Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer

RLT16

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : I know i only answer to Matt coz his no have right. Rlt16 can send this hand - more proof.
Posted by dialbi4

tbh dial i didnt even think about that hand like that at the time, just thought it was the type of calls you sometimes see from crazy casual recs. 

Tikay10

Just so you know, collusion can NEVER EVER be proven on the basis of a single hand. Ever.

Tikay10

This does not relate to any evidence in this thread, just something to bear in mind.

If you are a multi-tabler, & at capacity - 6, 8, 10 tables or whatever, hands up who has never made one of those dreadful mistakes when you are so pre-occupied with your other Tables, or opening up & positioning on your screen a new Table, that you inadvertently passed for a handful of chips. Then the Chatbox erupts, & you realise what you have done.  

Everyone has.
 
Once, it happens, twice, maybe, 3 times in close succession, now its getting iffy.

But once does not prove anything.
 
You'd be amazed how many scurrilous complaints are made against honest players by bad losers. And you guys need to know that probably includes you that is being complained about, & that you want Sky Poker to test these allegations properly, & not just snap ban you.

scouse_red

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

This does not relate to any evidence in this thread, just something to bear in mind. If you are a multi-tabler, & at capacity - 6, 8, 10 tables or whatever, hands up who has never made one of those dreadful mistakes when you are so pre-occupied with your other Tables, or opening up & positioning on your screen a new Table, that you inadvertently passed for a handful of chips. Then the Chatbox erupts, & you realise what you have done.   Everyone has.   Once, it happens, twice, maybe, 3 times in close succession, now its getting iffy. But once does not prove anything.   You'd be amazed how many scurrilous complaints are made against honest players by bad losers. And you guys need to know that probably includes you that is being complained about, & that you want Sky Poker to test these allegations properly, & not just snap ban you.
Posted by Tikay10

law of the land "innocent until proven guilty" me thinks, 

bearlyther

Stars changed these games years ago because of the amount of collusion in these games. Maybe sky could look to change the games so the payouts are based on chip stack.  

Fifty 50 SNGs end when there are 5 of the original 10 entrants left. At this point half of the prize pool (basically your entry fee minus the rake) is paid out to the winners. The remaining half of the prize pool is paid according to the number of chips you hold when the game ends. This gives players an incentive to accumulate chips.

Itsover4u

Iv made plenty of dumb misclicks multi tabling.... Im sure Sky are doing what is neccesary.

FWIW I made a report of an incident the other day and as far as I can see it has been handled excellently. Those cheating / angling against TOS will be dealt with by SKY as neccesary

Jac35

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

Stars changed these games years ago because of the amount of collusion in these games. Maybe sky could look to change the games so the payouts are based on chip stack.   Fifty 50 SNGs end when there are 5 of the original 10 entrants left. At this point half of the prize pool (basically your entry fee minus the rake) is paid out to the winners. The remaining half of the prize pool is paid according to the number of chips you hold when the game ends. This gives players an incentive to accumulate chips.
Posted by bearlyther

Maybe Sky think that they know what they're doing?

I've played a very large amount of these games and have seen collusion, but it's rare.

It's normally very quickly noticed and dealt with.

Experienced players such as Dialbi4 will spot it within a few games

bearlyther

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : Maybe Sky think that they know what they're doing? I've played a very large amount of these games and have seen collusion, but it's rare. It's normally very quickly noticed and dealt with. Experienced players such as Dialbi4 will spot it within a few games
Posted by Jac35

Yea experienced players will notice it and report it and thats good to hear that its being dealt with quickly.  However less experienced players are likely to not even notice it so in games which happen to have no regs in them to not notice the issue will probly go unreported for a while until someone notices.  If you change the games to chip accumulation it gives players less incentive to cheat as you earn more for the chips you gain. Whilst the issue might be rare it is still there and changing it to a game like this would help eliminate the problem.

