to Re: Going broke : I'm still struggling with this whole being staked thingy.....if I stake him will it turn him back into a winning player with no downswings?...if I was a winning player I would rather take 100% of the winnings....and 100% of the losses..
Posted by DAVEYZZ

Nothing will stop downswings or losing some of the time, but he's already a winning player. Him getting 50% profit playing £10-£30 comps is much better than 100% profit on £2-£5 games which might be all he can afford, I dunno. Could be a quicker way to get him back on his feet, and deffo a winning proposition for the backer so win win

a00rock · May 2014

K8 sorry to see you are struggling at the minute but it should be no surprise as your bankroll management is virtually non existent you admitted as much when you first started posting on here and it seems that you have learned little in the last year or so with regards to this. Again IMO the staking came too soon for you like trying to run before you have learned to walk.

You do IMO have the game to make money in tournaments, enough to keep a family and pay the bills I'm not sure, one thing for sure you need to conquer the BR management aspect of the game before trying again.

You could of course look for new backers and again be successful for a while until the variance kicks you in the face or you are dropped again (once bitten twice shy), be smart mate get a job however long it takes and only play poker with money you can afford to lose.

I do wish you well mate, sort yourself out with the BR management and I'm sure many would like to have a piece of you if you need it to take you to the next level.

Sorry to be so blunt but sometimes its for the best. GL bud.

Ray

K8LOU · May 2014

Cheers for the replies every1, should be back on my feet soon hopefully. Just to clarify I was not dropped by my backer they stopped the mtt stable as a whole, I was a consistent winner.

Tikay10 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

I think you need to take a deep breath, and put your full time poker dream on hold for this year. Go to the job centre get advice on benefits and write a CV. Not sure where you live, but the job market is picking up. You might have to swallow your pride and take a low paid job but it will pay the bills. You could also look at setting up your own business again help is available. I have been there, it is tough but if you get help and are willing to be flexible something will turn up. Volunteering was an important part of me regaining confidence, it also keeps you busy and can be very rewarding. Play poker for fun, and try to remain positive. Not sure if it's what you wanted to hear, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck. Daggers
Posted by daggers747

LOVE this Post, & echo the sentiments entirely.

scotty77 · May 2014

Everyone in poker looks for an easy fix. That's why staking sites are so sought after.

My first advice would not be so dismissive of looking for the job. It seems like you already made your mind up in the OP that the job market was a tough one. Don't be negative about your prospect and the skills that you have to offer. You don't know until you try.

Fwiw anyone going 'pro' without a £10kBR and 6 months of living costs stored away in a non poker bank account really is being naive about the game.

My advice would be is to find an income and then rebuild slowly from there, in low variance fields. Poker isn't going away and the stability of a regular income will make you play better too.

omm · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

Hi K8 I was wondering what happened to you lately and sorry to see that it's not good news . I'm no expert on staking but once that deal ended the 2K you had is no way enough to try to run solo. But what to do now? You have to get a job. Any job that will give you a regular income. But unlike omm I know it isn't as easy as he says. I'm having to look for work now myself and I'm guessing the job situation in Liverpool is much the same as in Bolton. Contact the job centre make a claim for JSA and they will fix up an appointment with a careers advisor at your local office and you can take things from there. At least if you are claiming benefits then your rent and council tax will be taken care of. There's a few members of TPT (yes profman he's already a member of TPT) use Skype if you want advice about anything. I've not joined in yet myself but I am on Skype. Good luck with things and please keep us informed how things are going.
Posted by FlyingDagg

Fair point Daggs, I shouldn't have been so presumptive, it's possibly easier getting a job in the south east than up north. Although people may not be able to get jobs in there chosen field but that does not mean that there are no jobs, sometimes as a quick fix you have to take any job. It happened to me a few years ok, I couldn't find a job in retail management which is what I have done since I left school but while I was searching a took a job as a delivery driver for Ocado- it was better than being on benefits and I only done it for 6 weeks until I found a job in my field. The point I was trying to make was that jobs are available depending on a persons attitude towards getting a job. Maybe not put in the best of words.

FlyingDagg · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

In Response to Re: Going broke : Fair point Daggs, I shouldn't have been so presumptive, it's possibly easier getting a job in the south east than up north. Although people may not be able to get jobs in there chosen field but that does not mean that there are no jobs, sometimes as a quick fix you have to take any job. It happened to me a few years ok, I couldn't find a job in retail management which is what I have done since I left school but while I was searching a took a job as a delivery driver for Ocado- it was better than being on benefits and I only done it for 6 weeks until I found a job in my field. The point I was trying to make was that jobs are available depending on a persons attitude towards getting a job. Maybe not put in the best of words.
Posted by omm

You make a fair point too but job hunting is very much a personal thing and I don't think you can generalise. Like they say it's grim up north (still)

THEROCK573 · May 2014

peope think getting a job is so easy, well its not i live up north myself, unless u no someone or are giving somebody a seeing too u have no chance cos the jobcentre are the biggest waste of space in the world, i havnt had a job for 2 years, my circumstances are different, i have no trade or anything or good qualifications apart from a couple of level 1 NVQs which are of no use, i also have criminal convictions for violence and drug offences which im not very proud of but employers dont give 2 s***s about giving people a second chance in life they just pass judgement straight away and throw ur c.v in the bin once they have crb checked you .ive lived off poker for a year now cos claiming benefits while making money gambling is plain wrong in my opinion, fortuantly i still live with the old fella and dont have bills to pay other than a bit of lodge so im under no pressure like k8lou is, i feel very sorry for his predicament and i think people need to wise up if they think he can just pop down the jobcentre on monday and they will have him a job to jump straight into.

waller02 · May 2014

If you are not too proud to work for minimum wage then I'm pretty sure you could find a job within a month, certainly could where I live. This "there are no jobs" attitude does frustrate me because there are plenty of jobs.

