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forum future
hi tikay,
four questions related to the forum
a) for tv shows, are forum posts now totally pointless?
b) looking at posts or threads or views, is the forum in decline since the c861 closed?
c) who from the company looks at the forum? i read that many people no longer do.
d) could you give us some idea of what has happened to the forum please? is it the place to be? what are the plans from a company perspective?
thanks.
Comments
Crikey, that's an interesting one, & it will begat more questions than answers.
First up, I'll try & reply to that, then I'll move it on a bit, as it does beg a whole series of other questions really.
As chance would have it, the timing is pretty interesting too, as you will shortly see in my supplementary, after I've replied to your 4 questions.
please note that it wasn't designed to be a hospital pass. i hope it doesn't turn out to be.
a) No. If I see any questions about or to the Show, I try & reply to them. There was one yesterday "Live to Show e-Mail" & I replied to that. If any questions arise DURING the Show that are relevant to the revised Show & format, they MAY be read out on the Show, there's no rule saying "don't". Fair to say, though, the Forum is not monitored much during the Show, there's simply not time, & for the current Show, with a far wider reach, most of whom do not have Sky Poker Accounts (part of the whole idea of course) Social-Media is a much more potent platform these days.
b) I've no idea. I suspect it is in decline as to number of Posts (but see my subsequent reply, later), every UK facing poker forum is seeing a decline in post & view count. A look at THM, once the mightiest of mighty UK Poker Forums tells us that, & most other Poker Forums are in decline. I actually have an interest in one elsewhere myself, & it's quite a struggle to be honest. There used to be a weekly report in the Business, which stated how many Posts, views, most popular, new Posters etc. I've no idea if it is still produced, if it is, I no longer get to see it, & it's not for me to ask to see it.
The change from 861 to Sky Poker TV, which has a different focus, & just one show per week instead of 3, would undoubtedly have cost a lot of Posts. I would guess each Show Thread had an average of 75 Posts, many of them driven by "Last Longers" & the like, so that's over 200 Posts per week gone. However, the idea of the Community was never, & is not, primarily tied to the TV Shows, not at all. It ought to be able to stand on it's own feet, with or without TV Shows.
c) I don't really know. Most of the Team up in Head Office look at it when time permits, some more than others, just as a means of keeping in touch with mood & vibe. I don't believe anyone in Head Office is mandated to spend much or any time replying though, they have other responsibilities. I monitor it as much as I can, & if I see any thread which I think the Office needs to see, I send it up to them immediately. I would estimate I send up, on average, 4 or 5 threads each week for their comment. Generally, they reply to me, & then I stick it on the Forum. So if anything which crops up needs the attention of the Suits, they either see it themselves, or I send it to them. When you say "I read that many no longer do" (monitor the Forum), I don't know where that comes from.
d) I don't quite understand the first 2 sentences, so I'll skip them for now, but will reply if I get to understand them better. It's the "place to be" if Customers want to, it's up to them really. Plans for the Forum? Continue, as far as I am aware, I hear & see all sorts of things being discussed & reviewed by them every day, but I've never heard anyone up there say they have any plans to close it or curtail it.
I should add here, before I move on to the other issues I'd like to mention, that amongst the motley bunch of little responsibilities that sits with me is helping, or trying, to make the Community a place players want to visit, to help facilitate that generally, & try & encourage a good vibe, & a bit of fun to add to the poker experience. Think that might be a FAIL down to me then, but it's not for want of trying, I try & answer all reasonable questions, & encourage a good atmo. Bear in mind it has a very limited payback, & even that is very hard to measure or quantify. But The Business DO think it has merit.
I have a sort of little, informal, "budget", to award Community Prizes for League & Competitions & the like. I don't have to seek permission, in truth, they don't need me writing to them every day asking for £50 here or £100 there, so I just work on my own initiative, & try & promote fun things, be it Leagues run by players, or Forum Comps such as last week's Golf Comp. And if someone wants to suggest any sort of fun-based Community Comp, hit me up, & I'll look at it. I almost never decline to add a prize or two.
Over & above EVERYTHING in this, The Business sees the Community as exactly that - belonging to the Community. If people don't want, or prefer not, to post stuff, there's not much The Business can do about it, beyond what they already do - which is to delegate to me the responsibility to try & keep the place upbeat.
