IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.

stuarty117

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today. : It is not right to multiply the monthly bonus by 3 as the extra points do not affect the rakeback which is based on rake not points.
Posted by Phantom66

Yea i know thats y i said i am prob wrong. Think 80% is more like it including all the priorty benefits sky werent making alot.

Nutter5932

Not one for posting on the forum often but the reflex or Liam hits it spot on I was going to post something similar, I cleared my month for 3 weeks of hard grinding DYMs in combination with the premiership promo. Now the cash grinders have a huge advantage over any sit and go player in that promotion unless they put insane insane volume in. 

I don't want to sound ungrateful but you can't just advertise triple points all month then change it because your not making as much from it as you first expected, and yes they will still be making money off it. I'll personally be back to mtt grinding tonight because of it. I can predict they will add an hours play to sngs to try  minor correction but it's still not fair. 

Just my thoughts Liam's post was much better and I'm not being ungrateful I just want a level playing field for rake races and such. Sky can see my volume last week I probably played more games than anyone on the site so it's not like I want it on easy street and just moaning for no reason. 

The_Reflex

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today. : Hi, I don't agree with all of that, but I do respect the fact you have added balance to the post. Not unreasonably, you write from the perspective of a big SNG player, & right now, you feel aggrieved that it is "unfair" on you guys. Just 15 minutes ago, over on the Prio Board, a chap with the alias "GregUK" made an equally balanced post, though on another subject, a different Promo. He is an MTT player though, & he feels hard done by that MTT players are unfairly treated in his view. (I could & will debate that, as I have in the past, but it can wait for now). Quite difficult to get something that equally pleases everyone.    Anyway, your post will be sent up to Sky Towers in the next few minutes for their perusal. I doubt they'll change anything, but you never know. TimmyRaRa did make a similar point about maybe extending the 2X Hours.  If I hear back from the Office, I'll let you know.  Thanks for being as understanding as possible, given where you sit.       
Posted by Tikay10

Thanks Tikay. I don't want to look greedy which is why I've tried to word it fairly (In my opinion everything I said is fair). I'm not just sticking up for myself but I'm speaking on behalf of all SNG players. They are all thinking what I am saying, especially full time grinders.

The problem I have is why should we settle for being treated as second class customers because we play SNG and we don't rake as much as the spin up boys? We still rake £1,000's and should be treated equally. Every current promotion, as it stands, is bias towards cash players. I know you're too professional to get in to an argument with me about this, but at the same time I know that you know I'm correct in what I'm saying.

They have the opportunity to earn treble points, we don't. 1-0 cash poker.

They therefore have it easier in the Premier League promotion. 2-0 to cash poker.

They now have the traffic from casual players and versatile pro's because their games are now more appealing. 3-0 to cash poker.

You can't disagree with them 3 statements above, can you?

I'm not having a go at you Tikay, you've had the regrettable job of having to give us the bad news, I understand that. I'm just pointing out that them 3 points above are all facts, and we definitely deserve to be given an equal opportunity to win The Premier League and to earn treble points etc.

benc

Good post flex, didn't even cross my mind how the extra points for cash during the same hours will drive all the action towards cash , so sng grinders have the double blow of less points and less action. As a side point in regards to the 'priority' promotion it essentially ends sng players hopes of keeping up with the cash grinders as well for the next two weeks, I understand sky is a business and have to rectify a mistake if it is costing too much money, but the lack of foresight that this may occur when offering such a promotion is extremely dissapointing and dealing with the mistake by just stating the promo has been changed with no detailed explanation as to why they felt this is necessary is baffling. I agree at least ensuring the sng double points doesn't clash with the cash triple points or making both structures the same amount of points would be something as at least action would stay the same as usual, but this feels like a real blow as a high volume sng grinder. 

IrishRose

I play mainly MTTs and satellites so not a great big grinder like most of you guys.  I was disappointed to see the treble points were only for S&G players and cash players with MTTs excluded.  However I decided I'd just have to give S&Gs a decent try for a week and see how I got on.  I discovered I quite liked them as to me there were almost the same as FT of a satellite game which I'm used to playing.  However I'm not and never will be a cash player as I can't quite get into the mindset of cash poker.  I've very disappointed that this promotion has been curtailed to double points for S&Gs and nothing for MTT players.

