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Should i of called with pocket fives???
Hi all just asking opinions on my penultimate hand in the sky final at dtd.
everyone folds to the small blind and he pushes all in on me in the big blind,i look down at pocket fives and we have a chip count its 102k to call and i have 170k,i suspect he is on a steal but also realise he could have two overcards,after thinking for a short while i call he shows ace two of diamonds,so i only have to dodge one overcard but the inevitable happens and he spikes an ace on turn,the next hand gets folded to me in small blind and i push for 74k on a 10kblind with 1k antes(25k in the pot) and bb instantly calls.
do you think i should of folded my fives and do you think the bb should of folded his hand (he had q8 and hit an 8).
my reasoning for making a fairly loose call is that it would of put me into second place with a real possibility of winning the tourny
everyone folds to the small blind and he pushes all in on me in the big blind,i look down at pocket fives and we have a chip count its 102k to call and i have 170k,i suspect he is on a steal but also realise he could have two overcards,after thinking for a short while i call he shows ace two of diamonds,so i only have to dodge one overcard but the inevitable happens and he spikes an ace on turn,the next hand gets folded to me in small blind and i push for 74k on a 10kblind with 1k antes(25k in the pot) and bb instantly calls.
do you think i should of folded my fives and do you think the bb should of folded his hand (he had q8 and hit an 8).
my reasoning for making a fairly loose call is that it would of put me into second place with a real possibility of winning the tourny
Comments
Im not sure what i'd have done with the 55. Yes he could well be on the steal but at best you've got to think your 50/50 depends if you want to risk alot of your chips on a coin toss. There are alot of hands he would play the same where your 80/20 behind. 66,77 etc.
As it happends you where a big fav and got unlucky and i cant believe the bb next hand snap called you with q8
see u next tour?
Alex
You had only put in 11k I think from the above and its a coin flip at best in most situations (though it turns out to have been better than 50/50 for you) so I would probably have passed but I play much too passive.
saw your reply on the fact that sky let in more players (pro's) and i agree with you it was a great experiance to play with top players i had skullman on my table and he was a real gent,i think after this tourny my game has acually raised a level due to the fact it was such a great structure and and the quality of player that attended.......dave
Next hand, you're extremely unlucky to find a BB wanting to gamble, although - if i were in his position - im probably thinking that ur steaming and ur gonna shove given half the chance. Could be why he called with the average hand.
The snap call by the Q 8 was the donkest call of the whole tourney i saw and from a regular live dtd player too. Well done on how you handled being knocked out by him especially taking into account his far from gracious comments
Definite call IMO. Snap it with your hand in the air! You got three outered don't let the result colour your thinking. If you fold here you are definitely -EV in your tournament play!
We're going to feature this hand on Thursday 18th June! It will be our hot forum topic! Tune in to find out what Tikay would have done and whether Michelle agrees ;-)
It was nice meeting you again at the weekend and playing on the same table for a while, congratulations on getting so far.
I would probably have folded the 5's, but as you say it gave you a chance to build a really big stack and was worth taking the gamble.
Hi Davey,
Good to see you at the weekend.
Do I call there, with those Fives?
I'm afraid you'll have to wait until Thursday to find out - we plan to discuss the hand on the Show.
As to the Big Blinds call with spanners, I think you are thinking completely wrong here. Here's why.....
1) You cannot control what others do.
2) Concentrate on YOUR play, not the play of others. You did the right thing - you did - and that's ALL THAT MATTERS.
Getting back to that Call with Fives, ponder this, please.
a) What was the BEST situation you could reasonably hope for?
b) And what was the LIKELY situation you would face if you Called with 5-5?
Now turn that into probable odds. Chances are, theoretically, that you'd be facing a "flip". (The fact that you were not is irrelevant, & results orientated).
Great question, as it happens, & the answer - or more correctly, the reasoning behind my view - might just shock you.
Watch Thursday's Show, & you'll see it my way. Possibly......
I would have folded, because of the amount it would have left me and the fact that I could find a better situation with a stack size that gives you a lot of play. Please don't take this as a criticism, as i'm a tightish player and you finished higher than me.
I have come to the opinion that you dont win a tournament by the hands you win but by the hands you get off, that save your chips.
I made one mistake in 14 hours of play that crippled me, but i will put that in the mind bank and remember that hand next i'm in a similar situation. As long as we learn from our mistakes its not to bad.