LmfaoAllin

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : Yea experienced players will notice it and report it and thats good to hear that its being dealt with quickly.  However less experienced players are likely to not even notice it so in games which happen to have no regs in them to not notice the issue will probly go unreported for a while until someone notices.  If you change the games to chip accumulation it gives players less incentive to cheat as you earn more for the chips you gain. Whilst the issue might be rare it is still there and changing it to a game like this would help eliminate the problem.
Posted by bearlyther

But Jac makes his money from scrapping through with a handful of chips, this would be devastating to him.

MattBates

I must admit I am struggling a little with what you are saying due to language issues.

It is not relevant or not whether you are correct or not with regards to them colluding. I dont care about the evidence you post, its not relevant. It is our responsibility as players to report suspicious play providing as much evidence as possible. We then have to let sky do their job and allow them time to perform a proper investigation. 

I have no idea if they have done anything wrong and know that sky wont tell me or any other players the results of the investigation. You seem to think that because you say they are cheating that they should get snap banned. Keep sending sky the information to assist their investigation but getting mad on the forum serves no purpose. 

I hope for all that the correct decision is made in this case and all other instances where cheating is suspected.

MattBates

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : But Jac makes his money from scrapping through with a handful of chips, this would be devastating to him.
Posted by LmfaoAllin

Jac makes money?

dialbi4

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

This does not relate to any evidence in this thread, just something to bear in mind. If you are a multi-tabler, & at capacity - 6, 8, 10 tables or whatever, hands up who has never made one of those dreadful mistakes when you are so pre-occupied with your other Tables, or opening up & positioning on your screen a new Table, that you inadvertently passed for a handful of chips. Then the Chatbox erupts, & you realise what you have done.   Everyone has.   Once, it happens, twice, maybe, 3 times in close succession, now its getting iffy. But once does not prove anything.   You'd be amazed how many scurrilous complaints are made against honest players by bad losers. And you guys need to know that probably includes you that is being complained about, & that you want Sky Poker to test these allegations properly, & not just snap ban you.
Posted by Tikay10

I posted yesturday "live" coz wanny anybody who read possible watch this table and strage game patern. Wanna proof too when in lobby we have so many games this players plany 1 by 1 table always in 3

Issue resolved   Thx sky 

shakinaces

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : You sure they said they would tell you the outcome? I've reported numerous people in the past and never been told that. The outcome tends to become clear when you never see them again 
Posted by Jac35

Interested observer rather than DYM monster, more so am here in relation to reading the BOT thread at NL20-NL50, but surely the impacted players have to be told of the outcome of these investigations?

Or are we saying that if you lose money to collusion, bots or any other form of cheating that your money is gone and there is no right to refunds/compensation - the only positive outcome is that you no longer see the cheats (presuming they can't just create a new alias) and stop getting scammed out of your money in future?

Similarly it does seem a little odd that alias's can't be mentioned to at least give people the option as to whether they wish to sit and play suspect opposition.  The danger of swimming in the shark tank of online poker I suppose!

stuarty117

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

Stars changed these games years ago because of the amount of collusion in these games. Maybe sky could look to change the games so the payouts are based on chip stack.   Fifty 50 SNGs end when there are 5 of the original 10 entrants left. At this point half of the prize pool (basically your entry fee minus the rake) is paid out to the winners. The remaining half of the prize pool is paid according to the number of chips you hold when the game ends. This gives players an incentive to accumulate chips.
Posted by bearlyther

Sky had these a couple of years back they were not very popular maybe because normal dyms still were running.

Itsover4u

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

Or are we saying that if you lose money to collusion, bots or any other form of cheating that your money is gone and there is no right to refunds/compensation? 

Would be interested to see what the policy is here if sky have an answer?

I know on other sites I have randomly had money put back into my account for collusion - on one occasion I had a payment of $900

Jac35

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : Interested observer rather than DYM monster, more so am here in relation to reading the BOT thread at NL20-NL50, but surely the impacted players have to be told of the outcome of these investigations? Or are we saying that if you lose money to collusion, bots or any other form of cheating that your money is gone and there is no right to refunds/compensation - the only positive outcome is that you no longer see the cheats (presuming they can't just create a new alias) and stop getting scammed out of your money in future? Similarly it does seem a little odd that alias's can't be mentioned to at least give people the option as to whether they wish to sit and play suspect opposition.  The danger of swimming in the shark tank of online poker I suppose!
Posted by shakinaces

No

I'm not saying that at all.