Can't understand how a business can pro actively promote this fab treble points promo and then do an about turn less than half way through the month.  To be honest it leaves a bit of a bad taste.

No reflection whatsoever on you Tikay - you don't deserve any flack for any of it - in fact I'd guess you're probably a tad disappointed yourself but can't quite say it.

gerardirl

Ive no problem with this (I know I'm in the minority) But Id prefer the points are reduced than Sky taking a loss and shutting down altogether (bit drastic perhaps) or if they tried recouping the loss by increasing rake.

Sky is by far the most enjoyable site for me and I hope it continues to make profits as I would hate to be forced to move to another site.

Even if it does make amateurish mistakes from time to time.

All good here.

Ger

jdsallstar

Pretty disappointed in this as well!

I play the small stake dyms and the new points system in general has seen the rake back I get pretty much halved and in given in the form of tokens (earn about 400 points each week). This triple point promo went a little way to make up for it so it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to see it reduced.

Whole system just doesn't have the same incentive to put in the same volume anymore (for me anyway).

Mr_Carps

Here's my 2 cents as a micro SNG player.... I appreciate this affects me like a drop in the ocean compared to the real grinders/pro's who will lose out serious £ compared to my pennies but thought I'd give a view from both ends of the spectrum. As a newbie I've not played here much I joined in June/July to get PT4 for another site and never played much maybe two weeks sporadically to get 50 points for the freerolls.I saw the premiership promo but didn't bother with it as with my stakes and volume I thought it probably pointless.I'm disillusioned with the pillaging of  the "major" site I played on by it's new owners so as Sky was my only other active poker account I thought I'd give it a try.I was delighted when I logged on to see this upcoming promo and was excited for it.Instead of going for the 50 points I thought I might get a £2.30 token...bonus.I quickly got that and thought if I "grind" I could get to 500 points and £5 so I did.I played far too many tables (I'm used to 2 max) and was down but got the £5 and had fun so I thought to myself "this week I'm going to go for 1000 points and £12.50"... I was going to play most of the day every day to achieve this and more tables when the happy hour was on.I've barely ever played cash so when I saw the reduction I haven't bothered.I appreciate Sky is a business and needs to make money etc but I can't understand how it was not researched thoroughly before the promo was offered? I would have paid twice as much rake this week as last week if there are a few players like me it mounts up but as I say it's miniscule to what it must have realised it's losing to the big boys... In summary double is better than nothing but I'm still disappointed.I too don't blame Tikay as he's also affected and just the messenger.I had the pleasure of meeting him at my 1st ever live APAT tourney in Newcastle many moons ago and was a bit starstruck then.I will continue to play most of the time here and I love the forum aspect, the community feel, competitions(I've been lucky enough to win two this week) etc and I'm hoping for more good promos in the future and I'm hoping this is just a rare blip on my otherwise enjoyable Sky poker experience!

Sorry it's a bit TLDR gl on the tables everyone

Jac35

^^^^^^

Really good post

MrWh1te

This thread is quite ironic.

Had sky announced 2x points, everyone says 'great promo'

Because they went from 3x to 2x everyone is 'that sucks'


Tough spot

The_Reflex

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

This thread is quite ironic. Had sky announced 2x points, everyone says 'great promo' Because they went from 3x to 2x everyone is 'that sucks' Tough spot
Posted by MrWh1te

If you read my post in detail, you would see that I said I wouldn't mind it moving to 2x. Not at all. But moving SNG to 2x whilst keeping cash poker at 3x is killing SNG's.

Please don't try to make me out as a greedy person, everything I've said has been fair and honest.

MrWh1te

Hi

I don't think you are greedy. I meant the feeling of the thread in general, my comments weren't aimed at you (or anyone).

I myself am disappointed too

The_Reflex

Ok cool, I may have misinterpreted your post. Apologies.

MrWh1te

I thought your post was good

The_Reflex

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

I thought your post was good
Posted by MrWh1te

Thanks mate, and thanks to everyone else who appreciated the post.

Itsover4u

I did well out of it last week.... il do well out of it still this week... maybe its the irish in me but it tis what it tis

Its a very small scale issue compared to some sites, its not Tikays fault so we could do with nobody on his back and I  am sure he will be working on revised promotion time extension... if its possible

Either way gents things could be much much worse & we have people with way more to worry about than treble or double points.

