Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced

EvilPingu · June 2017

"Had Sky said that they wanted to bias this promo to a group of players which didnt include me, then I would have been fine about it. They didnt say that"

Every type of promotion is created with a target audience in mind. For instance:

Rakeraces = Regs

Prize draws = Higher volume recs

Freerolls = Lower volume/stakes recs

This is one that is aimed at everyone but favours the lower volume guys, the end goal being to get them to play more on the site, both in the short and long term - Maybe the end result is that a few players find time to start playing an extra couple of sessions a week and it brings in a bit more rake for Sky, and in the short term there's the obvious prize.

Sky are never going to explicitly say a particular promo is aimed at certain players, for obvious reasons, but literally every single promo on any Poker site will be geared more towards some player groups and not others.

"They didnt say that, Tikay said that the intention was to give everyone a chance of qualifying."

And Tikay would be correct - It does give everyone a chance to qualify, provided people are willing to put the effort in to get their name put into the hat. Would you have preferred a straight rakerace where Alvez and Donttelmum just start scoring 5k Poker Points a day and nobody else has any hope?

I suspect you wouldn't have been moaning about this last month when it would have been to your benefit for this promotion to run, given you chose to play more last month anyway. "Waaaa it's a bad promo because it isn't convenient for me this month" is a selfish argument and lacks any validity.

"The blatantly obvious priority for this promotion without a doubt is the recovery of the 7k it is costing."

This happens with every promotion that a site runs. If they didn't believe they would make a profit from the promotion, the promotion simply wouldn't exist. SB&G are a business, not a charity. Therefore, you can't use that argument to criticise a promotion that you dislike, then not criticise literally every other promotion in existence.

"I think it is absolutely the worst thought out promotion I have seen Sky do."

Remember that time when Sky decided to get a Z-List celebrity with no name value and no clue about Poker to become their Poker ambassador? Stars had Fat Ronaldo and Rafa Nadal as brand ambassadors at the time, 888 had just signed Suarez up to a similar role, so what did Sky do to compete?

Enter Charlotte Jackson.

I mean, could've given us Matt Le Tissier or something - at least people would've known who he was, and he knows hand rankings. But no, the whole thing turned out to be a raging dumpster fire where the regs on the site I spoke to were just like "Lol WTF who is she?", nobody else cared, and people were only really interested because she was being put in £1k SNGs and was probably one of the worst players on the entire site ability wise, making her effectively dead money. She made a couple of live TV appearances (might have been one, but I'll be generous and give her credit for two appearances) on 865/861, but it didn't take long for the whole ambassador thing to be quietly forgotten about for a while. Really was an epic fail of a promotion on every level, that one.

And tbh, there's been plenty of other times where Sky have done promotions at awful times. Such at that time when they were obsessed with rakeraces and decided to run them for four months in a row at the start of 2014 I believe, completely ruining the cash games. Those tables in months three and four were actually horrendous, all the recreational players had lost all their money and decided "Nope **** this" and it was six regs to a table passing big blinds around. Took a good few months for the cash games to get even remotely good again after that.

Even if you don't like the promotion, it's not the "worst ever", not by a long stretch.

You claim that you're not a bad loser, but honestly the four things I have quoted, emboldened and criticised above would suggest otherwise.

"Not only that, some players are only being asked to match their usual points score, and in other cases 10 points will increase your target by 1,000 points."

There is one thing I'll agree with you on, and that's the points tiers where an extra DYM can mean having to get 1000 points more in a week - I think setting the bar at a percentage of May's points total for everyone (Say 40% so that your volume for the week has to be higher than your previous month average to qualify, which is the whole point of the promo) with a floor of 50-100 points would have been a fairer way to get around the points jump issue.

That is definitely a reasonable criticism of the promotion. I don't think it's a complete deal breaker in the same way that allowing people to play Russian Roulettes has ruined certain other promotions in the past for instance, but it could definitely be better IMO.

