In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT

Tikay10

Sorry for the delay in getting ITW # 2 started, but I hope it will have been worth waiting for.

After the success of Wacko in ITW # 1, the follow-up will be a tough ask, but I think OFFSHOOT - aka "Jon", will be perfect, & he has readily agreed to give it a bash. We really want a wide range of ITW subjects, & OFFSHOOT is a very different animal, at a different stage of his poker journey, to Wacko.

Some background on OFFSHOOT.

He started.......no, wait - that's for YOU to ask.
 
Enjoy, & many thanks to OFFSHOOT for agreeing to do this.

Let's go.

Tikay10

Where do you live, Jon?

You give the impression of being about 50 years old. Higher, or lower?

Tikay10

Any players you prefer to avoid in the cash games?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

Sky_Dave

Tunes you listen to while playing?

If you had the choice, what would you dump into Room 101?

Have you ever thought about quitting poker? If so, why were you thinking it and how did you pull through?

acebarry10

When did you start playing poker?

JAEGERBOMB

Where and when did you play your first game??

Whats your best tournament result on skypoker/online and live

Why choice the alias "offshoot"

Whats your favourite cash-game level?

Who was your childhood crush/sweetheart?

Is in your opinion tikay older than the queen??

What is your favourite starting hand?? and is there any premium/marginal starting-hand that you try not to play or particularly have bad success with??

unknown_username

Do you ever use the "Chat Box" whilst playing Cash Games or MTT's?
 
Does the "Chat Box" effect your game in any way?

Do you have any lucky charms with you when you play Live or online poker?

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Where do you live, Jon? You give the impression of being about 50 years old. Higher, or lower?
Posted by Tikay10

i live in Edinburgh, lovely city. Ive lived in Scotland most of my life but im actually English, born in Preston.

Im 28 years old, i guess thats old in the poker world nowadays so maybe thats why i give the impression of being 50.

unknown_username

Do you have a partner? and do they mind if you're on the laptop for a ages(ignoring them) running deep in a mtt?

At what cash level would you say the opponents change from recreational players to serious ones?

Whats the best compliment to a cheese sandwich? pickle? tomatoe? or maybe another? 

MAXALLY

Hi Jon.....good luck in your time in the 'well'.

Couple of questions,

From the League table, it seems you play no STT's and very few MTT's. Have you always just been mainly a cash player or did you start at the beginning of your poker life playing other variations?

How many other sites do you play on?

Cheers,

Alan

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Any players you prefer to avoid in the cash games? If so, why? If not, why not?
Posted by Tikay10

Depends how im feeling but usually i try not to avoid anyone because the player pool is so small on sky, its better to try and figure out your opponents than avoid them. I dont like playing HU or 3 handed though so will usually quit those tables when im multitabling but will usually sit at any table if its 4-handed or more.

Some of the biggest adjustments ive made to my game have come after playing in really tough games where ive been crushed so i would say once youre really comfortable at a certain level and can afford to take a shot its not so bad to sit in a game where you maybe dont have an edge once in a while. Just not all the time.

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Tunes you listen to while playing? If you had the choice, what would you dump into Room 101? Have you ever thought about quitting poker? If so, why were you thinking it and how did you pull through?
Posted by Sky_Dave

i listen to a wide variety of stuff, bands currently on the playlist... The Vaccines, The Rural Alberta Advantage, Cut Copy, Everything Everything. I much prefer to watch tv shows though while playing most of the time.

Room 101 - The Daily Mail, In fact all the tabloids, but mainly the Daily Mail, makes my blood boil, Cant think of anything else at the moment.

Ive never seriously thought about quitting, i mean with every downswing comes the thought 'what if i cant start winning again' but really ive never gave it serious thought, mainly because i dont know what i'd do if i quit. Working harder at poker always seems like the best option.

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

When did you start playing poker?
Posted by acebarry10

When i lived in Australia for a year in 2004 i used to live right next to the casino , they had just introduced limit holdem and i'd been watching the WSOP on tv quite a bit, the one Moneymaker won, so i bought a book and while i was reading it used to go and watch people playing, once i'd finished the book i decided to sit down and play 5/10 limit. I won every day for probably more than a week before it all went pear shaped, looking back i was so terrible and that limit game probably couldnt even be beat cos the rake was so high. When i got back to Scotland i started to play online. I dont think ive played limit since though.

YOUNG_GUN

Hi

What Stakes did u start playing online?

How many times have u gone busto on ur poker account? eg. had to start again

Again interested whether u started from cash or MTT/STT? what would be your best advice for the transition from tourneys to cash?

Many Thanks
John(with a 'H' )

hurst05

i remember a couple of years ago when i played recreationally i met you at the 50nl games. how long did you grind at this level for and what bankroll rule did you set yourself for moving up the levels? 

also when your say 10+ tabling, are you still able to think about what you are doing for what reasons etc or is it a case of playing dependant on your cards/position and the notes you have on the player(s)?

a00rock

Jon
How many tables do you play comfortably when multi tabling?
How long are your sessions?
Do you support a football team if so which?

Gl mate

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Where and when did you play your first game?? Whats your best tournament result on skypoker/online and live Why choice the alias "offshoot" Whats your favourite cash-game level? Who was your childhood crush/sweetheart? Is in your opinion tikay older than the queen?? What is your favourite starting hand?? and is there any premium/marginal starting-hand that you try not to play or particularly have bad success with??
Posted by JAEGERBOMB

best tourney result was when i won the bounty hunter i think, cant remember how much it was. ive only ever played one live tournament and didnt cash. I dont play a lot of tournaments and have only recently started taking them a bit more seriously. When you look at my sharkscope you can see a huge nosedive at the start because i would literally play every hand, call every all in just to try and get a big stack and wouldnt care if i got knocked out. That got less fun after a while so i decided to stop doing that. I still dont take them as seriously as i should though. They tilt me too much.