FWIW I am usually on the opposite end of these arguments 

IDONKCALLU

good while it lasted dunno what to play now cash or sng as cash triple points but dnt play as many cash hands as dyms gtd points play abit of both o well made 5k points 1st week so great promo sky 

IDONKCALLU

great post reflex 

MP33

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today. : I hear you benc, but the decision has been made, & it is what it is. Bear in mind ALL Promos here & elsewhere have a T & C  which allows them to change these sort of things without notice. The Promos on Sky Poker are as good & varied as any site I know. This does not change that, & 2X Points is still a good Promo imo.    
Posted by Tikay10

This affected me on another site a cpl of years back. It was so frustrating to get told the rules have changed when you,ve committed yourself to a promo and put time aside to take advantage of it. At least on Sky ppl get a chance to vent on the forum and actually get listened too and hopefully they can offer some form of alternative to the players taking part.

Just hope Sky learn from their mistake and future promos are better thought out (as far as i,m aware this is the 1st time a promo has been changed on here) 

ps - good work Tikay (Don,t envy your job when things like this happen)

EvilPingu

Will have to read this thread properly when not grinding. Agree that changing mid promo because Sky messed up communicating somewhere is pretty poor, and obv not a great spot for Tikay to have to make this thread.

I think a couple of extra SNG hours (Maybe 7pm-12am, and 7pm-1am weekends) would be a reasonable compromise, to keep grinders happy, while not haemorrhaging money by giving tons of extra RB to people for playing the same games that they'd be playing with normal rake as much as with triple points.

Also, this highlights a pet hate of mine, which is 10% rake on the big DYMs. The increase in liquidity during both double and triple points needs to be looked at, to see whether the current 10% rake is best for business. At present, these games only run if there's a big losing player registered, or there's promos of some description running to make playing these games worthwhile, because all the regs that play at £55 are more than competent enough to stop each other from being able to beat the rake otherwise.

My gut feeling for a long time, without having the information that Sky have, has been that dropping the rake at the £33+ DYMs and making the games more beatable would mean these games would run more often. Suddenly the reg who is break even before RB is maybe +2% before RB, is now willing to start games as he can actually beat the games, meaning more games run and thus negating the effects of dropping the rake. It would not surprise me in the slightest if the volume during the 3x points promo, and even now with just double points, shows the big DYMs would be far more lucrative for both Sky and the players with lower rake.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today. : Thanks Tikay. I don't want to look greedy which is why I've tried to word it fairly (In my opinion everything I said is fair). I'm not just sticking up for myself but I'm speaking on behalf of all SNG players. They are all thinking what I am saying, especially full time grinders. The problem I have is why should we settle for being treated as second class customers because we play SNG and we don't rake as much as the spin up boys? We still rake £1,000's and should be treated equally. Every current promotion, as it stands, is bias towards cash players. I know you're too professional to get in to an argument with me about this, but at the same time I know that you know I'm correct in what I'm saying. They have the opportunity to earn treble points, we don't. 1-0 cash poker. They therefore have it easier in the Premier League promotion. 2-0 to cash poker. They now have the traffic from casual players and versatile pro's because their games are now more appealing. 3-0 to cash poker. You can't disagree with them 3 statements above, can you? I'm not having a go at you Tikay, you've had the regrettable job of having to give us the bad news, I understand that. I'm just pointing out that them 3 points above are all facts, and we definitely deserve to be given an equal opportunity to win The Premier League and to earn treble points etc.
Posted by The_Reflex

Hi again,

Think it's wrong to suggest SNG players are treated as "second class customers". If that were the case, Happy Hours for SNG's would not exist.

The problem is that it is nigh on impossible to give players of the three basic formats - Cash, SNG's & MTT's - Promos which are equally fair. It's just not do-able, but they do try go look after all three segments.

In answewr to your later points, yes, your posts are completely fair & reasonable under the circumstances. I'm not saying I agree with all your points, but that's a different matter.
 
To be honest, the thread is a credit to all who posted, no ill manners, no "absolute joke" or any of that ridiculous "???!!!" punctuation, it's a credit to all concerned, & I doubt it could happen on any other site.       

Jac35

I haven't decided to cut my nose off to spite myself and not play tonight. Got a pub text tonight and decided that's what I wanted to do instead of sit in front of a computer. Dtm asked for a drunk post, so here goes.

