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PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.
I was chatting to Sky Peter last week, he is responsible, largely speaking, for the MTT schedules on Sky Poker.
He seemed keen to try & rev up the PLO (or PLO8) MTT's here, preferably PLO, but I suppose PLO8 too.
At present, Sky Poker have a very limited PLO & PLO8 schedule.
Could or would a better schedule interest enough players to make them worthwhile?
It's a blank piece of paper, but a few things to consider......
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Comments
PLO, PLO8, or both?
Once per week, twice per week, alternate nights every night, PLO Monday, PLO8 Tuesday & so on, maybe a Sunday "biggie?
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Guarantees?
Guarantees are two sided. They DO help bring in players, but if they fail, then they effectively kill the Tourneys.
Worth considering both sides of that particular coin.
Personally, Guarantees don't bother me one iota, either way.
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Freezeouts?
Single rebuy & add-on?
Unlimited rebuy & add-on?
Personally, I think PLO needs to have rebuys & an add-on, or, failing that, a good deep structure. PLO8, no, not so much.
But those are my views, which are irrelevant, what are your views?
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Structure, clock?
Personally (not relevant) I think PLO & PLO8 needs a decent structure & clock to make them playable.
Good structures, though, mean they take longer to complete.
More follows.......
Also, remember we have a really thriving PLO & PLO8 community here, in MTT's & DYM's (more so PLO8 at present, of course, but that could change). It's mostly - well all - micro-limit, & that's cool & dandy, but many players would not be interested unless the buy-ins were a bit bigger - say £10 or £20.
And we must all remember - if the site were able to rev up PLO & POLO8 MTT interest at buy-in levels above £5, it would definitely damage liquidity at the current lower levels. I'm quite certain of that. So in gaining bigger & better MTT's, it might well be at the expense of traffic at the current levels.
For balance, of course, it might also attract more traffic from the NLH boys, the so-called "MTT grinders", who want to add stuff to their nightly/weekly schedule, & who may find it a bit more interesting than the 2 card game.
Finally - you'll be pleased to know - it's not what you or me want that matters - it's what we think would generate the most interest. Those two things are rarely aligned.
Views & opinions invited.
imo..
you first have to culture a habit.
basic rules:-
only two daily mtts; one plo, one plo8
every day of the week without fail
at the same time each day
commit to a long period of guarantees
next...
do not have deep structures
entry fees £11 (and one rebuy, only one)
same structure for both plo and plo8
also...
promote the events
run league tables
give daily, weekly, monthly awards
summary...
if your wish to attract new players (or those who play infrequently) do the above. if you want to reward existing players then do something different to above.
Good morning Tikay,
I think that the PLO8 tournaments we have at the moment are all the same structure. having played the FOSP tournaments, I personally would like to see at least one tournament per evening with a deeper stack than 2K. The FOSP has 3K. I would probably pitch this at £2.25 or £3.30, to make it as affordable as possible for everyone. I know we have a £5.50 GTD, but this does not achieve the numbers that the £1.10 tournaments do.
I think that we have, through the efforts of Brian and his Thursday league, a growing number of PLO8 players on the site. The £1.10 tournaments allow for folk to dip their toes in the water, so to speak, but the £5.50 is usually PLO8 regs.
I don't think that PLO itself is as popular as PLO8, at this moment on the site. My only PLO experience is the freeroll, which has too short of ablind structure(3 Mins), to actually allow any sort of strategic play. An affordable, dip your toes in the water, £1.10 tournament might attract ploppers and NLH players to give it a go.
My own personal preference, along with the current set up, a £2.25 deepstack PLO8 tournament, 4K stack 10min blinds, and a £1.10 PLO, 3K stack 10 min blinds.
Craig
As most of the PLO(8) regs are micro buy-in players, why not have some low buy-in PLO & PLO8 MTT's running with prizes for larger (£20+) buy-in MTT's once a month.?
hi craig,
i acknoledge that it is quite audacious for an outsider to start making up the rules. so i hesitated commenting. but there again, i am an outsider having played only 100 plo mtts and players like me are your target. i guess.
why not look at this issue by assessing what would discourage your targets to join in. then the question is easily answered.
target players would not join in if...
daily scheduling was sporadic
games lasted an awfully long time
times changed each day/week
plo and plo8 are structured to appear very different games rather than very similar
the buy in is too low, the winnings are too low. why bother? income per hour rate means target players might not waste four hours of their time for a below minimum wage return
employ intrinsic and extrinsic motivators, i.e don't ignore recognition.