HAYSIE · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

" Had Sky said that they wanted to bias this promo to a group of players which didnt include me, then I would have been fine about it. They didnt say that" Every type of promotion is created with a target audience in mind. For instance: Rakeraces = Regs Prize draws = Higher volume recs Freerolls = Lower volume/stakes recs This is one that is aimed at everyone but favours the lower volume guys, the end goal being to get them to play more on the site, both in the short and long term - Maybe the end result is that a few players find time to start playing an extra couple of sessions a week and it brings in a bit more rake for Sky, and in the short term there's the obvious prize. Sky are never going to explicitly say a particular promo is aimed at certain players, for obvious reasons, but literally every single promo on any Poker site will be geared more towards some player groups and not others. "They didnt say that, Tikay said that the intention was to give everyone a chance of qualifying." And Tikay would be correct - It does give everyone a chance to qualify, provided people are willing to put the effort in to get their name put into the hat. Would you have preferred a straight rakerace where Alvez and Donttelmum just start scoring 5k Poker Points a day and nobody else has any hope? I suspect you wouldn't have been moaning about this last month when it would have been to your benefit for this promotion to run, given you chose to play more last month anyway. "Waaaa it's a bad promo because it isn't convenient for me this month" is a selfish argument and lacks any validity. "The blatantly obvious priority for this promotion without a doubt is the recovery of the 7k it is costing." This happens with every promotion that a site runs. If they didn't believe they would make a profit from the promotion, the promotion simply wouldn't exist. SB&G are a business, not a charity. Therefore, you can't use that argument to criticise a promotion that you dislike, then not criticise literally every other promotion in existence. "I think it is absolutely the worst thought out promotion I have seen Sky do." Remember that time when Sky decided to get a Z-List celebrity with no name value and no clue about Poker to become their Poker ambassador? Stars had Fat Ronaldo and Rafa Nadal as brand ambassadors at the time, 888 had just signed Suarez up to a similar role, so what did Sky do to compete? Enter Charlotte Jackson. I mean, could've given us Matt Le Tissier or something - at least people would've known who he was, and he knows hand rankings. But no, the whole thing turned out to be a raging dumpster fire where the regs on the site I spoke to were just like "Lol WTF who is she?", nobody else cared, and people were only really interested because she was being put in £1k SNGs and was probably one of the worst players on the entire site ability wise, making her effectively dead money. She made a couple of live TV appearances (might have been one, but I'll be generous and give her credit for two appearances) on 865/861, but it didn't take long for the whole ambassador thing to be quietly forgotten about for a while. Really was an epic fail of a promotion on every level, that one. And tbh, there's been plenty of other times where Sky have done promotions at awful times. Such at that time when they were obsessed with rakeraces and decided to run them for four months in a row at the start of 2014 I believe, completely ruining the cash games. Those tables in months three and four were actually horrendous, all the recreational players had lost all their money and decided "Nope **** this" and it was six regs to a table passing big blinds around. Took a good few months for the cash games to get even remotely good again after that. Even if you don't like the promotion, it's not the "worst ever", not by a long stretch. You claim that you're not a bad loser, but honestly the four things I have quoted, emboldened and criticised above would suggest otherwise. " Not only that, some players are only being asked to match their usual points score, and in other cases 10 points will increase your target by 1,000 points." There is one thing I'll agree with you on, and that's the points tiers where an extra DYM can mean having to get 1000 points more in a week - I think setting the bar at a percentage of May's points total for everyone (Say 40% so that your volume for the week has to be higher than your previous month average to qualify, which is the whole point of the promo) with a floor of 50-100 points would have been a fairer way to get around the points jump issue. That is definitely a reasonable criticism of the promotion. I don't think it's a complete deal breaker in the same way that allowing people to play Russian Roulettes has ruined certain other promotions in the past for instance, but it could definitely be better IMO.
Posted by EvilPingu

I am getting fed up of this argument now, but I will just add a little bit more.

This promotion has a feel of something that was worked out on the back of a cigarette packet in a pub.

If Sky wanted to target a group of people they might have targeted those that had already spent loads playing Vegas sats.

The points targets could have easily been made much fairer for more players, instead of smacking of greed and Sky recouping the maximum they could from each player.

Freerolls are usually free, hence the name.

This is the most expensive freeroll I have ever seen.

For some players it is not just playing a bit extra, it is about the impossibility of reaching the excessive targets with no Vegas sats, or UKOPS. For me it would involve playing games I am not happy playing, or more tables than I am comfortable playing, and losing money.

I am genuinely not a bad loser, and took up this debate purely to highlight the unfairness of it.

I think that most players would agree that the the points targets are unfair. If that is the case how could you argue that the promotion is fair as the points targets are the promotion. If was a genuinely free freeroll, what could anyone possibly argue about.

