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Compatability OF PT3 & HEM with Skys Downloadable Client
I asked about a month ago if the download version would be compatible with these programs and the tech guys said it was slightly too early to tell if it would. Was just wondering if this has advanced any since that time and if they now have an aswer as to weather or not we will be able to use them?
Cheers
Chris
* If you could ask again for me sky rich then i would be most grateful. This is a deciding factor for me as to weather or not to roll up properly for cash games on sky or just carry on playing little bits here and there as when i fancy.
Cheers
Chris
* If you could ask again for me sky rich then i would be most grateful. This is a deciding factor for me as to weather or not to roll up properly for cash games on sky or just carry on playing little bits here and there as when i fancy.
Comments
This area of the download client has not yet been finalised and there are many factors to consider, therefore there is no answer to your query as of yet.
The Integration of PT3, PO, HEM etc software has been well debated on here before, there are players who sit on either side of the fence and we will not be making a decision lightly.
I understand that this is an important question for you and many other players, as soon as we have an answer we will make it clear to you and the rest of the Sky Poker community.
Kind Regards
Adam
A speedy response to my question and although it doesn't settle the matter i do understand its not an easy proposition (due to people who don't want them on here) and also if the web browser versions, TV versions etc will all run alongside each other i presume there would be a mountain of technical issues.
I look forward to further news and would like to thank you both for taking the time to deal
Cheers
Chris
I personally believe that such "helper" programs have spoiled online poker and it is borderline cheating. Poker is meant to be a skill game and as such, we should all be on a level playing field. I feel that players should try to improve their OWN game rather than turning to 3rd party software to gain an advantage. If everyone is going to use software to make a decision, then you may as well turn the poker site into a casino.
It's not about cheating, the program doesn't show you what your opponent is holding or what's coming on the flop. It just records what has already occured. This could be done on a spread sheet but you would spend more time typing than playing so it's not really worth it..... Kinda like i could walk to John o'Groats but it would be a bit quicker to take a car wouldn't it, not cheating just using technology available as we don't live in the 1700's
Don't get me wrong, i don't disagree with such tools as long as everyone uses the same, or at least you can visibly see when an opponent is using some sort of tracking or profiling software against you. Nobody can deny that using such software gives users an advantage. Whether that is fair or unfair is another debate.
My point was that it would make a refreshing change to have a poker site where these type of programs were completely banned or at least had to be publicly declared. I mean something a bit closer to "traditional" poker where we use only what we have between our ears. Easier said than done, i know, as there will always be someone trying to take advantage of others. In reality, there's no getting away from such things on the 'net. In the "old days" we had to do our own homework and fix leaks in our game by making some costly mistakes and then thinking "hmmmm, that was a bad idea". If you lose a few quid, you soon discover your leaks.
I guess the only way to avoid these kind of disadvantages is to do as others do or simply avoid playing on the 'net alltogether.
The Hud aspects of trackers are feeding back info on the hands they collect. They are not predicting the future. They are not commenting on every player as they only have info on those you have played. You would have to have hundreds of hands against any one player for the info to even become relevant. I'm not overly bothered by the HUD part of the tracker if i'm playing one table, i will note if someone always C-Bets or constantly folds to the C-Bet. However if i'm playing 8 tables then it's a little more difficult. If i play live do i need a tracker .... no but then i'm not involved i 8 different games live and running from table to table.
Online isn't live, cash games are played multitable and although you may have the skill for the game to pick up the reads, your attention is more divided and for that the hud can be useful
I'm watching Mastercash and they are quoting stats in some of the problems?
Seriously, if you want more people to play Sky then HEM is a requirement for the site as if you use it to improve your play, you don't want your own stats messed up by playing on sites not using it, reducing the sample size.
I am happy playing at Sky, however if Sky did enable this software I would most probably move sites along with a lot of others who share similar views to me.
Sky should advertise the fact they do not allow tracking software, this would attract a lot of players to the site, I dont know why there marketing department has not thought of this already.
PS I have used PT HEM and PO before on other sites.
I don't get how someone who has used them on other sites (And is obviously a very experianced and quality player like yourself AJS) would refuse to play on a site that accepted them? if you have used then you know what they are about and at the stakes you play i would think you would welcome the statistical info they can provided you with on your own game?
Would i be right in thinking that the fish you feed off would improve a little to quickly for your liking with these programs available AJS ???? lol
On a serious note - I would like to see them introduced with the downloadable client as i have many holes in my game here that could do with fixing lol but if there not then i'll continue to play here for fun and play elsewhere for the main of my roll.
People have a slightly idealised view of why there not currently available to use here, it's not to prevent cheating or unfair advantage, there is no moral highground that sky had taken here, it's just their software can't do it.
If they want to use the lack of tracking software use on SKY as a USP then good luck to them but i'd bet that the numbers are reasonably similar in those that do want them to those that don't
I'm in agreement that the software helps you play better (or why else would i want the site to be compatable with them) but not because it's making your decisions and playing for you (which seems to be some peoples view on these things) but because it can provide the info you need to improve your game.
