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what now?

freechips1freechips1
edited March 2010 in Hold'em Poker Strategy
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
swiper Small blind  £0.50 £0.50 £147.64
varney Big blind  £1.00 £1.50 £187.59
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
     
cooler82 Fold     
freechips1 Raise  £4.00 £5.50 £215.95
sam1986 Fold     
cottlad Fold     
swiper Fold     
varney Raise  £14.00 £19.50 £173.59
freechips1 Call  £11.00 £30.50 £204.95
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 2
  • 6
     
varney Check     
freechips1 Check     
Turn
   
  • 7
     
varney Bet  £23.00 £53.50 £150.59
freechips1 Call  £23.00 £76.50 £181.95
River
   
  • 6
     
varney Bet  £48.00 £124.50 £102.59
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    with the 3 bet pre, then check the flop by varney what hand do you put him on? what do you do on the river?
    my thought at the time was a over pair thats why i called on the turn to rep the 7 on the river. now slate my play, lol.
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    DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited March 2010

    Saw dantb play a similar hand against this guy on mastercash other week. He 3 bet pre from the big blind exactly the same, this time he had QQ. 

    He checked the flop to Dan who had AJ on a J high flop, Dan bet out, n the guy tanked. 

    Not played him myself but Dan said it was an easy fold against this guy. 


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    offshootoffshoot
    edited March 2010
    bet flop.

    fold river.
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    Saw dantb play a similar hand against this guy on mastercash other week. He 3 bet pre from the big blind exactly the same, this time he had QQ.  He checked the flop to Dan who had AJ on a J high flop, Dan bet out, n the guy tanked.  Not played him myself but Dan said it was an easy fold against this guy. 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    so what do you do on river? or do you fold on turn?
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    bet flop. fold river.
    Posted by offshoot
    as i said i put him on overpair so no point in betting flop as he will reraise and wont fold to a shove.
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    offshootoffshoot
    edited March 2010
    well if you put him on an overpair its a pretty easy fold on river. I would still bet flop, you can fold out better hands by betting and even if he does shove you have at least 45% equity against his range so its not terrible going broke there.

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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    well if you put him on an overpair its a pretty easy fold on river.
    Posted by offshoot
    LOL, what im getting at is, will a shove make him or anyone fold a overpair in this spot with 6,6,7,7 on the board. i called the turn so i must have some part of it. or is that just being very spewy?
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    offshootoffshoot
    edited March 2010
    sorryi didnt realise how deep you were. ok i actually dont mind checking flop but i wouldnt raise river.
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    sorryi didnt realise how deep you were. ok i actually dont mind checking flop but i wouldnt raise river.
    Posted by offshoot
    so you would check flop, call turn, fold river?
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    beanehbeaneh
    edited March 2010
    In Response to what now?:
    Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance swiper Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £147.64 varney Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £187.59   Your hole cards A Q       cooler82 Fold         freechips1 Raise   £4.00 £5.50 £215.95 sam1986 Fold         cottlad Fold         swiper Fold         varney Raise   £14.00 £19.50 £173.59 freechips1 Call   £11.00 £30.50 £204.95 Flop     7 2 6       varney Check         freechips1 Check         Turn     7       varney Bet   £23.00 £53.50 £150.59 freechips1 Call   £23.00 £76.50 £181.95 River     6       varney Bet   £48.00 £124.50 £102.59
    Posted by freechips1


    Why did you call pre, why didn't you bet the flop, why did you call the turn?
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    robcrobc
    edited March 2010
     I no im probably not experienced enough to answer this but i would bet the flop as if he has a hand like JJ your still a slight favourite the check behind is hard to find out where you are on the turn. as you checked the flop i would be folding the turn as your around a 25 % underdog to a overpair and thats probably the worst your against at this point, if not youv'e only lost 15 quid you can find a better spot than this. i wouldnt be contemplating raising the river unless you have reason to believe he is bluffing from experiencing him doing this. to me the £48 pound bet looks like he wants you to call??