WHY COULDNT SKY, INSTEAD OF BEING GREEDY, JUST HAVE GIVEN ALL PLAYERS A FAIR AND REASONABLE POINTS TARGET
p,s. You cant criticise Charlotte, I qualified for two of her sitngos on the telly, and won one.

rspca12 · June 2017

like the idea of this promo gl all.

mongo229 · June 2017

I fall into this category as well, basically I need to double my points tally for my basic week which will impossible to do at the the level I play at. Unless I play 6 tables instead of 3 which I find difficult and also as soon as open the 4th table the lag is too bad to play. I feel your pain Haysie .

TommyD · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : I have to respectfully disagree with you. In making my comments I was purely referring to this promotion. I think many players got excited about a last chance to win a Vegas package. It was hyped for a bit before anyone knew the details. When the details were published I am certain it was disappointing for many players. My criticism was never about me not winning a package, and being a bad loser. It was purely about the blatantly unfair entry targets. I have been playing the sats over the last couple of months, and have failed to win a package. This is my fault and I am happy to take it on the chin. In the last two months I have got in the region of 8,000 extra points through playing the sats and the UKOPS etc. Many players will also be in this boat. Had Sky said that they wanted to bias this promo to a group of players which didnt include me, then I would have been fine about it. They didnt say that, Tikay said that the intention was to give everyone a chance of qualifying. I have the utmost regard for Tikay, as a person, for the job he does, and all the stuff he has to put up with. However I am not sure he is well supported on occasion. I think the Vegas promotion went well on the whole, but if I had won a seat it would have been down to spending lots of time and money, rather than through Sky giving me something. However I do appreciate the opportunity. I have never been out to get all I could off Sky. I never play any freerolls, other than those that relate to Vegas. So back to the promotion. I think it is absolutely the worst thought out promotion I have seen Sky do. Firstly it is being called a freeroll when it is clearly not. All players are being asked to spend between £50 and £1500 extra in one week to gain entry. How on earth can this be described as a freeroll. All players are being asked to achieve an increased points target. This increased target doesnt take account of the fact that many players have recently increased their points, because of the reasons set out above. During February and march I got around 3,000 points per month, but my target is 2,000 for the week due to my increased play in May. It is not possible for me to hit this target without incurring such losses as to make it uneconomical. Not only that, some players are only being asked to match their usual points score, and in other cases 10 points will increase your target by 1,000 points. If I has put this together I would be extremely embarassed. Whoever this promotion is aimed at it sucks. The blatantly obvious priority for this promotion without a doubt is the recovery of the 7k it is costing. Much better in my view to have charged a nominal fee. I have said in an earlier post that I think Sky have done some really good things, but this is certainly not one of them. To treat this as a stand alone promotion is fair I think, and no different from the complaints that you will be bringing up next year, despite the Vegas promotion as a whole going quite well. I am not a bad loser, and take my losses on the chin. If there was no debate, nothing would ever change. I wont be playing the freeroll and thats fine. The funny thing is that there are a group of players that will not under any circumstances say anything bad about Sky, They will be sitting about saying I am really happy to spend an extra £1500 in the promo week to get entry to the freeroll. In fact thats a bit cheap I will spend an extra £2,000. I am going to bed now, I am a very slow typist and this has taken ages.
Posted by HAYSIE

First off if you are putting me in a group of players who never criticise the site, you haven't read enough of my posts. However I do choose the ones I believe matter, as I believe you are doing now.

Why I like this promo? It's encouraging more domant and lapsed accounts to play on Sky again. It favours them and will lead to an increase in the playerpool imo. It also gives a great shot for someone who has £50 in their account and plays for fun a brilliant chance at a holiday of a lifetime. Those are the sorts of thing poker needs imo.

Are the points target fair for the entire playerpool? A very broad and subjective term but probably not because:

Is it possible to create a total fair promo for the entire playerpool? Probably not. The nearest we have had are the mayhems and the ticket giveaways but even they had natural bias. The suggestions you have made are towards fair from one point of view and out of reach from another.

I understand your position that you believe it's proper to look at the promo in isolation. I respectfully disagree. I disagree because if this was the first package up instead of the last (but came after UKOPS so MTT players would have still had high targets) I do not believe this thread would have taken the direction it has.

Anyway, that's all I really have to say on the matter. As always, best of luck at the tables.