Anyway, I'm going to make an interesting point now, bear with me please.
Have you ever wondered why almost no other Poker Sites run their own Forum these days, & why most have closed down?
They really can be a double-edged sword, they are most certainly NOT designed to be a replacement for Customer Care, or a place, managed by the Business, where people can come on & say "your site is a scam".
Poker players everywhere seem to have a great sense of ownership, but that sometimes becomes an exaggerated sense of entitlement. It's just how society is these days, good in some ways, not so good in others.
And because players ask questions which seem reasonable to them, it causes a great deal of angst.
Here's a wonderful example of the dilemma it causes. This happened yesterday & today, so its very topical. It happens all the time though, every week, & it don't 'arf cause some head scratching.
Example follows.......
There is currently a Promo running, called MAYHEM FREEROLL.
It's aroused a lot of interest, & no wonder - a bunch of Freerolls, 4 Las Vegas Packages, & thousands of pounds of cash prizes. What's not to like? And all the feedback has been positive. It's working, too, meeting it's business objectives. All good then.
But then a strange thing happened. Someone noticed that the winner had changed, seemingly demoted to 2nd. So he made a Post, & a perfectly reasonable one, I'd say. "Why was that?" he asked. Fair question? Yes, of course, nothing wrong with that.
I never knew the answer, but I knew only too well that this would cause furrowed brows, some things are not really intended to be shouted from the rooftops. This was one of them.
I saw the question after last night's Show, so first thing this morning, I sent it up to the Suits.
I said, effectively, "the players want to know why this happened".
I never knew the reason, & it's certainly & absolutely none of my business to ask. But I had to say to the Office "look, the question has been asked, I don't know the answer, but we have to reply now, as the dogs will be barking".
So the person I sent it to replied to me, cc to someone else. They both then replied to me, explaining the reason, & then I suggested to them "look, I think we ought to answer, even though we don't have to, if we don't, conclusions of the wrong variety will be jumped to with alacrity".
In all, incredibly, 7 e-Mails went back & forth, up & down, round & round. Their main concern was it was a private matter between The Business & the winner, & there was no desire - this was the big concern, nothing else - they did not wish to see the original winner ridiculed in any way, shape or form. The winners reason for declining are not known to me, & none of my or anyone else's business.
So, eventually, they said words to the effect, "yeah, go ahead on that basis, but please, we don't want the original winner being dissed, he/she has their reasons, & it's entirely their decision".
So I replied accordingly. And guess what the first 2 replies said?
"ha now that's crazy".
"Sky should be more flexible with these things".
And so, there you have the double edged sword. The original winner is instantly dissed. That's WRONG, & now I wish I had not replied. It's personal, between the winner & The Business. The prize pool was X, & every penny has been paid out.
And Sky Poker then get criticised for "not being more flexible".
Why?
The T & C's were abso 100% clear in the event that a winner declined, or was unable/ineligible to take the Vegas package. Nobody was forced to enter.
So the player is being criticised, & so are Sky Poker, who done nothing wrong. And a great Promo is now being criticised.
And there we see why most sites no longer run tied forums.
I could repeat different versions of that story every single week.
The Business remains committed to maintaining the Forum as far as I am aware. The players have a responsibility too, though. If they want the place to continue, they need to do their bit, too. Forums are as good or bad as those who post on them want them to be. If players want to see a nice thriving Forum, they each need to do their bit, as so many already do.
I could name a dozen or more who really work hard on the Forum to post interesting stuff. Leaders, community builders, all of them.
I could also name players who have never made any effort to contribute.
There is one player who has made dozens of Posts, scores of them, & except for 1 or 2 competition entries, he has never said one positive thing about anyone or anything. Not one. Abused the Business, abused other players, been rude about everything & everyone, The Business, the players, the Forum, the Mods, all of them. Every Post. And what would happen if The Business chat-banned that chap? There'd be more negativity towards The Business. (And no, he still retains his posting rights).
A real interesting conundrum, imo.
thanks tikay for such a detailed reply.
i didn't expect much more than (a) yes (b) maybe (c) no idea etc
i am interested to know more about the views. i don't really know whether there are half a dozen or 250,000 people reading this post. the "feel" is that there are not many people.
if it is half a dozen i need to review my life plan and time to get a proper job.