A lot of ppl's attitudes are more like "there are no jobs.......that I wanna do". I worked in a fish factory for 2yrs, did I want to??? Of course not, but it's what I had to do until something better came along.

BTW.......not a dig at k8lou or anyone, it's just my opinion on the job front. Bit of a pet hate of mine!

Now that is off my chest lol...........sorry to hear about your situation k8lou, been there myself. You are a very good player and will def bounce back from this. All the best mate

bromley04 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

peope think getting a job is so easy, well its not i live up north myself, unless u no someone or are giving somebody a seeing too u have no chance cos the jobcentre are the biggest waste of space in the world, i havnt had a job for 2 years, my circumstances are different, i have no trade or anything or good qualifications apart from a couple of level 1 NVQs which are of no use, i also have criminal convictions for violence and drug offences which im not very proud of but employers dont give 2 s***s about giving people a second chance in life they just pass judgement straight away and throw ur c.v in the bin once they have crb checked you .ive lived off poker for a year now cos claiming benefits while making money gambling is plain wrong in my opinion, fortuantly i still live with the old fella and dont have bills to pay other than a bit of lodge so im under no pressure like k8lou is, i feel very sorry for his predicament and i think people need to wise up if they think he can just pop down the jobcentre on monday and they will have him a job to jump straight into.
Posted by THEROCK573

Rock - I have a lot of respect for you mate but to use a poker analogy if you have no qualifications and a criminal record then your odds of finding a job will be lower.

Try and get some job focussed qualifications in something you do want to do/are interested in and your odds will improve.

bromley04 · May 2014

And now back on track with the thread - best of luck K8 you are a very good player and things will turn a round.

robert369 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

peope think getting a job is so easy, well its not i live up north myself, unless u no someone or are giving somebody a seeing too u have no chance cos the jobcentre are the biggest waste of space in the world, i havnt had a job for 2 years, my circumstances are different, i have no trade or anything or good qualifications apart from a couple of level 1 NVQs which are of no use, i also have criminal convictions for violence and drug offences which im not very proud of but employers dont give 2 s***s about giving people a second chance in life they just pass judgement straight away and throw ur c.v in the bin once they have crb checked you .ive lived off poker for a year now cos claiming benefits while making money gambling is plain wrong in my opinion, fortuantly i still live with the old fella and dont have bills to pay other than a bit of lodge so im under no pressure like k8lou is, i feel very sorry for his predicament and i think people need to wise up if they think he can just pop down the jobcentre on monday and they will have him a job to jump straight into.
Posted by THEROCK573

im gonne be so nice to you in the chat box in future

THEROCK573 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

If you are not too proud to work for minimum wage then I'm pretty sure you could find a job within a month, certainly could where I live. This "there are no jobs" attitude does frustrate me because there are plenty of jobs. A lot of ppl's attitudes are more like "there are no jobs.......that I wanna do". I worked in a fish factory for 2yrs, did I want to??? Of course not, but it's what I had to do until something better came along. BTW.......not a dig at k8lou or anyone, it's just my opinion on the job front. Bit of a pet hate of mine! Now that is off my chest lol...........sorry to hear about your situation k8lou, been there myself. You are a very good player and will def bounce back from this. All the best mate
Posted by waller02

sorry but this is just not accurate. you must live in a big city is all i can say

ajs4385 · May 2014

I live in a small northern ex mining town. There are plenty of jobs, the only people who cant find a job is those who don't want one.

Call centres, supermarkets, mcd/s, security firms always recruiting.

Got a friend who is a builder, he cant get a labourer. He has took lads on who apparently cant get a job. Hes even had ones quit after two hours, because they would rather sit at home watching tv than do a days work.

My grandparents live on old biddy bungalow estate. Probably 100 houses desperate for window cleaners, gardeners etc. Cant get them even offering £12 a hour. Because it involves a bit of effort.

How do foreigner who can hardly speak language don't know anyone get jobs?

THEROCK573 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

I live in a small northern ex mining town. There are plenty of jobs, the only people who cant find a job is those who don't want one. Call centres, supermarkets, mcd/s, security firms always recruiting. Got a friend who is a builder, he cant get a labourer. He has took lads on who apparently cant get a job. Hes even had ones quit after two hours, because they would rather sit at home watching tv than do a days work. My grandparents live on old biddy bungalow estate. Probably 100 houses desperate for window cleaners, gardeners etc. Cant get them even offering £12 a hour. Because it involves a bit of effort. How do foreigner who can hardly speak language don't know anyone get jobs?
Posted by ajs4385

cos there cheap labour and the tramps shouldnt even be in our country

K8LOU · May 2014

Just thought I would let you guys know I have got an interview set up for tuesday for a job working as a chef(what I used to do) wish me luck...

Matt237 · May 2014

In Response to Re: Going broke:

Just thought I would let you guys know I have got an interview set up for tuesday for a job working as a chef(what I used to do) wish me luck...
Posted by K8LOU

Let us know on Skype how it goes - best of luck mate

Going broke

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