FCHD · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

Freerolls are usually free, hence the name.
Posted by HAYSIE

Most freerolls on Sky have some sort of entry requirement, usually in terms of points earned in the last 24 hours or the last week. The Social Freeroll on a Saturday afternoon is the odd one out.

pomfrittes · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Most freerolls on Sky have some sort of entry requirement, usually in terms of points earned in the last 24 hours or the last week. The Social Freeroll on a Saturday afternoon is the odd one out.
Posted by FCHD

The Mission freerolls , which I think were very early in the qualification process, had entry requirements but the entry to the free roll was £0'provided you hit the qualification target. Just as the Last Vegas promo is. And yes I agree with Haysie to a degree that it does favour the less active players........but any player can hit the target if they so wish. MTT grinders may have to spend a couple of nights on dyms or cash but the choice is there. Take it or don't.

P.S. The mission freerolls were an awesome promo IMO.

HAYSIE · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : First off if you are putting me in a group of players who never criticise the site, you haven't read enough of my posts. However I do choose the ones I believe matter, as I believe you are doing now. Why I like this promo? It's encouraging more domant and lapsed accounts to play on Sky again. It favours them and will lead to an increase in the playerpool imo. It also gives a great shot for someone who has £50 in their account and plays for fun a brilliant chance at a holiday of a lifetime. Those are the sorts of thing poker needs imo. Are the points target fair for the entire playerpool? A very broad and subjective term but probably not because: Is it possible to create a total fair promo for the entire playerpool? Probably not. The nearest we have had are the mayhems and the ticket giveaways but even they had natural bias. The suggestions you have made are towards fair from one point of view and out of reach from another. I understand your position that you believe it's proper to look at the promo in isolation. I respectfully disagree. I disagree because if this was the first package up instead of the last (but came after UKOPS so MTT players would have still had high targets) I do not believe this thread would have taken the direction it has. Anyway, that's all I really have to say on the matter. As always, best of luck at the tables.
Posted by TommyD

I understand what you are saying. I understand that it is good to target new players, lapsed accounts, etc, but this

doesnt have to be at the expense of the majority.

For instance 300 extra points generates £30 for Sky. Therefore 240 runners funds the 7k for 300 extra points. If that wouldnt work then maybe 180 at £40, or even 140 runners at an average of £50. Looking at the targets you have to wonder how much money they are attempting to generate. Following that thought then you have to conclude that the unfair targets are a result of greed, rather than wishing to give anyone a chance.

If you really wanted to give them a chance you could allow everyone with less than 500 points last month to enter free. That is something I would applaud.

I am not against the low targets, and am all for encouraging new players, but I think the higher targets were poorly thought out.

If you just wished to target the new players only, then it could have been just for players that didnt acheive many points last month. That would have been honest, transparent and above board, but wouldnt cover the cost.

You surely dont target one group of players by making it unfair to other groups.

I really cant understand the mentality of if you make it easy for some players, you must make it unfair for others. Why cant you make it very easy for the new players etc, and fair for the others.

Good luck on the tables.

FCHD · June 2017

Okay, but the next time there is a promotion arranged around a rake race, that 99.9% of the player base are never going to able to compete on equal terms in, I look forward to your posting stressing how that is unfair too.

And that's coming from someone whose weekly target probably exceeds what I've ever earned in a month, but do I consider it unfair? No.

unknown_username · June 2017

This thread is wonderful, its taken twists and turns, issues resolved and points made.

Quality gold inside.

HAYSIE · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

Okay, but the next time there is a promotion arranged around a rake race, that 99.9% of the player base are never going to able to compete on equal terms in, I look forward to your posting stressing how that is unfair too. And that's coming from someone whose weekly target probably exceeds what I've ever earned in a month, but do I consider it unfair? No.
Posted by FCHD

Why not?

HAYSIE · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Most freerolls on Sky have some sort of entry requirement, usually in terms of points earned in the last 24 hours or the last week. The Social Freeroll on a Saturday afternoon is the odd one out.
Posted by FCHD

Shows how much I know about freerolls. I very rarely play them. Not a Ronseal then. I learn something every day playing poker. Its very educational. Freerolls arent free and guaranteed seats arent.

HAYSIE · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Shows how much I know about freerolls. I very rarely play them. Not a Ronseal then. I learn something every day playing poker. Its very educational. Freerolls arent free and guaranteed seats arent.
Posted by HAYSIE

Before anyone starts, this is a light hearted, tongue in cheek comment. Definitely not a moan.

rainman215 · June 2017

Good evening all.