The decision by Sky today is terrible. To just announce that the treble points is being reduced to double points without any explanation isn't good. At the very least they should be transparent and tell us why. I don't think it was right that Tikay should be the one to tell us. Here's a man with great integrity, I cannnot believe that he agrees with the decision. I'm pleased that people have recognised that it wasn't him who made the decision.

Reputation is everything in poker. 

A couple of years back i did a swap with someone i didn't know before a tournament. It was for 20%. Way more than I'd ever swapped with anyone before. I didn't know him and I didn't know his results. I regretted it instantly. Even more so when I went on to win the comp for about 4.5k. It never crossed my mind to renege on the deal or to renegotiate. As soon as I had his details I shipped him the money. Why? Because that was the deal.

Yes, we can talk about perspective and I totally get that. But in poker terms this is bad. 

From a personal front I can still make priority and double points are very helpful. What about the players who saw this as a first chance to get there? The players who regularly make 2/3k points a month. They put in a solid week and got themselves in a great position. Now their job has been made that much harder. How disillusioned will they be? 

What about the people who flit around different sites? I've seen a few playing over the last week who had disappeared. Maybe they will say to themselves that Sky isn't a site that you can trust.

Reflex is smarter than me. I think he has come up with the reason as to why the promotion changed. I don't know for sure as Sky haven't given a reason.

I love playing on Sky and think that they do so much right. I'm quite happy to comment in their defence at some of the silly moans. 

This is different though.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

I play mainly MTTs and satellites so not a great big grinder like most of you guys.  I was disappointed to see the treble points were only for S&G players and cash players with MTTs excluded.  However I decided I'd just have to give S&Gs a decent try for a week and see how I got on.  I discovered I quite liked them as to me there were almost the same as FT of a satellite game which I'm used to playing.  However I'm not and never will be a cash player as I can't quite get into the mindset of cash poker.  I've very disappointed that this promotion has been curtailed to double points for S&Gs and nothing for MTT players. Can't understand how a business can pro actively promote this fab treble points promo and then do an about turn less than half way through the month.  To be honest it leaves a bit of a bad taste. No reflection whatsoever on you Tikay - you don't deserve any flack for any of it - in fact I'd guess you're probably a tad disappointed yourself but can't quite say it.
Posted by IrishRose

Hi Rose,

We have had that debate several times. It's neither easy nor practical to run MTT Promos which are "equal" to Cash & SNG Promos. The MTT players did have Mission MTT last month as I recall, & Double Points on MTT's, & I daresay they will do that, or similar, again.

It would not make a great deal of sense to equally incentivise Cash, SNG & MTT players all at the same time - commercially, that would be totally self-defeating.   

Tikay10

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

Here's my 2 cents as a micro SNG player.... I appreciate this affects me like a drop in the ocean compared to the real grinders/pro's who will lose out serious £ compared to my pennies but thought I'd give a view from both ends of the spectrum. As a newbie I've not played here much I joined in June/July to get PT4 for another site and never played much maybe two weeks sporadically to get 50 points for the freerolls.I saw the premiership promo but didn't bother with it as with my stakes and volume I thought it probably pointless.I'm disillusioned with the pillaging of  the "major" site I played on by it's new owners so as Sky was my only other active poker account I thought I'd give it a try.I was delighted when I logged on to see this upcoming promo and was excited for it.Instead of going for the 50 points I thought I might get a £2.30 token...bonus.I quickly got that and thought if I "grind" I could get to 500 points and £5 so I did.I played far too many tables (I'm used to 2 max) and was down but got the £5 and had fun so I thought to myself "this week I'm going to go for 1000 points and £12.50"... I was going to play most of the day every day to achieve this and more tables when the happy hour was on.I've barely ever played cash so when I saw the reduction I haven't bothered.I appreciate Sky is a business and needs to make money etc but I can't understand how it was not researched thoroughly before the promo was offered? I would have paid twice as much rake this week as last week if there are a few players like me it mounts up but as I say it's miniscule to what it must have realised it's losing to the big boys... In summary double is better than nothing but I'm still disappointed.I too don't blame Tikay as he's also affected and just the messenger.I had the pleasure of meeting him at my 1st ever live APAT tourney in Newcastle many moons ago and was a bit starstruck then.I will continue to play most of the time here and I love the forum aspect, the community feel, competitions(I've been lucky enough to win two this week) etc and I'm hoping for more good promos in the future and I'm hoping this is just a rare blip on my otherwise enjoyable Sky poker experience! Sorry it's a bit TLDR gl on the tables everyone
Posted by Mr_Carps

Crikey - you have a long memory Mr Carps - that was 2 weeks shy of 10 years ago, at Aspers in Newcastle, only the 2nd ever APAT Event. I was younger then......