      Anyway that's just my amateur opinion on the hand :) 


       Rob 
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    BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited March 2010
    If you put him on an overpair i guess you could fold pre. I like the check back on the flop for the reasoning you have given. Call on the turn is fine and then just an easy fold on the river.
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    ACESOVER8sACESOVER8s
    edited March 2010
    How well does he know your range? is a 7 in that range for 4xbb pre flop from mid position? does it stay in his assumed range when you call his re-raise or does he now define you a little closer to what you hold? 

    I don't think he's laying down on the river so i'd fold as like you i'm assuming this is an overpair and i don't think his river bet shows him giving you credit for a 7, but some of you guys at £100nl have some crazy moves so he may just be playing 7 6 off and 3 bet you with it pre lol

    Your far more qualified to comment on this than I but i'm assuming you folded to the bet? (or made a hero call to catch him 10 high lol)
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    DeuceAK_47DeuceAK_47
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to what now? : Why did you call pre, why didn't you bet the flop, why did you call the turn?
    Posted by beaneh
    You have to call pre here even if the villan has a tight 3betting range as we are over 200bb deep.
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    beanehbeaneh
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : You have to call pre here even if the villan has a tight 3betting range as we are over 200bb deep.
    Posted by DeuceAK-47

    We have been given no info on villain or on his tendencies or on the game flow or what villain may think of hero.....


    We don't even know how to continue when we flop a v good flop so I think my questions are valid.
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to what now? : Why did you call pre, why didn't you bet the flop, why did you call the turn?
    Posted by beaneh
    did you read any of the thread?
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    DeuceAK_47DeuceAK_47
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : We have been given no info on villain or on his tendencies or on the game flow or what villain may think of hero..... We don't even know how to continue when we flop a v good flop so I think my questions are valid.
    Posted by beaneh
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    DeuceAK_47DeuceAK_47
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? :
    Posted by DeuceAK-47
    Yeh i know.... thats why i have not answered the whole question.....dont fold this hand against any player this deep though.....y do you?
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : We have been given no info on villain or on his tendencies or on the game flow or what villain may think of hero..... We don't even know how to continue when we flop a v good flop so I think my questions are valid.
    Posted by beaneh
    Saw dantb play a similar hand against this guy on mastercash other week. He 3 bet pre from the big blind exactly the same, this time he had QQ. 

    He checked the flop to Dan who had AJ on a J high flop, Dan bet out, n the guy tanked. 

    Not played him myself but Dan said it was an easy fold against this guy.
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    lynx3ffectlynx3ffect
    edited March 2010
    like beaneh says...you need reads on villain, if you put him on an OP you shouldnt be calling pre, if you know he can 3 bet from blinds with a wide range then the call is profitable and in that case you should bet the flop when he checks....

    So you havent bet the flop and opt to take a free card in position, which isnt the end of the world but the turn is a complete brick in villains eyes, saying you called to rep a 7 is ridiculous, unless villain has seen you call 3 bets pre with 67s, 87s, A7s type hands and even if you did its unlikely a flat from you will scare him as you would most likely raise trips there for value. I think your range on the turn is too polarised after the flat call to make any river profitable, if  you still put him on an OP then you could assume your A would be good and any spade so you have 25% equity but the chances of you getting paid if the spade comes are slim to none and if he has JJ-KK he will check on any A, so I think the turn flat is spewy.

    In summary, you should bet the flop to define villains hand, if you get raised  you need to decide whether you want to stack off 200bb with a fd and 2 overs. As you didnt bet the flop I think the turn is a fold as your best case is 25% equity and worse case you are dead to the spade which wont get you paid anyway.
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    beanehbeaneh
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : did you read any of the thread?
    Posted by freechips1

    Yes I( did, and no where did you give the information needed to answer this question, nor did you explain sufficiently why you made the plays you did.


    Does villain view you exactly the same as dantb? or has your telling us about a hand someone else played against someone else got absolutely nothing to do with this hand!?



    Try answering the following multi part question, if you cant maybe you should have a really hard long think....