Has anyone mentioned the £2.20 @2.15 deepstack yet.

All the best.

Rainman215.

HAYSIE · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

Good evening all. Has anyone mentioned the £2.20 @2.15 deepstack yet. All the best. Rainman215.
Posted by rainman215

Didnt you have a film named after you?

unknown_username · June 2017

Youve gone too far.

suprwomble · June 2017

In Response to Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

Full details for the very last 2017 Viva Las Vegas Promotion have been announced HERE It has been structured in such a way that ANY player, no matter how big or small he or she plays, has a chance to win it. You have a week, starting from 00.01 on Monday, to try to qualify for the Freeroll. The Freeroll carries a £4,000 Viva Las Vegas package for the winner, and, in addition, a £3,000 cash prize pool. The cash prizes start with 2nd place (winner "only" gets the £4,000 package). If you have already won a £4,000 Viva Las Vegas package, you cannot win another. Please note, Viva Las Vegas packages are NOT transferable. Good luck.
Posted by Tikay10

I opted in and met my points target but can't register for Wednesday's comp. Any ideas?

Tikay10 · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : I opted in and met my points target but can't register for Wednesday's comp. Any ideas?
Posted by suprwomble

Hi,

Assuming you opted in BEFORE you earned your points, no, I don't know why you cannot register.

Leave it with me, I'll get on the case, & it WILL be answered before Wednesday.

pomfrittes · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Hi, Assuming you opted in BEFORE you earned your points, no, I don't know why you cannot register. Leave it with me, I'll get on the case, & it WILL be answered before Wednesday.
Posted by Tikay10

Evening Teeks, while you are on the case could you check mine as well please. According to the points widget I made enough points but also cannot register. TYVM.

See you soon.

suprwomble · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Hi, Assuming you opted in BEFORE you earned your points, no, I don't know why you cannot register. Leave it with me, I'll get on the case, & it WILL be answered before Wednesday.
Posted by Tikay10

Thanks tikay, yes I opted in before playing. Sort it after you scoopio though!

Tikay10 · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Evening Teeks, while you are on the case could you check mine as well please. According to the points widget I made enough points but also cannot register. TYVM. See you soon.
Posted by pomfrittes

OK Uncle Pommy, will do.

Tikay10 · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Sort it after you scoopio though!
Posted by suprwomble

Ha, here's hoping.

Enut · June 2017

I know that you cannot win two packages but does already going to Vegas actually prevent you from registering for this?

After all there's £3,000 in cash too. I would obv sit out of lucky enough to get heads up.

p.s. absolutely not a moan in any way shape or form, just interested to know.

Snuffer · June 2017

Don't know if it prevents you from registering but t+c's state this:

Players who have already secured a £4,000 Viva Las Vegas Side package are not eligible to take part in this Promotion.

Enut · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

Don't know if it prevents you from registering but t+c's state this: Players who have already secured a £4,000 Viva Las Vegas Side package are not eligible to take part in this Promotion.
Posted by Snuffer

Ah that would be the answer then. Thanks for that. Good luck to all those that are playing.

pomfrittes · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

Don't know if it prevents you from registering but t+c's state this: Players who have already secured a £4,000 Viva Las Vegas Side package are not eligible to take part in this Promotion.
Posted by Snuffer

Cheers Snuffer, that explains it then.

pomfrittes · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : OK Uncle Pommy, will do.
Posted by Tikay10

TX Gramps, but I think I am excluded as I have already won a side event package.

Essexphil · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : TX Gramps, but I think I am excluded as I have already won a side event package.
Posted by pomfrittes

Perhaps the package winners could have a "Greedy Old Hector" Freeroll

)
Save some for the others!

pomfrittes · June 2017

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced:

In Response to Re: Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced : Perhaps the package winners could have a "Greedy Old Hector" Freeroll ) Save some for the others!
Posted by Essexphil

LOL, good idea, however it appears that the ts n cs are wrong as I have spotted one player who has won a side event package and is also in the freeroll.

Sky_SamT · June 2017

Suprwomble I have added you into the tournament. Not sure why you couldn't register but I will investigate that.

Pomfrittes as the terms state any package winners are unable to enter. If you could let me know who the side event package winner is that has entered I would be grateful as neither James or I believe there is one in there.

Thanks

Sam

Viva LasT Vegas - full details announced

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