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Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby

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  • ajs4385ajs4385
    edited July 2015
    So Sky offer a game with no skill and huge rake and some people defend it.

    You couldnt make it up.

    We love poker because there is skill in the game dont let sites destroy this.

    The only silver lining is I get to read threads like this and have a good laugh.
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  • alex1229alex1229
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    So Sky offer a game with no skill and huge rake and some people defend it. You couldnt make it up. We love poker because there is skill in the game dont let sites destroy this. The only silver lining is I get to read threads like this and have a good laugh.
    Posted by ajs4385
    No skill? PMSL. The game is much more skillfull then sitting with 100BB's waiting for AA. When play gets deep on the spin ups it's great fun.

    I love how everyone slamming it hasnt even played it. Unfortunatly this thread is pointless is all the nitty regs are active on the forum, whilst all the reccy players who play it arnt on here.
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  • Jac35Jac35
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    So Sky offer a game with no skill and huge rake and some people defend it. You couldnt make it up. We love poker because there is skill in the game dont let sites destroy this. The only silver lining is I get to read threads like this and have a good laugh.
    Posted by ajs4385
    Set yourself a goal ajs. Write just one positive post ever. The we can all have a good laugh and says that you're not so miserable after all.
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  • bbMikebbMike
    edited July 2015
    Just in case they remove the highlighting let's keep this thread at the top of the forum board. This discussion has definitely made me consider jumping in to see what it's all about, and maybe a cash game without these nitty regs would be good fun. Or maybe some will come out to play and open up a little?

    Oh and Lambo, apples and pairs, love it!
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  • rainman397rainman397
    edited July 2015
    Good afternoon everyone.
    Has anyone mentioned the £2.20 @2.20 deepstack yet.
    All the best.
    Rainman397
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited July 2015
    @ajs no skill? It isnt Russian Roulette even on a flat table with everyone on 10BB you can have a skill edge. It doesnt take long for several players to be 50BB+ and higher so you certainly need your wits about you post flop too. 

    @alex "all the reccy players who play it arnt on here" cough!
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  • CrazyBen23CrazyBen23
    edited July 2015
    +1 to everything alex has said. and wp for sticking up for the spin up tables.

    I bet most people like them or arent bothered about them but the small percent of people who dont like them will make a lot of noise to get them removed, I agree with is that they shouldnt be in the regular filter but theyre sorting that out now anyway.

    As for accusing them of promoting gambling well ya can only laugh haha. Keep them highlighted at the top for longer as they are a new game and still most people wont of played them
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    Just drop this whole degen thing, totally lame excuse to try and get the game removed.  Just played some .5/1 and it reminded me why i stopped playing it here since last year. The most boring nit infested games ever, i;m having to show bluff after bluff to try and squeeze some play out of them. Literally managed to get to showdown with around 4 hands in the past hour, twice they had AA. Theres literally nothing more boring or tilting than what i just went through. Spin ups on the other hand are fun, quick and action filled. This is what i and many others want, we work, we have social lives we dont want to grind away at a lifeless table for 6 hours - leave them up, they're doing well for Sky whats the need to change? Look how much i raked during July, remove them and you'll lose tons of players like me as the games wont run anymore.
    Posted by alex1229
    Just drop this whole "trying to get the game removed" because not once have I said I want to remove it; Just that they no longer be highlighted at the top of lobby.

    I agree with you about .5/1 games btw. I've been playing them for the last week only because I need to reach Priority and they are definitely very boring/nitty! I doubt I'm even a winner in these games because whilst I win a ton of money uncontested I invariably try and do something stupid. But anyway, that's why normally I play 90% Omaha and 10% the Sunday tournaments on here. Therefore, these games have really no effect on my games at all, so you cannot say that it is a self-motivating suggestion. I don't know if you do or not, but do you play Omaha? It's definitely the game to play if you don't like how nitty NL cash has become - and probably more profitable than Spin Up games anyway.

