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Morning.
I really don't exactly know why the Punta Cana Final payout structure was done the way it was.
I can confirm, however, because I got the answer from Upstairs, that this was a "one off".
What would happen if they did another Punta Cana or similar? No idea - let's wait until it happens, & I'm sure, next time, everyone will make sure that all the info is clearly & properly communicated from Day One. Also, I did make every effort to let everyone know the score last weekend.
More follows.....
There were a number of things about Punta Cana that were different to what Sky Poker had previously done.
I'm not at liberty to tell you (in many cases I don't know myself) the what why & when of stuff, some of it is commercially sensitive, & the Business, whilst it DOES need to communicate well with its Clients, does not need to justify every little bit of detail.
When Tesco put bread on Special Offer, they don't always tell us why, as they don't necessarily want those pesky upstarts at Sainsbury to know.
Most of you will, or should have, worked out why some of the Punta Cana stuff was a little different to previous stuff, VLV for example.
Online Poker now has an enormously restrictive & complex Regulatory structure, & Sky Poker have to ensure they met ALL regulatory criteria.
For example, & this has been the case for some years, it is not permitted to promote "Overseas Gaming", so for Punta Cana, as with VLV, it was always promoted as a "Holiday Package". This is wholly permissable within the regulatory framework.
Now consider the Accounting procedures in a large, very well structured & organised major business such as SB&G. When the Sky Poker Head Bloke wanders into the Accountants office & says "I need $100,000 in cash, (and it IS cash) to buy a bunch of players into a poker tounament in Atlantic City USA or wherever", believe me, he is going to get some funny looks.
Partly, that was why VLV has been a headache the last few years, which is a great shame, as EVERYONE wants to do VLV.
For Punta Cana, a different approach was taken, the packages were purchased from a third party, which solved a LOT of regulatory & administrative headaches. It caused a few too, which is why some hoops have been jumped through, & not everyone liked how it worked.
But it DID work, & it worked well. Despite a fair bit of negative noise, the various Punta Cana Promotions all performed above expectation, players did want to get involved & did so in huge numbers. OK, some furrowed brows ensued, they know that, but it was a success.
It also means that those - like me - that yearn for VLV to return should not give up hope - I would say, personally, that there is now, most definitely, a much better chance of VLV returning. I'm not saying it will, but I guarantee you, it has a better chance now than previously.
I'll get the usual poo-pooing for explaining all this, but so be it, I don't mind. I think it's good to talk, & to try, where possible, & without giving away commercially sensitive stuff, to encourage dialogue & a better understanding between the Business & the Players. My views don't count for much in Head Office, I'm the water-carriers deputy assistant, so they don't always share this sort of stuff with me, but I do hope that some of this helps players understand what's what.
OK, I hope all those who won Punta Cana packages have a great time.
Meanwhile, all sorts of other exciting plans are in gestation, but first up, let's all enjoy UKOPS X1.
AS I said earlier, the Office don't share much stuff with me, & that's right & proper, but I do have big ears, & ask a lot of questions of them, so I get to hear this & that.
And I did learn that they had done a whole bunch of deep market research, including with existing players, & one of THE most requested things was more "Punta Cana" style Promos.
So that may have been part of the catalyst for Punta Cana, & we can all see how popular it was overall, even allowing for the inevitable teething probs & gripes. As poker players, we are not exactly easy to please.
So, fingers crossed, & unless I have misinterpreted the smoke signals, we may well see more of that sort of thing on Sky Poker going forward. Personally, I hope so, the buzz was awesome.
Plenty of other stuff coming along too, fingers crossed.
You spent all that UKPC lolly yet?
I honestly don't know.
I don't plan to ask, either, it's not within my remit really.
I suspect - I don't know for sure - but I fancy they might just tell me it is none of my business. I don't mind asking reasonable questions when necessary, but I'm at the time of life when I prefer to avoid ruffling feathers if I can help it, so I mostly sit nice & quiet in the corner, & hope they don't notice I'm still here.....
Pardon me asking, but it's a genuine question - why does it matter to, say, you & me, if packages were or were not taken up? Sorry if I'm missing the point.
It may have been planned all along, I've no idea.
Equally, maybe they kept one up their sleeve, for emergencies, & it was not needed? Maybe someone could not accept (or be offered) the Package for some reason.
There could be any number of reasons I guess.
One thing that made this different to, say, the old VLV Promos is that with VLV, it did not matter how many packages were won, (the more the better), as it was paid for a different way.
But with Punta Cana, if I understood it correctly, they had to pre-purchase X packages in advance - exactly "X" I assume - so that reduces flexibility, & adds a bit of a straitjacket to the whole thing.
I actually thought the old style VLV package, where the qualifiers were met at the Airport, & generally "looked after" by a familiar face from Sky Poker, was the bees knees, but all this new Regulation malarky has changed the way poker sites have to work, & there's not much can be done about that.
Again, improved Regulation is a good thing, a very good thing imo, but it comes with a few negatives, too, like everything.
By participating in the Punta Cana Satellites you declare that you are ready and able to travel to Punta Cana, Dominican Republic in order to play at the event, on or around 4th November 2014. This includes any and all documents or visas required for travel to the destination."
Or there never really was a spare package for a freeroll, and the non-accepted prize is what's being offered this coming Sunday?
It's all a conspiracy, I tell ya...
I'm genuinely try to be as open & helpful as I can here, but some stuff is outside my remit I'm afraid.