Well done m8 and see you on the tables.
col
Yes, he had A2 but much more likely he had an overpair or two overcards, in which case you're either a small favourite or a massive dog.
As he is the one who shoved you had zero fold equity too - you'd have been statistically better folding the 55 and shoving with any two cards in the next hand. You still had M />10 so there was plenty of time to wait for a better situation to arise.
ps if you want to ring me during the show tk,(to ask me what the heck i was thinking of) feel free..
Be careful how you interpret my words, I write in jibberish, & it does not always come out as intended..
It's not so much a case of "waiting for a better hand". It's more a case of waiting for a better situation.
If you PUSH (first) with Fives, that's absolutely hunky-dory. In fact you can push first (given you have 17 X bb) with any two random cards. That is far better than Calling with 5-5.
In simple terms, it's this.
Assume when you call with Fives, your Oppo has two overs. So we are, roughly, 55/45, lets say Evens, or flipping.
But if you PUSH with 5-5, what odds do you think your is your hand now? Because the Odds to Call with 5-5, & the Odds to Jam with 5-5, are not the same......
Spot-on analysis.
2nd if you knew he had A2 would you have called ??? im sure you going to say yes ... so how can u be judgemental of your play ???
your call was better than you expected you just got outdraw m8..... cya soon
This is why I love poker - Tony we'll never agree - but how wonderful is that!
Guess i'm just down with the kidz ;-)
I have it on good authority that all shrewdies wld indeed snap hand in the air and would also scream we are getting paid lol.
But then again, it's all about the win for me..... What can i say! Even if we lose we still have a stack that can do some damage!
Looking forward to Michelle's opinion - i'll tune in for sure!
What is this Shreddies thing you speak of, please?
first of all you have to ask yourself if ....
A. Do you want to risk pretty much your tournament on a low pair thats at BEST 50-50 and at worst facing an over pair. Really when do you see 22 33 44 when you call an all in with 55, not very often. In this case when you called it was pretty much a dream situation for 55. As soon as you CALLED, you went from playing poker to gambling.
B. What is the BB going to do, you may well thought the Button was "stealing" but he could have been "stealing" with 67 at the very least ( coin toss) and the BB might be sat there with AA. Does the BB have you covered for your stack ?
C. How much you had in the pot. 6k ? Do you really need to be calling with what was a very vunerable hand? You wasnt committed at all.
D. can you pass this hand and then move at the blinds from the button next hand?
Reverse the situation.... A2 went all in from the button, his mind set was what ranges he put you and the bb to call with was pretty small... AA-99 AK AQs....pretty small %, he had what 100k ? theres 25k out there for free...his A looks pretty good in this spot, to win an uncontested pot for 25% of his stack.
In his mind the only hands that would require a call is such a small % that this play, with pretty much any 2 cards is profitable....Of course you can only do this so often then the other players will catch on and their calling hand requirement % go up.
So IMO, it was a bad call. You could have waited for better spots, the very next hand certainly being one. You think the BB will call with Q8 if you had pushed 170k and you had not just lost a massive pot. No chance. And you would have been sat there with nearly 200k.
But congrats on getting that far, you must have done something right...
All these hands should be stored in the memory bank for situations in the future.
You get the chips in first then great, you have 2 chances of winning, 1 by winning the pot uncontested, and 2, your hand holds up. By doing it first you increase your chances of winning by 50% or proberly statisically more.
Theres my 2 pence. Sorry if i sound critical. Just with the stack you had in relation to the blinds, you should fold 55 instant to an all in of that size. I think the only hands that I would be calling there are JJ-AA AK AKs AQs , everythingelse I muck instant and wait for a better spot, calling requirements vary depending on how you percieve the player to be and how hes been playing. I sat with Wayne on the first day and he seemed very tight, donno how much he stepped up later in the TNY but seemed to be solid to me only playing his cards. So I got a pretty limited hand range to call with, so proberly muck JJ too.
Liam
The problem you are having you are playing a donkament. The blinds get big you have to chuck your chips in, simple as that. I think you are trying to look at it as a game of skill. But in all honesty, there is not a lot of skill in poker when you have less than 15 big blinds. If you want a game of skill play cash, if you want throw you money in pre flop and cross your fingers play tournaments.
As for the hands, they are both very marginal hands, if it is folded round to me in late position or blinds, I shove. Keep my fingers crossed they fold or if they call, as there are 5 cards to come you are never that far behind. I wouldnt be calling with either hand.