    @ Phantom: True, although not necessarily. There are lots of winning poker players that are degens to varying extents in other forms of gambling. Stu Ungar is arguably simultaneously the greatest poker player and biggest degen of all time. I guess it's not just about degening either - any player can go on tilt for a while. You might come on, be playing your regular low stakes games and then "go on tilt" - the Spin Up tables are easy to find and you might end up burning through £100. I know when I was building up my roll at 20nl I could quite easily see myself jumping into 1/2 with £20 if I had gone on tilt and proceeding to blow £100 very quickly. Whereas going on tilt at 20nl, I would never be able to do that much damage. I could go higher stakes - but even then, it would only be up to 50nl. 

    I agree with you that I'm just putting out hypothesis out there with no actual stats to back it up, so maybe I am wrong. Only Sky are likely to know the figures. For now, I will concede to withdraw my suggestion. 

    @ Alex: I disagree. It was the easy option of something new for Sky to create because it probably didn't require much coding (just got to set min BI to 10bb) Yes, it's a bit of fun but not proper poker. I will concede that 100nl on sky often isn't proper poker either but then why not create a cash game with ante's? That would certainly help get rid of the nittiness and make 100bb deep actually fun again. People couldn't just nit it up anymore because you'd be winning so much more money by regularly stealing the blinds. 

    Whilst Spin up games are fun and profitable right now, imagine when it becomes Reg invested because the other games have died out? People have been stubborn so far - it's human nature - as well as not wanting to learn something new. But when you have 5 people that know what they're doing and only 1 rec at a table of 6 it will be impossible to profit.
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  • Curt360x27Curt360x27
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    So Sky offer a game with no skill and huge rake and some people defend it. You couldnt make it up. We love poker because there is skill in the game dont let sites destroy this. The only silver lining is I get to read threads like this and have a good laugh.
    Posted by ajs4385
    This is just hilarious! So what you are saying is all the top players who grind any form of the game where stack sizes are around the 10bb mark are just punting without implementing any strategy? 

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  • alex1229alex1229
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : Just drop this whole "trying to get the game removed" because not once have I said I want to remove it; Just that they no longer be highlighted at the top of lobby. I agree with you about .5/1 games btw. I've been playing them for the last week only because I need to reach Priority and they are definitely very boring/nitty! I doubt I'm even a winner in these games because whilst I win a ton of money uncontested I invariably try and do something stupid. But anyway, that's why normally I play 90% Omaha and 10% the Sunday tournaments on here. Therefore, these games have really no effect on my games at all, so you cannot say that it is a self-motivating suggestion. I don't know if you do or not, but do you play Omaha? It's definitely the game to play if you don't like how nitty NL cash has become - and probably more profitable than Spin Up games anyway. @ Phantom: True, although not necessarily. There are lots of winning poker players that are degens to varying extents in other forms of gambling. Stu Ungar is arguably simultaneously the greatest poker player and biggest degen of all time. I guess it's not just about degening either - any player can go on tilt for a while. You might come on, be playing your regular low stakes games and then "go on tilt" - the Spin Up tables are easy to find and you might end up burning through £100. I know when I was building up my roll at 20nl I could quite easily see myself jumping into 1/2 with £20 if I had gone on tilt and proceeding to blow £100 very quickly. Whereas going on tilt at 20nl, I would never be able to do that much damage. I could go higher stakes - but even then, it would only be up to 50nl.  I agree with you that I'm just putting out hypothesis out there with no actual stats to back it up, so maybe I am wrong. Only Sky are likely to know the figures. For now, I will concede to withdraw my suggestion.  @ Alex: I disagree. It was the easy option of something new for Sky to create because it probably didn't require much coding (just got to set min BI to 10bb) Yes, it's a bit of fun but not proper poker. I will concede that 100nl on sky often isn't proper poker either but then why not create a cash game with ante's? That would certainly help get rid of the nittiness and make 100bb deep actually fun again. People couldn't just nit it up anymore because you'd be winning so much more money by regularly stealing the blinds.  Whilst Spin up games are fun and profitable right now, imagine when it becomes Reg invested because the other games have died out? People have been stubborn so far - it's human nature - as well as not wanting to learn something new. But when you have 5 people that know what they're doing and only 1 rec at a table of 6 it will be impossible to profit.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    - Omaha, i agree it's fun. Played a fair bit of 5 card on stars - i enjoy it but not good enough to churn a profit.