Happy memories. 

APAT is a wonderful organisation, & it was quite sad for me to have to quit my role there as Chairman, due to a commercial conflict with Sky Poker. APAT had a competitor Sponsor, so it was a bit awkward for me. 

Do you still play the APAT Events? 

 

SMARTGOAT

Just to echo the thoughts of many in this thread ... The promotion this month was an outstanding one and brought me back to playing everyday this week, after a few months off. Clearly showing the promotion was and is working as intended to increase traffic and customer retention. 

Skypoker's USP is that it takes care of its customers and offers excellent customer service, I understand a communication error has cost the company money, but in my (somewhat biased) opinion, it should've of been taken as a hit and left as it was. Investing time into this promotion to try and receive priority only for it to be taken away is frustrating, as I would not have invested as much time if i knew the promotion wasn't lasting all month. 

I've played on sky for 3 years and love it here, no complaints other than this one issue!

Snuffer

Still advertising triple points on iPad promo page, probably best to correct it

Monday 7th November — Sunday 4th December 2016

• Earn triple poker points playing all Cash games & Sit & Go's during Happy Hours
• There's 3 hours’ worth of happiness every day
• Increase your weekly Sky Poker Rewards payment

JMcCririck

My understanding was for the guys that hit 50k a month cash was 12%x3 and sng was 20%x3 on your weekly.

Now they have changed it to 12x3 and 20x2 which is 36/40 instead of 36/60.

I know its still bad for the league races and traffic but that must be skys thinking.

Phantom66

As a pretty smalll stakes rec these kind of promos normally do change my playing patterns.

In a typical week I get 100-200 pts and I am happy with the £2.30 token.

When there are double points promos I normally try and get over the 500 mark, which means I am getting more rewards and sky is getting more rake from me. Win/Win.

For the triple points I couldnt put much volume in last week and only hit 500 points. To a Sky bean counter they have lost value on me as I got the same reward I would have got under a x2 promo but they just made it easier for me.

My intention was to go for 1000+ pts this week with more time available and no mini ukops. I won't be now, in fact I will probably tone it down and settle for 100 achieved with less effort. Sky have therefore lost more value there with the decision to cut the rewards bonus as will be paying half the rake I would have. They would have made more from me than usual had I achieved 1000 under x3 points.

I dont know if that is a typical view of life, but it's mine.

It's not a major issue for me, every time sky make changes to rewards, rather than moan I try and find an angle to make it work for me.

I can see how it is a major issue for the big dym grinders, incentivised to join in a points race as for once on a level playing field with the cash grinders only for the rules to be changed on them.

Maybe the premiership  type promo should have leagues based on how you earn the points? A dym league, a cash league and dare I say it a MTT league? That way all players are incentised to put volume in and no-one is at a disadvantage compared to others in the same league? 

Jac makes a good point also about those who saw this month as the opportunity to go for priority. I expect there are quite a few in that boat, especially given the announcement that you can keep priority status for 3 months by qualifying once.

shakinaces

In Response to Re: IMPORTANT - Happy Hours REVISED as of today.:

My understanding was for the guys that hit 50k a month cash was 12%x3 and sng was 20%x3 on your weekly. Now they have changed it to 12x3 and 20x2 which is 36/40 instead of 36/60. I know its still bad for the league races and traffic but that must be skys thinking.
Posted by JMcCririck

This was my understanding on it for all levels - cash players get 6pts for ever £1 of rake paid and SNG/MTT get 10pts for every £1 - so for the cash players are the ones that are at the disadvantage ordinarily, when there are no promos running?

jdsallstar

It's an old argument that probably isn't worth revisiting but cash game rake percentage is 7.5% and 5%. Rake for sng's is 10%. 

Fancy swapping your lower rake percentage for the increased points shakinaces?