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Major MTT Strength

edited August 2017 in Poker Chat
So the shock news is that the higher buy in games appear to be tougher than the low buy in games?
This is very useful stuff to know

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Comments

  • edited June 2017

    STRENGTH

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  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    So the shock news is that the higher buy in games appear to be tougher than the low buy in games? This is very useful stuff to know
    Posted by Jac35
    it's not as simple as you think.

    sunday's £110 major at 8pm had a strength "ok". 
    whereas sunday's £11 game at 8:15pm had a strength noted as "hard". 





    www.PokerSuperHero.com/latest



  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : it's not as simple as you think. sunday's £110 major at 8pm had a strength "ok".  whereas sunday's £11 game at 8:15pm had a strength noted as "hard".  www.PokerSuperHero.com/latest
    Posted by aussie09

    If players are only playing a handful of games per week or even just playing the Sunday Major, presumably they wont appear as "top players" even though they may be a uk reg.
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : If players are only playing a handful of games per week or even just playing the Sunday Major, presumably they wont appear as "top players" even though they may be a uk reg.
    Posted by MattBates
    Tbf that will get balanced by the losing players who Aussie regards as "top players"
  • edited June 2017
    i find the sunday major has quite a soft field
    The £55 9pm games are definitely the toughest
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : If players are only playing a handful of games per week or even just playing the Sunday Major, presumably they wont appear as "top players" even though they may be a uk reg.
    Posted by MattBates

    yes, that is true matt. 

    a handful of players will not distort the strength assessment

    any player who has played so few games that they have not ever made it to the top 100 players at any time in the past 6 months will not influence the strength assessment. 

    there are 8,000 players who have appeared in the best player leagues.  quantity wise, the number of these playing is taken into account.  quality wise, how high in the best player leagues is a second factor.

    i was interested to see where the value might be.  there is nothing that has done this before, apart from the "avoid mattbates" app.



     
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    i find the sunday major has quite a soft field The £55 9pm games are definitely the toughest
    Posted by jubb
    yes, that's what has been revealed.

    the 9pm has been rated "hard" 4 times in the last 7 days and rated "OMG" three times.

    i didn't realise it was so tough.  mind you, i thought the 8pm main on sunday was a no go mtt.  but it isn't.


     
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : it's not as simple as you think. sunday's £110 major at 8pm had a strength "ok".  whereas sunday's £11 game at 8:15pm had a strength noted as "hard"www.PokerSuperHero.com/latest
    Posted by aussie09

    Story checks out
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : yes, that is true matt.  a handful of players will not distort the strength assessment any player who has played so few games that they have not ever made it to the top 1,000 players at any time in the past 6 months will not influence the strength assessment.  there are 8,000 players who have appeared in the top 1,000 best players.  quantity wise, the number of top players is taken into account.  quality wise, how high in the best player leagues is a second factor. i was interested to see where the value might be.  there is nothing that has done this before, apart from the "avoid mattbates" app.
    Posted by aussie09

    Hadn't realised you were calling top players those in the top 1000.
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : Hadn't realised you were calling top players those in the top 1000.
    Posted by MattBates

    i've just edited that sentence.  all best player leagues are the 100 best players.




  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : Story checks out
    Posted by MattBates
    yes, this is what i found to be an eye-opener. 

    any idea why?


     
  • edited June 2017
    Great stuff Rob. Using this to avoid some of the hard ganes and not play as part of an evening schedule. 
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    Great stuff Rob. Using this to avoid some of the hard ganes and not play as part of an evening schedule. 
    Posted by Nuggy962

    thanks.  i would use it the same way.  avoid some, target others.



  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : Story checks out
    Posted by MattBates
    congratulations on your win in the hard £11 at 8:15pm.  i understand your comment now.


     
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : yes, that is true matt.  a handful of players will not distort the strength assessment any player who has played so few games that they have not ever made it to the top 100 players at any time in the past 6 months will not influence the strength assessment.  there are 8,000 players who have appeared in the best player leagues.  quantity wise, the number of these playing is taken into account.  quality wise, how high in the best player leagues is a second factor. i was interested to see where the value might be.  there is nothing that has done this before, apart from the "avoid mattbates" app.  
    Posted by aussie09

    To do well in your tables it is a mix of volume and ability. Just because someone is high on your list doesnt mean they are a good player and doesnt even mean they are a profitable player.

    To take it to an extreme, how would the UKOPS high roller appear to be strength wise?
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : To do well in your tables it is a mix of volume and ability. Just because someone is high on your list doesnt mean they are a good player and doesnt even mean they are a profitable player. To take it to an extreme, how would the UKOPS high roller appear to be strength wise?
    Posted by MattBates
    yes, very true.  it is just a matter of what is the best way of evaluating best.  i certainly dislike the old way of assessing best by totalling returns. 

    mine is a combination of quantity and quality.  i choose the method that can be argued against less than alternatives methods.  what i do is assess performance by a standard test.  the mtts are the top games, no cash, no sngs, no freerolls, no this, no that.  therefore the standardised  "test" i use is a truer test of ability and achievement.  it is more readily calibrated, interpreted and performances compared.

    what it gives me is the ability to know how good someone is likely to be.  no matter, it all is subject to what cards are dealt.

    the ukops high roller question ... we will know better when it next runs.  there is no allowance made for size of buy-in, nor should there be imo.  the players are the same, just a reduced skill range probably.  i think i would see a ok to hard game .  the entrants mix will include a higher number of wealthy average players plus more good players.