    - Yeah it was a simple game - but i think they had the right idea behind it (fun, quick, not nit friendly) - i cant really comment on other ideas such as antes because all that stuff is more complex and would require changes in the software

    - The game almost plays as though antes exist, you lose 15% of your stack every round due to the BB/SB so this requires you to play, nit's could never be successful players in it - i can only assume thats why they're kicking off, they're only whinging because it's taken the recreational players from their games, and they're now playing something more fun suited to their style.
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited July 2015
    Ivan I 100% back you that your suggestion is not out of self interest - clearly is the case though on other "anti-spinup" threads and some comments on here.

    Games change over time and it's best to be an early adopter than wait and wait and see. Glad you do play them and are commenting from experience. 

    At the moment I feel I have a huge edge on these - even if it became a small edge Id rather play these than nitty reg infested cash.

    I agree PLO is an alternative too, have dabbled myself, feel I dont know enough to beat the game steadily, whereas being a 6max SNG player I found the adjustment to spinup cash really easy as I am used to playing a short stack and making shove/call decisions. Furthermore in this format you can reload and so only need a small edge on your ranges to make money.


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  • shakinacesshakinaces
    edited July 2015
    It definitely has a skill element to it - although still unconvinced that is enough for it to be profitable.  It feels similar to playing perfect blackjack strategy, you'll lose the absolute minimum while others lose much faster, but still will struggle to bink wins?

    Sounds like a fun tournament idea though.  Spin-Up BH games starting with 10BB just to speed the KOs up even more.  All the fun of spin-up with less incremental loss through the rake.
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  • r3dc4rr3dc4r
    edited July 2015
    +2 Alex1229

    Spin Up games are fun for recreational player like myself
    No doubt if they remain long enough they will be infested by the multi-tabling Set miners who currently inhabit the regulat NLHE cash games
    Right now they're fun so I'll play them, when they cease to be fun, I'll stop easy as that
    For those calling for their removal I suggest you do the same, if you dont like 'em dont play 'em, we'll try not to miss you too much
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited July 2015
    Just had a session playing 3 of these tables (probably longest I've played on them thus far) and made a decent profit thanks to running well on the 2/4 game! I might well make these regular games alongside Omaha for a while and see how it goes. I definitely think that there is money to be made in these games given the amount of Rec's that play them (plus I noticed a Reg playing that was way too tight)

    That being said, I'm still not convinced they're a good idea for the future of poker. Recreational players are likely burning through their money a lot faster playing these games. Losing £80 in 10 minutes is fine for winning reg's who have the bankroll to afford such a loss but can easily be a recreational's weekly or monthly spending money for poker. And the rec's that do go on heaters are likely to punt it off again in much the same fashion further down the line on the same games.

    @ Alex: Yeah, I'm talking about ante's in 100bb (or deeper) cash games. Whilst nits don't thrive in these games they make a decent enough profit through rakeback to do alright. Ante's are needed in these games so that playing a nitty style can no longer be profitable. I know it would take longer to code and implement but IMO should be a priority. 
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    Just had a session playing 3 of these tables (probably longest I've played on them thus far) and made a decent profit thanks to running well on the 2/4 game! I might well make these regular games alongside Omaha for a while and see how it goes. I definitely think that there is money to be made in these games given the amount of Rec's that play them (plus I noticed a Reg playing that was way too tight)
    Posted by F_Ivanovic

    Hooray a convert!

    That being said, I'm still not convinced they're a good idea for the future of poker. Recreational players are likely burning through their money a lot faster playing these games. Losing £80 in 10 minutes is fine for winning reg's who have the bankroll to afford such a loss but can easily be a recreational's weekly or monthly spending money for poker. And the rec's that do go on heaters are likely to punt it off again in much the same fashion further down the line on the same games. 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic

    Boo, a naysayer!

    I thought I had convinced you to stop speculating about who will lose money at what speed and the impact that will have. Wait and see. Whether these games run or not bad players and players on tilt will spew.