I have posted elsewhere on this and I believe that it should be possible to offer Sky as a niche site for PLO(8) enthusiasts without busting any marketing budgets for which NL will always win the battle as that's where the real traffic is.
So to attract PLO(8) players from other sites, I would suggest:
A flagship once a week £33/55 BI with a good structure and satellites through the week?
A nightly £5/10 BI with a rebuy?
£20/£30 dyms?
Make sure every UKOPS has 1 PLO and a PLO8 tournament side event?
For the mere mortals like myself who just play out of interest and to play in a friendly environment at low stakes, I would say more of the same. The above would at least give us something to aspire to and entry to the flagship tourney would be a great incentive for the FOSP sundays and Thursday PLO8 league nights if it could be arranged as a monthly prize?
Macacgirls 100 challenge was popular so we could do with something similar?
"....Macacgirls 100 challenge was popular so we could do with something similar? ....."
For those unfamiliar, it was a 100 game DYM challenge (could equally well be MTT's) based on best ROI over 100 games.
To a degree, it was run on trust, it was self-policed. No prizes, just bragging rights. It was immensely popular.
As a fun player myself, I would prefer a deeper structure, but as stated at lower stakes, much like the popular £2.25 deepstack NLH tournaments.
As for flagship tournaments, then I agree that it would probably be a quicker structure required.
I would say though that it shouldn't be at the expense f the microstakes players, who have brought the profile of PLO8 to where it stands at the moment. When taking it to the next level, which is what I guess we are trying to achieve, I would suggest that we should be careful to not throw the baby out with the bath water.
how about a main/mini set up each day. every day.
You might get some inspiration here ...
https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/team_pokerstars_blogs/marcin_horecki/2014/the-benefits-of-learning-mixed-games-148461.shtml
http://www.bluff.com/magazine/the-pros-pro-matt-ashton-17032/
£2.30, £5.50, £11 one of each every day at set times with maybe £22 (or higher) at weekends.
I think guarantees would help, although appreciate Sky would have to start low to test the water and consider increasing after that. I know fingers were burned with the UKOPS guarantee but a daily buy-in guarantee needn't be so challenging to meet (in my extremely humble opinion).
Would the occasional PLO be an option for the Tuesday live show or is a) too niche still and b) technically not possible still?
On one hand you need decent guarantees to attract the Holdem crowd and on the other if the guarantees don't get met then it could fail before its off the ground.
Also just to muddy the water,, if the buy-ins are too big then you will alienate the very people who make PLO8 such a success.
I agree with the need for satellites, I am one of the players who is quite happy playing low stakes, but as with NLH, I like to satellite into the bigger tournaments to test my skills against the big boys.
Structure wise agree with both sides above, don't like shallow structure, 2k just not enough play, but equally wouldn't want it too deep.
Funnily enough Ivan whilst playing a £3.30 PLO8 tourney yesterday I was thinking wouldn't this be more fun if it was a bounty hunter, but I straight away dismissed the idea as the 2 sets of styles/players seem at polar opposites or is that an incorrect preconception of mine? be interesting to hear others thoughts on this as it would definitely attract NLHE players as they are just so popular.
firstly, the PLO 5.5 and PL08 5.5 nightly are short tournaments.
one person has already commented that he cant be bothered to play 2 x 5.5 with small prize pools. I don't see why. a 100% win rate is the same regardless of the total prize pool.
if you increase the guarantees, whose going to turn up?
personally, giving the PL08 crowd more of what they want cant be bad, if they know?
knowone wants to play more PL08 on thurs eve, I asked that question the other day and got one reply and they didn't want any more games (on thurs eve)
add a few more PL08 games around the sunday league 3.3 could be a good idea as they're already players coming for that.
a monthly flagship PLO/PL08 tourney would be good. I don't see want the point with the BH format would be. plys go after each other anyway, they don't need encouraging (do you really want to be flipping every 10 hands or so?)
NL08 and NL08 BH formats are ridiculous, edges are less, flips more often=more losing to the rake, which is the primary reason knowone plays PLO/PL08 SNGs />£11, the skill difference is less than the rake (unless TK is playing!).
I like the idea that small sattelites (not AIPF ones) could lead to a flagship event, and the league winners of say 2.2-5.5 weekly Ts could win entry.