I guess we'll know soon enough which way sky have gone on this, and like i say i'll have no worries either way (so don't go expecting any I'm off threads in the near future lol) but i do hope they become available to use on here as i'd like to play more cash here.
You don't offer an opinion on them Dave? Do you use them at other sites? do you like them? or do you consider them an unfair advantage to those not using them? (if your allowed to offer a view as an employee)
OK, Ive used pt and po on most other sites and it is a good tool. For analysing ur own game it is excellent, but lets be honest with ourselves. The reason I use it is to see what my oppo`s are doing. When multitabling, it is difficult to make notes so pt/po/hem basically do it for you and more.
Merenovice and others who say it is not cheating.
Steroids are banned from sport as they are an aid. poker tracker is brain steroids. It is super human. No human could possibly keep track of realtime stats in their head 12 tabling. Unless you are rain man of course.
Personally, I would HATE to see sky allow tracking software. This is one of the last sanctuarys left
and i also understand there are people that don't like playing against them and this could be used as a USP for the site. Like i say i'll live either way the decision goes. It only has a bearing on the type of poker i play here and the frequency. At the moment this is a fun site for me. To commit to cash grinding here i would really want this available but i'll play a few quid here and there on the site no matter what.
Up to this point the lack of trakers has been purely a technical issue and as such not one i suppose that the powers that be have had to concern themselves with. The downloadable client obviously throws up what i'm sure is a very controversial decision for the company and one that i am also certain will define the cash & tournie play on the site.
I have a feeling my views may come out on the loseing side of this debate. The "Image" of SKY as a site for fun poker may win out, but what ever they decide I hope the answer (and the client) materialise quickly lol
Even though I am against having tracker compatability, I think it will be implemented sooner or later as I think the traffic will increase when it does.
I am under no illusions here, and when/if it comes into practice I fully expect my winrate to dip significantly and have no reservations admitting that. Even though I will be using pt myself.
I dont think I am alone here either, and most of the others who dont want pt is for the same reason. There are ppl who have posted on this thread who have mastered multitabling with no tracker support, so why would they want ppl coming along who are basically better `statistics analysts` than them.
I think there are many ppl who would leave this site if pt came into use, but I think more ppl would sign up to outweigh it.
That is of course if `cash for points` was seriously overhauled to bring it in line with competitors.
I think if SKY weigh it up and decide not to restructure Cash for points then they may also decide that high rake players who survive off that type of thing are not their target market, thus leaving the site a Fun Zone and no need to bring the trackers in.
Ah well only a month or 2 until launch of the software so we will know by then i guess
Holdem manager does not tell you what to do, it will not make decisions for you, It will not make you into a winning player, it simply provides stats and allows you to make a decision based upon them.
such stats are:
The percentage of hands a player is playing
How often does he/she fold to a c-bet
how often does he/she fold to a steal
All the above info you could get yourself just by watching the table and making notes.
I don't see why people have a problem with it especially when the software is there for everyone to use.
I would also like to mention that this software is pretty much useless for things like mtt's and sng's because of the blind structure and the fact that people play differently depending on their stack to blind ratio.
Salazar
Debatable.
If a 63/58/4.5 open shoves pre and you are holding AK, you are instacalling.
If a 5/4/3 open shoves pre and you hold AK, you are instafolding.
There may not be a voice or text actually telling you what decision to make but its the same thing.
It is only a tiny step away from being a bot.
I understand what you're saying but the 2 sets of stats that you give are at each end of the scale and to be honest with you, you wouldn't need HEM to tell you that one guy is playing like a maniac and the other hasn't played a hand since last week.
Salazar
So sky I see you have 2 choices
1) Enable tracking software get into a rakeback war and attract more regs, you will see a short term increase in volume (not always profit as these nits will constantly pass the blinds round pots will small and therefore rake will be.) These players will stop a couple of months and then go to the next place offering a good rb deal.
2) Dont allow rakeback or tracking software, Invest in marketing and attract casual players who play for fun, without people willing to spend there is no industry. Attracting these players by advertising the fact there is no tracking software on sky and by investing in marketing will ensure the long term prospects of the site and profits will be greater as pots are bigger. Also no need to give half of your income back to these players.
From a personal point of view tracking software will see my winnings grow in the short term as my edge will be greater and I would love to see 55% rakeback that I have at a Ipoker skin as again my short term profits will grow. However, I dont want to see these changes implemented as it is not good for the long term of the poker industry.
I dont know what sky's plans are for the future but I hope they seriously think about what they are wanting to achieve in the long term.
I`m not sure they would advertise the fact that sky doesnt allow tracking software though. They would want to keep their options open for the future. Advertising no pt etc is effectively closing that door as they would be slammed if they reversed their decision.
55% rb? is that with plex?
If sky does take your view and decides that not allowing HEM is the best way to be different, I think they should still get the download version, enable tables to be re-sized (for people who haven't got 3 monitors), and introduce an instant hand re-player to enable people to take notes easier.
Salazar