    I think the key to Recs trying these out is to think carefully about what they buy in for. E,g if would normally sit in 20nl with £20 - set aside £20 and play 20nl spinups and stop if they have to reload 10 times. That way the same amount is lost, if it is lost, but I expect more fun will be had on the spinup table and the rec should have a greater %chance of winning a session than vs the nitty 100bb regs.

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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited July 2015
    Unfortunately the save poker for the purer forms of the game arguement doesnt work either.

    How many more DYMs than 6max run each day?
    How many more BH than freezouts?
    How many more speed/turbo than regular?

    I have a feeling these tables will catch on.
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  • bluffulot6bluffulot6
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    Just had a session playing 3 of these tables (probably longest I've played on them thus far) and made a decent profit thanks to running well on the 2/4 game! I might well make these regular games alongside Omaha for a while and see how it goes. I definitely think that there is money to be made in these games given the amount of Rec's that play them (plus I noticed a Reg playing that was way too tight) That being said, I'm still not convinced they're a good idea for the future of poker. Recreational players are likely burning through their money a lot faster playing these games. Losing £80 in 10 minutes is fine for winning reg's who have the bankroll to afford such a loss but can easily be a recreational's weekly or monthly spending money for poker. And the rec's that do go on heaters are likely to punt it off again in much the same fashion further down the line on the same games. @ Alex: Yeah, I'm talking about ante's in 100bb (or deeper) cash games. Whilst nits don't thrive in these games they make a decent enough profit through rakeback to do alright. Ante's are needed in these games so that playing a nitty style can no longer be profitable. I know it would take longer to code and implement but IMO should be a priority. 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic


    love as the title says please leave these highlighted ( now i've played  few and made MONEY )


    MANY THANKS SKY
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  • ajs4385ajs4385
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : This is just hilarious! So what you are saying is all the top players who grind any form of the game where stack sizes are around the 10bb mark are just punting without implementing any strategy? 
    Posted by Curt360x27
    lmao

    What top players buy into games with 10bb?

    Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand.

    I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this?
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this?
    Posted by ajs4385

    I'll take that challenge - would you mind index linkig the grand though as it will probably take me about 25 years to play that many hands of anything.

    Is there an easy way of logging how many hands you have played at a specific type of table?



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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this?
    Posted by ajs4385
    Honestly you're so wrong with this - it would be true in reg infested games but when you have players punting in 40bb's with 55, how can that not be more profitable than the rake? Games don't stay at 10bb for long but even at 10bb's deep there are still edges to be had against recreationals that either fold too much (eg. players limp/fold with 7bb) call with incorrect hands (eg. low suited cards) or not shove a wide enough range. Pots are only raked when you see a flop and at 10bb you don't see many flops anyway.



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  • Curt360x27Curt360x27
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this?
    Posted by ajs4385
    My apologies I forgot MTT's and sit n go's dont exist in your world, how stupid of me. 
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  • Curt360x27Curt360x27
    edited July 2015
    Of course if everyone was playing optimally (or at least very close too) then they wouldn't be profitable but as Ivan points out there's still going to be plenty of people making pretty huge mistakes even this shallow. I think a lot of people are ignoring this fact when discussing these tables and making a judgement on whether these games are beatable or not on the basis of everyone playing perfectly. 
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  • sikassikas
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : I agree with those of you who have mentioned this - I will try to sort this out now. *Update* - unfortunately the 'regular' filter refers to the type of poker being played, IE NL, PL, Heads-Up. Because the Spin Up tables are NL they are appearing in all filters relating to NL. I don't think this should be the case and agree that the filters need some work. I am going to raise this to see if we can get something sorted.
    Posted by Sky_Dan

    The filters are silly and need work IMO - it should just be Regular (NL+PL 6max+TV tables) , HU, Short-Stack (spin-up+capped), and maybe DEEP for TV tables if theyre not already under the regular filter

    why on earth would you wanna filter for only Pot Limit+Capped
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  • ajs4385ajs4385
    edited July 2015
    These games are all about increasing rake and lowering skill edges.

    I honestly cant believe some regs are falling for it.

    Cant you all see how this is so bad for us.