I have received emails from Sky in the past in which I have been informed that collusion has taken place at tables that I've played. I have then been refunded any monies lost from those games.

shakinaces

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : No I'm not saying that at all. I have received emails from Sky in the past in which I have been informed that collusion has taken place at tables that I've played. I have then been refunded any monies lost from those games.
Posted by Jac35

Ah cool, thanks for clearing up.  Am too noddy to even spot collusion so could quite easily be getting scammed, but good to know that this would be addressed if and when cheating is proved.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : Yea experienced players will notice it and report it and thats good to hear that its being dealt with quickly.  However less experienced players are likely to not even notice it so in games which happen to have no regs in them to not notice the issue will probly go unreported for a while until someone notices.  If you change the games to chip accumulation it gives players less incentive to cheat as you earn more for the chips you gain. Whilst the issue might be rare it is still there and changing it to a game like this would help eliminate the problem.
Posted by bearlyther

I agree that it's the easiest game to collude in. I just believe that it isn't that common and people who read threads like this / don't play many dyms, can get the wrong idea.

The situation is very different to the one Stars faced. The player pool here is much smaller for one. Let's say that the risk/reward really isn't there for games under £5. Gl finding a table without at least one reg and more likely two on a regular basis at £11, £22, £33 and £55.

I think due to the stigma that go with dyms, regs are especially vigilant to colluders.

Another aspect to consider is that colluders don't appear to be terribly bright in my experience.

A little while ago on here there were two mtt experienced regs who decided to collude at dyms. She went from having a very low roi at £2/3 dyms to having the best roi on the site at games up to £55. The other player also became a winning player.

They played game after game together and it was the most blatant collusion that I'd ever seen.

At the end of the night they used to play high stakes heads up games to divvy up the cash with one losing game after game.

As I say, not terribly bright,  and the matter was dealt with quickly and players were refunded.

Lambert180

FYI, I got an email today saying that I'd been refunded some £££ due to collusion. Didn't get any more details than that so can only assume it was from the DYMs I played last month.

So I assume that means it's been resolved now.

gerardirl

I doubt Sky can answer this but I will ask anyhow.

If someone has been deemed guilty of collusion by sky Im just wondering the following...

I presume you freeze their funds so they cannot withdraw?

What does Sky do with the funds?

Ger

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

I doubt Sky can answer this but I will ask anyhow. If someone has been deemed guilty of collusion by sky Im just wondering the following... I presume you freeze their funds so they cannot withdraw? What does Sky do with the funds? Ger
Posted by gerardirl

It's situation dependant, & your question assumes that the colluders did so profitably.

A very recent case involved 2 proven colluders who lost money - they never made any profit at all. So refunds or the like were not in order.

In other cases, "open & shut", where it is conclusively proven & they are profitable, other players do on occasion get reimbursed, as has happened at Sky Poker on many occasions. (See the Post yesterday by Lambert180 above).
 
On some occasions, "freezing their funds" is too late, the horse has bolted & the money withdrawn, so Sky Poker make the loss good if it can be conclusively proven. (Not always possible).

Collusion on Sky Poker, due to the nature of the site & size of the player pool, is extremely rare, profitable collusion even rarer. 

It's poker, there is money involved, there will always be smart Alec's trying dodgy stuff. Nature of the beast. 

caveat emptor  

eon1961

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : It's situation dependant, & your question assumes that the colluders did so profitably. A very recent case involved 2 proven colluders who lost money - they never made any profit at all. So refunds or the like were not in order. In other cases, "open & shut", where it is conclusively proven & they are profitable, other players do on occasion get reimbursed, as has happened at Sky Poker on many occasions. (See the Post yesterday by Lambert180 above).   On some occasions, "freezing their funds" is too late, the horse has bolted & the money withdrawn, so Sky Poker make the loss good if it can be conclusively proven. (Not always possible). Collusion on Sky Poker, due to the nature of the site & size of the player pool, is extremely rare, profitable collusion even rarer.  It's poker, there is money involved, there will always be smart Alec's trying dodgy stuff. Nature of the beast.  caveat emptor   
Posted by Tikay10