Those who won the 7 packages were obliged to take them? Quite possibly, but I honestly have no idea if they did, or did not. I'm pretty sure the Office would not reveal that sort of stuff to me. You are free to ask Customer Care, of course, but you might get a "coded" reply which says the same thing, I honestly don't know.
As to the "1 in 5" or "EXACTLY 7", which of course may be slightly different things, all I can say is that over the weekend, I tried to make sure everyone realised what the position was, & I made it clearly known here, on the Community. I wanted to make some Punta Cana Final "noise" & wish everyone good luck in the Final, so I did my homework first & had a look at the Promo Page to make sure I had my facts right. It was then I realised that there were only, & exactly, 7 Packages available, so I did all I could to ensure players were aware.
I also noticed the unusual "excess cash" thing, so I publicised that, too, loud & clear.
That was all included in the thread I started over the weekend, HERE
Note that some 13 different players replied before the Final, including a few who were actually in the Final. Not one of them mentioned the number of seats, or how the prize pool would be distributed, so at that stage - BEFORE the Final - nobody seemed troubled by those matters.
We are starting to go round & round here.
I have no idea if any of those who won packages in the Cash Kings thing were not taking the package. To be honest, I never got my head round the Cash-based Promo at all, in fact I don't think I even Posted once on the Cash Kings thread, it all looked a bit too complicated to me, with all those different "bands" & the like, & "Sky Sam" (?) was handling the thread.
Geldy can untwist his knickers now
I can perfectly understand why you (& that oh-so painful bubble) would think that, but I don't think that logic correlates.
I don't know for sure, but I very much doubt the T & C's covered that eventuality. If they did, I don't recall seeing them, do you?
It's just speculation really, at this stage, I have no idea what contingency plans the Business made, but I cannot see that they have acted improperly here. Of COURSE you'd prefer that it cascaded down, that's perfectly natural, & I'm fully understanding of your angst. We are just speculating though, arent we, "what if" sorta thing?
I'm doing my best to explain everything as much as I know, & am able, but I'm not Customer Care, & the Business won't thank me for poking my nose in.
Really, why not contact the Business via Customer Care? It might be a better way to sort it - I'm certainly conscious that I'm not helping much, but I'm on thin ice really, as the Business have procedures for these things, & won't appreciate my meddling.
In poker, as in life, what goes round comes round, so I hope that next time, it all ends a little better for you.
FAQs
Can I exchange my Punta Cana package or tournament buy-in for cash?
No. All prizes are non-refundable, non-transferable and cannot be converted to cash. You must go or forfeit your seat and package.
What if I am unable to travel to the event?
By participating in the Punta Cana Satellites you declare that you are ready and able to travel to Punta Cana, Dominican Republic in order to play at the event, on or around 4th November 2014. This includes any and all documents or visas required for travel to the destination.
I think that's as clear as crystal? If the promotion stated a prizepool of 7 seats and 1 seat is forfeited then surely the provision of 7 seats is still required? Normal allocation in the case of a disqualification (even self disqualification) is surely that the prize is given to the next highest placed? I know I'm harping on about it - and believe me I'm not normally this bulldogish - but I do honestly think that this needs looking at.
Obviously if no-one drops out then this is all a moot point - but is someone does drop out then I think it seriously needs addressing.
I did contact customer care as you suggested and have been told that it's nothing to do with me what happens to a spare package if that did happen!! They did however also give me the email address of the complaints departement which I shall be emailing later today.
Yes, I'm fully aware of the T & C's you highlighted, and yes, that's "crystal clear" even to me......but that's not the issue.
The issue is not as to whether they do or don't take the prize, on that, I have no knowledge of the facts if they did or not, your issue is what happens IF that situation arises or has arisen. That was what I referred to when I said the T & Cs don't (seem) to cover it.
I've tried to explain the position as I know it, but I can't really go beyond that, as it is a specific customer issue, & I can't become involved in how that pans out, as it is way beyond my remit.
If Customer Care could not assist - & I can fully understand why they would refuse to discuss what did or did not happen involving someone else (that would be private between the 2 parties), - then yes, "Customer Complaints" is probably your best route.
I'm sorry I can't assist further, but I am not allowed to get involved in these matters.
Just a short point.
It may not be possible to give a seat if the player can not make it.
Would it not make sense to give Rose something, for all the reasons already mentioned in this post?
Maybe at the very least, the buy in for Satelite?
I understand it was a tricky situation, as a regular Sky player - I feel it would be the right thing for Sky to do.
The reason i'm saying this is players were not giving much notice about the structure.
As in any "excess" would be distributed amongst the top 7 players.
Tbh, I didn't realise till during the game when I was railing Rose, every other Sat on sky naturally pays the excess as £ to the bubble.
I feel if Sky were to offer something, this situation could be defused.
So the format was quite different to a normal Sat on Sky.
It's based on that why I was saying atleast refunding the Sat buy in would make sense.
Avoid what happening again? Sky are well within their rights to do as they please with their tournament. Tikay did his best to get the message out that this would be an unusual bubble, but ultimately if someone doesn't check the lobby and just plays on blindly, then there can be no grumbling if they bubble (again, not saying this was the case with Rose).
I really cannot believe the fuss being kicked up here, and if it wasn't a 'name' as the unfortunate bubble then there wouldn't be a peep out of anyone.
Also +1 to what BorinLoner put. I think it's pretty sh1tty if someone has qualified knowing they might not be able to make it, but ultimately it's their prize to do with as they please.