You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Comments
Just to add a little footnote to my original reply, I doubt I would find myself in this spot. Firstly I hate playing raggy aces, suited or otherwise so I may not complete from the small blind or call the BB's min raise. Secondly, this situation is ripe for a squeeze play. Dohhhhhhh, you get two opportunities to squeeze, were you tempted?
Posted by TommyD
We have no idea how any one else will act behind us therefore we cant call here because we'd be losing a little bit of money each time we do. If someone had called all in between or acted out of turn like a live game then happy days it's not fishing if you've got the correct odds (or better) but when you don't you just have to fold.
so Beaneh your sayin if the guy who pot bets actually shoved like the other guy then this is now a correct call?? so i assuming your going to answer 'yes' therefore its already the correct call because the guy who pot bets is callin, im 100% convinced he's callin. infact i would like Dohhhhhhh to put the rest of this hand up and see if he did call or not (i have no idea, all i know about this hand is doh folded) ...if this guy who pot bet the flop folds to the shove then i will never write anything else on this forum!!
Like ive said before im fully aware your a good player/winning player and i have no doubts at all your a much better player than I am, your mathematical understanding of the game is outstanding (although in my opinion maths is idiotic- understanding basic pot odds is more than enough to be a good solid player) but to fold this hand in a CASH game for 1 buy-in with 5 other people in the pot is too nitty! the implied odds make this a call.
This on the other hand I totally 100% agree with!
If you knew nalotofdet had a set and was definely going to go all-in would you call?
lol, good point, but missing my draw could well lead me to tilt away 10 buyins. It has happened. ( well maybe not 10 )
I don't like the way this is goin, was pretty chuffed when everyone said easy fold - its kinda going the other way now! I'll try and dig the rest of the hand out now.
Here ya go, what a feeling on the turn
Thanx for the replies tho - still non the wiser, but think it was right, if id missed the turn it wud be easier to believe.
As it happends the villian has bottom two pair and is probably not folding to two all-ins but could easily of had the qj hand.
But even if Dohhhhhhh knew what they had its still a fold by my maths:
Main pot £52.74/100* 29.57%E= £15.60
Side pot £15.38/100*33.74%E= £5.19
Doh has to call £23.77- (on average would win) 15.60 +5.19= -£2.98 ev every time he calls.
I would have to be pretty a) tilted or b) stuck or c) wanting to build a deep stack on that table.
I don't like the way this is goin, was pretty chuffed when everyone said easy fold - its kinda going the other way now! I'll try and dig the rest of the hand out now.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH
No it's not you numpty. Easy fold and you should be able to work out exactly the expected outcome of this play.
if id missed the turn it wud be easier to believe. .
do you all still call if it was a tourny?
Posted by murray69
lol Beaneh we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I still 100% think this is a call. I know what your sayin about the implied odds-but implied odds require some educational guesswork and like ive said with 5 other people in the pot 2 of which have shown alot of interest in the pot (and we dont know the others aint check callin/raisin) then i feel its the correct call.
perhaps its a closer decision than I originally thought and made out but in all close decisions i feel you should try to make the play that creates the appearance of giving action. a table image of an action player, one who likes excitement and who will bet, raise and call with a variety of hands is more profitable than the table image of a rock who needs something close to the nuts to put his money in the pot!...
Pls to be showing me the maths mr eagle.
As is, you calling this shove is still going to be losing you money EVERY TIME YOU DO IT. AND we can work out exactly HOW MUCH is being lost pretty easily.
In Response to Re: Okay, big draw, laid down........ : Hmmm 117th post eh? were your other 116 as good as this one? BTW i sat and watched you 4 tabling a couple of nights ago and i would rather watch paint dry tbh.dav
Posted by dav1964
They were in a ration of about 10:100 where the 10 were sarcy and bitc hy posts at silly OPs and the other 100 were either vaguely hidden strategy advice or just plain good advice, with some of them even giving explanations!!
If you truly believe that by calling here with the fd and having everyone see that you go all in with 'a speculative hand' then you may well get more action.
but yeah the hand i kinda agree with BD in that while you aren't getting the exact odds, if you have previous with the villain then it can be worth the call to set up a good table.
also as long as you are rolled for the level then you can make marginals like this .
but no one can argue with the pure maths that beaneh has provided. going on that alone it is a clear fold but as i said if i know that the villain will constantly reload/tilt etc id make it....
I like a good debate over a hand but this one is an easy fold tbh.
My post above proves thats it is a -ev call even in a perfect senario for us.
If your looking to create image there is many better ways of doing this and like beaneh said its not to important at 30nl on sky as they mostly only play their cards and the board.
at these stakes im guessin that the majority (not all) probably wont know if you should/shouldn't fold this hand if your going purely on the mathematical side of things!...
Yes your giving a gambling image -which is what you want. but at the same time in this particular hand i think its a safe to assume that the guy who pot bet into 5 other people will be makin the call- therefore giving you the correct odds. ok its not a 100% certain he's callin but a good educational guess would suggest he will. and like ive already said you may get the added bonus of one of the other guys callin also.
by makin the call here you are creating an excellent table image. and are very likely also making the correct mathematical call because i really cant see the guy folding! ... if it all goes horribly wrong, you reload simple! If you hit (in this case he would of done) you are more than doubling your stack and have a image of a gambler - happy days!