    Im all for protecting fish, I would like to see buy in limited as its better to sheer a sheep numerous times than skin it once. I would actually back getting rid of 200bb tables or even having highest buy in at 50bb for sake of the long term good of the game. However, 10bb games are ridiculous.
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  • shakinacesshakinaces
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this?
    Posted by ajs4385
    Yes. This is what we need a diary on. If I wasn't such a weak-tight nit (who will DEFINITELY lose at spin up) I'd do the task myself.

    100 hands per hour, per table.  The 100k hands can be done soon enough by a regular grinder :)

    It's only the Sky-high rake that I think makes it a challenge, if that was a bit lower then the games would be a win for all, more fun for recs, definitely beatable by regs.

    Losing the 200bb buy-in tables though? Not a fan of that idea!
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  • alex1229alex1229
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    These games are all about increasing rake and lowering skill edges. I honestly cant believe some regs are falling for it. Cant you all see how this is so bad for us. Im all for protecting fish, I would like to see buy in limited as its better to sheer a sheep numerous times than skin it once. I would actually back getting rid of 200bb tables or even having highest buy in at 50bb for sake of the long term good of the game. However, 10bb games are ridiculous.
    Posted by ajs4385
    Award for most boring and deluded forum member ever in the history of internet forums?
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    These games are all about increasing rake and lowering skill edges. I honestly cant believe some regs are falling for it. Cant you all see how this is so bad for us. Im all for protecting fish, I would like to see buy in limited as its better to sheer a sheep numerous times than skin it once. I would actually back getting rid of 200bb tables or even having highest buy in at 50bb for sake of the long term good of the game. However, 10bb games are ridiculous.
    Posted by ajs4385
    Welcome to my world ajs

    I like purer forms of poker and over time...

    I have witnessed MTTs go from freezouts to bounty hunters
    I have witnessed SNGs go from 6max to DYMs
    I have seen structures in both shortened and speed/turbo/hypers introduced

    All those are better for recs and create more traffice so they stay.

    Why do you delude yourself that it wont happen to cash and that you can whine and sky will drop them?

    How many people (who have played them) does it take to keep saying they are beatable, and they do not stay 10bb for long, for you to believe you can play winning poker at them?

    I have learned my lesson from resisting change in the past and I am getting in with the new trend from the beginning - by the time the cynics and the self-interested regs like you wake up and smell the coffee I'll have made plenty of cash and will have fine tuned my strategy. Wait too long before jumping in and I'll be the shark and you'll be the fish in my pool.

    Others are right multi-table premium hand nits and bumhunters are killing the fun. These games bring the fun back, oh and just in case you missed it -they are beatable! No idea how long it will take to play 100,000 hands and prove it. I tried to see how many cash hands I had played over the last week and it only showed the last 500.


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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : Award for most boring and deluded forum member ever in the history of internet forums?
    Posted by alex1229
    hey alex,i agree with what you say about the spin ups but there is no need for mild abuse to ajs i know he's a big boy and it probably doesn't bother him but your coming across as abit crass imo
    ajs is a long time member of sky poker and doesn't deserve that nonsense even if you don't agree with what he says
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  • alex1229alex1229
    edited July 2015
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:
    In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : hey alex,i agree with what you say about the spin ups but there is no need for mild abuse to ajs i know he's a big boy and it probably doesn't bother him but your coming across as abit crass imo ajs is a long time member of sky poker and doesn't deserve that nonsense even if you don't agree with what he says
    Posted by stokefc
    He's just rabbiting on boring & deluded isnt that offensive if its true. if you dont like the game dont play it. Instead he's insulting those who play it. Seriously give it a break already.
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  • ajs4385ajs4385
    edited August 2015

    Alex do you seriously expect me not to say anything when Sky offers games that have higher rake and very little skill.

    What have you ever achieved in poker? (not having a go, its a genuine question)

    I just feel I am debating with people who have very little knowledge of the game.

    These games are a very dangerous slippery slope and before we know it there will be no skill and no long term winners.

    Also I do agree that when games do get deeper they are beatable, but how much rake has been paid to get to that point. I actually played a 2/4 game saturday night as there was about 500 quid of non reg money on the table. Plus 2/4 rake is actually not too bad as rake is capped to £1.80

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