Other than poker, I've used a number of forums in the past, and it's true, the people make it. What does the forum need to keep it alive, so we know we're not all just sat at home in cupboards crunching numbers? The simple answer is to ask yourself. Why do you come on here? When you do, which bits do you like best?
For me, I personally always pop into poker chat. I don't always comment on stuff, although a 'like' button would be nice. Just to say 'Hey, I read this and appreciated it, even though I have nothing to add'.
I also like interactivity. You know the photo caption thingys? I'd like to see more of that. Not necessarily a prize one. I may even start my own. I also like to know how the Sky poker playing team are doing. Why did Ri-Ri bust out 3 places after me, even though he had a good stack at the time?
I've no doubt people come here for lots of different reasons, but the internet has always been the same people, content and dynamism (is that a word?). You know what I mean, there has been some change since you last looked.
Anyways, that's me.
Bench
So what would YOU guys do if this Forum was your responsibility, it is were part of your business?
There used to be a lot of "you close Forum threads too readily".
So I argued the point with the Suits, & eventually, they said "ok, fair enough, we will try it your way". And the amount of "Closed for Discussion" threads had declined dramatically.
But remember one thing. If you go into Tesco or Asda every day & shout & scream "this place is rigged", or "justify the reason why baked beans cost more here than at Lidl" do you think they'd allow that to continue?
It's a very delicate balance.
Views? I have no idea. As I noted earlier, I used to see a weekly report on Views & Posts, but I've not seen it for 4 or 5 years now.
On every other Forum I know & use, including the one I'm mostly associated with elsewhere, the Views & Posts are visible to all. I wish that were the case here, but it's not, & all we can do is play the cards we are dealt. I argued the case for better Forum Software 6 or 7 years ago, & it got me nowhere, in fact it did me harm I think, so I can't bang that drum any longer.
If this Forum software much good? Course it's not, we all know that, but it gets the job done, & it's the only deal in town.
So we - the players, The Business, me, we can try & make it work, or we can just give up on it.
Really, it's what the players make of it that matters. They have that power.
Has the new sky poker format worked?
My own perspective is:-
Although I am a contributor to the site, because I don't have access to Sky Sports I feel alienated.
861 was a family and the presenters were part of our living rooms.
The fun has gone out of playing! there is no difference between other sites except the prize money is lower.
If excluding the majority of the forum who don't have Sky Sports has worked. I'm happy for you, because you've achieved your objective to bring poker to a wider audience.
If however, you have sacrificed your regulars on a folly, It saddens me.
I am close to closing my account, because I feel treated like a statistic not an asset.
Why flog a dead horse if you don't enjoy it? That's only my mood! and I truly hope there are many more regulars who feel the opposite. but I am disillusioned by recent events and would like to know if you have achieved your goals
The forum is not dead, long live the forum!
Anyone heard anything from Flying Dagg, wondering how he went on Monday ???
As someone who posts now and again there are a couple of improvements to the software I would love, both have already been mentioned.
1. The ability to like or fav a post.
2. The number of viewers to been shown.
The reason being that it can become very disheartening when it seems no-one is reading or taking any interest in your posts and this has the potential to stop people posting, making the forum seem even quieter.
The one big advantage the Sky forum has over others, eg 2+2, is that due to the smaller number of users you tend to have a tighter connection to them. Being on Sky is like staying in a B&B, being on 2+2 is like staying in a huge all-inclusive complex.
I, for one, enjoy the forum as it is and will continue to enjoy the regular posters as I get to know their personalitites.
I don't smoke.
[QUOTE]So what would YOU guys do if this Forum was your responsibility, it is were part of your business? There used to be a lot of "you close Forum threads too readily". So I argued the point with the Suits, & eventually, they said "ok, fair enough, we will try it your way". And the amount of "Closed for Discussion" threads had declined dramatically. But remember one thing. If you go into Tesco or Asda every day & shout & scream "this place is rigged", or "justify the reason why baked beans cost more here than at Lidl" do you think they'd allow that to continue? It's a very delicate balance.
Posted by Tikay10