    'Why did you call pre-flop? What hands does he 3 bet with pre in this scenario? How does he view you?'
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    If you put him on an overpair i guess you could fold pre. I like the check back on the flop for the reasoning you have given. Call on the turn is fine and then just an easy fold on the river.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    i put him on overpair once he checked the flop, you say its easy fold on the river and your right but if i shove can he call? what % would a all in work? to make him fold a overpair
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    beanehbeaneh
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : i put him on overpair once he checked the flop, you say its easy fold on the river and your right but if i shove can he call? what % would a all in work? to make him fold a overpair
    Posted by freechips1


    Again to answer any of these questions you need to be able to answer some basic questions and give information on the villain.
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : Yes I( did, and no where did you give the information needed to answer this question, nor did you explain sufficiently why you made the plays you did. Does villain view you exactly the same as dantb? or has your telling us about a hand someone else played against someone else got absolutely nothing to do with this hand!? Try answering the following multi part question, if you cant maybe you should have a really hard long think.... 'Why did you call pre-flop? What hands does he 3 bet with pre in this scenario? How does he view you?'
    Posted by beaneh
    his 3 bet range OOP has me crushed and yes i should of folded pre, but im a calling station lol.  the question i would like a answer to is, will a all in on the river make a overpair fold? if yes what % will it work.  you will have your own reads on varney as he is a 100nl reg. im a bit selfish and wont share what i think of other players.
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    lynx3ffectlynx3ffect
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : i put him on overpair once he checked the flop, you say its easy fold on the river and your right but if i shove can he call? what % would a all in work? to make him fold a overpair
    Posted by freechips1
    what are you trying to tell villain you have by shoving the river that you wouldnt have bet the flop or raised the turn with? 
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    beanehbeaneh
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : his 3 bet range OOP has me crushed and yes i should of folded pre, but im a calling station lol.  the question i would like a answer to is, will a all in on the river make a overpair fold? if yes what % will it work.  you will have your own reads on varney as he is a 100nl reg. im a bit selfish and wont share what i think of other players.
    Posted by freechips1


    You called pre because you were clicking buttons then ok.


    You cannot have an answer to your question until you answer some of the questions I asked you like what his range for 3 betting pre is, how he views you, what history you have together, how you both got your stacks etc.


    I'm pretty sure you just don't have any reads rather than having some to guard through selfishness.


    You will most likely not get a fold on the river because you are repping nothing.


    How often do you think he is check folding the flop?
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : what are you trying to tell villain you have by shoving the river that you wouldnt have bet the flop or raised the turn with? 
    Posted by lynx3ffect
    your right. lets say i called his 3 bet pre with 7,8 i would of played flop the same but on the turn i would of raised to protect vs flushdraws.
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    freechips1freechips1
    edited March 2010
    his 3 bet range OOP is JJ QQ KK AA and im unsure about AK, AJ and AQ he flats.
    you have hit a point that has me very frustrated at the moment and i have no idea HOW HE VEIWS ME nor do i have any idea of how any other players sees me, i need to sort this out if i want to progress but have no idea how, go on me and you have played a fair bit together how do you veiw me? do me a favour be honest, if your eyes light up when you see me at your table then please say.
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    lynx3ffectlynx3ffect
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : your right. lets say i called his 3 bet pre with 7,8 i would of played flop the same but on the turn i would of raised to protect vs flushdraws.
    Posted by freechips1
    indeed, if you wanted to rep a 7 or fh which is all you can rep on that board then you would be raising turn ALWAYS, not only to protect versus fd/sd but also for value as he reps the OP, i still think villain calls that river with an OP and if hes been coolered by a fh or A7 then so be it....the turn is really the worst card for you to continue a bluff or get value from a flush...find a better spot :)
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    DeuceAK_47DeuceAK_47
    edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: what now?:
    In Response to Re: what now? : your right. lets say i called his 3 bet pre with 7,8 i would of played flop the same but on the turn i would of raised to protect vs flushdraws.
    Posted by freechips1
    He cant have a flush draw, if he has a overpair ;-)
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