Did we get investigated,LOL

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : It's situation dependant, & your question assumes that the colluders did so profitably. A very recent case involved 2 proven colluders who lost money - they never made any profit at all. So refunds or the like were not in order. In other cases, "open & shut", where it is conclusively proven & they are profitable, other players do on occasion get reimbursed, as has happened at Sky Poker on many occasions. (See the Post yesterday by Lambert180 above).   On some occasions, "freezing their funds" is too late, the horse has bolted & the money withdrawn, so Sky Poker make the loss good if it can be conclusively proven. (Not always possible). Collusion on Sky Poker, due to the nature of the site & size of the player pool, is extremely rare, profitable collusion even rarer.  It's poker, there is money involved, there will always be smart Alec's trying dodgy stuff. Nature of the beast.  caveat emptor   
Posted by Tikay10

Dym's are much easier to identify collusion and/or appropriate compensation amounts. Given the nature of cash, however, this must be a painstaking process (unless there are systems in place that can identify every hand). 

What concerns me and I suppose this should apply to any cheating that goes on the site, this is fraud and possibly money laundering if the said culprits have a dodgy lifestyle shall we say. I understand that any small scale fraud can just be dealt with a site ban, however, if the alleged cash bots/seating scripts/colluders are proven guilty we are taking about thousands /perhaps tens of thousands of pounds of losses. In this instance, they really should be reported to the authorities, to be prosecuted if necessary. This would stop any thoughts of registering new accounts and carrying on with the status quo which should put off any would be cheats who think sky is a soft touch. 

LmfaoAllin

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer : Jac makes money?
Posted by MattBates

Fold.

Jac35

Bullies!

TheMadMonk

Don't know how it works, if players proved to have colluded,why can't they be named?

If site came clean about the cheats/colluders they have caught on their site,it would give players a greater feeling of security,that the site are on the job,and stop cheats trying to collude on that site ,because of that (don't see the point in keeping,cheating a secret,incase it has a negative affect,I think it would do the opposite)

Like live casinos,any player caught cheating online,should have their details given to all other online sites,so a database can be built,and those players be banned from playing online poker.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

Don't know how it works, if players proved to have colluded,why can't they be named? If site came clean about the cheats/colluders they have caught on their site,it would give players a greater feeling of security,that the site are on the job,and stop cheats trying to collude on that site ,because of that (don't see the point in keeping,cheating a secret,incase it has a negative affect,I think it would do the opposite) Like live casinos,any player caught cheating online,should have their details given to all other online sites,so a database can be built,and those players be banned from playing online poker.
Posted by TheMadMonk

There are many legal & GC-inspired reasons why players are not named in these cases.
 
That won't change any time soon.

F_Ivanovic

I think I've found another one:

Hand History #1031119978 (14:43 25/04/2016)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
F_Ivanovic	Small blind		150.00	150.00	170.00
TB's mate	Big blind		300.00	450.00	1945.00
	Your hole cards	3 2
standam221	Fold
GC70	Fold
F_Ivanovic	All-in		170.00	620.00	0.00
TB's mate	Fold
F_Ivanovic	Muck
F_Ivanovic	Win		600.00		600.00
F_Ivanovic	Return		20.00	0.00	620.00

F_Ivanovic

The above was in a DYM. Surely he has to call for 20 chips more. The only explanation is that he's colluding with me. Or, wait.... he's just really bad. And has no concept of "being priced in"

craigcu12

In Response to Re: Cheat reporting sky priority team no answer:

The above was in a DYM. Surely he has to call for 20 chips more. The only explanation is that he's colluding with me. Or, wait.... he's just really bad. And has no concept of "being priced in"
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Was it a snap fold, if so he might have had the Check fold button clicked already a stupid thing for sure but some people just don't know what they doing DaveLUFC will tell you.