  • edited June 2017

    remember that there are few profitable players in poker.

    those in all my best player tables will almost without fail be profitable players.  i identify the top 100 from 5,000 unique players a week, 10,000 unique players a month, 50,000 unique players a year.  i am 99.9% certain that all top 100 best players are profitable.  confident because 100 from 50k (or 5k for that matter) is such a small proportion.




     
  • edited June 2017
    In short
    It is ridiculous to rate losing players as "top players" simply because they put in a lot of volume

    Edit
    Just see your last post. Are you sure about that?
    Not long ago the 'best player' on Sky was a losing player!
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In short It is ridiculous to rate losing players as "top players" simply because they put in a lot of volume Edit Just see your last post. Are you sure about that? Not long ago the 'best player' on Sky was a losing player!
    Posted by Jac35
    yes, agree.



  • edited June 2017
    Your leagues may well be a bit of fun for people to look at and that's fine 

    If people want a true guide to players abilities then sharkscope is a fantastic site.
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    Your leagues may well be a bit of fun for people to look at and that's fine  If people want a true guide to players abilities then sharkscope is a fantastic site.
    Posted by Jac35
    yes, agree there too.

    sharkscope does a different thing and does that very well.  my site does its own thing too and provides a service to those who play on sky poker.



     
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    Your leagues may well be a bit of fun for people to look at and that's fine  If people want a true guide to players abilities then sharkscope is a fantastic site.
    Posted by Jac35

    If you want to know if a certain player is profitable and over what sample size, use Sharkscope (unless it's locked, of course.....)

    If you want to know if a certain player busts in the first quarter more often than not, use Aussiescope.
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : If you want to know if a certain player is profitable and over what sample size, use Sharkscope (unless it's locked, of course.....) If you want to know if a certain player busts in the first quarter more often than not, use Aussiescope.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr

    lol. 

    ps.  still no reason to argue with you harry.











  • edited June 2017
    Check the tournament selector option on sharkscope.
    It is very good accross several sites.

    Ger
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    remember that there are few profitable players in poker.  
    Posted by aussie09
    This part isn't true. Well I guess it depends what you mean by very few.

    I read a credible article a couple of years ago which suggested the amount of winning players was higher than most people thought. I cannot find that article but I have found a similar one written by Sharkscope who obviously have access to a lot of data.

    The article suggests that there is a lot of variation between sites and games but overall it states that in 2014 22% of Tournament players were profitable. This was down from 26% in 2009.

    For Sky the figure was 27%.

    Also that isn't even considering rakeback.

    Link to article... 
    Profitable player %
  • edited June 2017
    Yes the Sky figure dropped since you joined the site Marky, since you are taking everyone elses winnings ;)

    Ger
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : This part isn't true. Well I guess it depends what you mean by very few. I read a credible article a couple of years ago which suggested the amount of winning players was higher than most people thought. I cannot find that article but I have found a similar one written by Sharkscope who obviously have access to a lot of data. The article suggests that there is a lot of variation between sites and games but overall it states that in 2014 22% of Tournament players were profitable. This was down from 26% in 2009. For Sky the figure was 27%.
    Posted by markycash
    I guess it depends what we deem to be "few".

    If, say, the number on Sky Poker is 27%, is 27% "a lot", or, looked at Charlie Munger style, is 73% (the obverse) "not much"?

    Interesting.
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    Yes the Sky figure dropped since you joined the site Marky, since you are taking everyone elses winnings ;) Ger
    Posted by gerardirl
    lol ger

    I have managed to stay profitable yes, so I guess I am in whatever the % actually is. However the VLV finals punched a couple of holes in my sails. Will get back on the job after Vegas though and see if I can give the Holdem MTT regs a run for their money.
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : I guess it depends what we deem to be "few". If, say, the number on Sky Poker is 27%, is 27% "a lot", or, looked at Charlie Munger style, is 73% (the obverse) "not much"? Interesting.
    Posted by Tikay10
    To me a couple is 2 and 'a few' is 3 or more. So I had in mind that 'a few' suggested 3%+.

    Obviously every rung on the ladder from 3% to 100% is 3%+ so I am not sure I am making much of a point here lol.

    Heads to Google...

    Edit: Regarding the bolded part. I think 27% would neither be few or many. To me the term 'few players' suggests scarcity. I don't think 27% suggests the number of profitable players are scarce.
  • edited June 2017
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength:
    In Response to Re: Major MTT Strength : Heads to Google...
    Posted by markycash
    Initial Googling is inconclusive.

    TBH I think it is a rather subjective term so I doubt there will be a definitive quantitative and universally accepted answer out there on the interwebs.
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