Offshoot is just a random word. No real meaning.

favourite cash game level? dunno, i play 100nl and 200nl the most though. I remember a couple of years ago the 500nl game used to run everyday on here, those were the days, if only i knew then what i know now, unfortunately i wasnt very good then and those games dont run anymore.

Tikay older than the queen? most definitely, the first ever postage stamp had a picture of Tikay on it instead of the Queen i think.

favourite starting hand is probably 22 or 53, Easier to get paid off when you hit.

i never play ace rag. I remember when i first started playing poker i read somewhere that people lose more money with weak aces than any other starting hands so i just never played  them. You usually end up winning small pots and losing bigger ones.

Tikay10

".....i never play ace rag. I remember when i first started playing poker i read somewhere that people lose more money with weak aces than any other starting hands so i just never played  them. You usually end up winning small pots and losing bigger ones......"

Brilliant.

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Do you ever use the "Chat Box" whilst playing Cash Games or MTT's?   Does the "Chat Box" effect your game in any way? Do you have any lucky charms with you when you play Live or online poker?
Posted by POKERTREV

i dont ue the chat box anymore, i used to and when i tilted i used to chat rage and make myself even more tilted, i dont chat at all anymore and it definitely helps.

i dont have any lucky charms, but kind of on the subject. I will make sure i tidy up my desk and its surroundings before i play in a ritual-like fashion, i fell like it gets me in the right frame of mind to sit down and concentrate and take it seriously. It would be easy just to sit down in my boxers and in the surrounding mess and just grind but i think that lazy attitude can seep into your game. If your in a nice clean enviroment and sit down in a proper chair(no laptop on the couch) your gonna play better cos youre taking it more seriously.

YOUNG_GUN

Whos your best mate on here?

how many hours roughly do u spend playing a weel?

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Do you have a partner? and do they mind if you're on the laptop for a ages(ignoring them) running deep in a mtt? At what cash level would you say the opponents change from recreational players to serious ones? Whats the best compliment to a cheese sandwich? pickle? tomatoe? or maybe another? 
Posted by Neildown

no partner so dont have that worry, but i mean any partner i do have i hope would realise its my job and wouldnt complain about it.

Im not sure but i would say the players get decent around 50nl, Even at 50nl though theres still a lot of bad players, its the same with 100nl but the difference is the regs are better. Once you get to 200nl the tables become full of regs with 1 or 2 weak players. I would say probably the biggest jump is from 50nl to 100nl though. My viewpoint maybe a bit off though as i havent played 50nl regualrly for a while.

Put cheese on toast, add salami, put in the microwave for 30 seconds. Amazing.

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Hi Jon.....good luck in your time in the 'well'. Couple of questions, From the League table, it seems you play no STT's and very few MTT's. Have you always just been mainly a cash player or did you start at the beginning of your poker life playing other variations? How many other sites do you play on? Cheers, Alan
Posted by MAXALLY

When i first started playing online i would play $5 sitngos. I probably played sitngos for about a year with absolutely no success. i used to deposit 20 quid then just play $5 and $10 sitnogos til i went bust. I sucked pretty badly.

 I do remember though on one of the other site they have those jackpot sitngos where you have to win 5 in a row for $15k, i won 4 in a row then got beat in the 5th HU QQ vs A7 or something, felt like smashing the computer up but used the $200 consolation prize to start playing a bit of cash and started playing cash pretty much all the time from then on.

 I would say sitngos are probably quite a good way to build your roll at the microstakes though  if you take the time to learn basic strategy.

I pretty much play on Sky all the time now but have played on most of the major sites at one point or another, nowadays its usually when theres no games running on sky or im tilted.

AcidMan27

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT : Put cheese on toast, add salami, put in the microwave for 30 seconds. Amazing.
Posted by offshoot

+1, I also put a sprinkling of black pepper on it too....om nom nom nom.

JAEGERBOMB

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT : best tourney result was when i won the bounty hunter i think, cant remember how much it was. ive only ever played one live tournament and didnt cash. I dont play a lot of tournaments and have only recently started taking them a bit more seriously. When you look at my sharkscope you can see a huge nosedive at the start because i would literally play every hand, call every all in just to try and get a big stack and wouldnt care if i got knocked out. That got less fun after a while so i decided to stop doing that. I still dont take them as seriously as i should though. They tilt me too much. Offshoot is just a random word. No real meaning. favourite cash game level? dunno, i play 100nl and 200nl the most though. I remember a couple of years ago the 500nl game used to run everyday on here, those were the days, if only i knew then what i know now, unfortunately i wasnt very good then and those games dont run anymore. Tikay older than the queen? most definitely, the first ever postage stamp had a picture of Tikay on it instead of the Queen i think. favourite starting hand is probably 22 or 53, Easier to get paid off when you hit. i never play ace rag. I remember when i first started playing poker i read somewhere that people lose more money with weak aces than any other starting hands so i just never played  them. You usually end up winning small pots and losing bigger ones.
Posted by offshoot

This must win forum post of the week and a free entry into VLV Final surely????

Ps Im sure Rich wont mention this during the next live show will you Rich?? Hint Hint

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Hi What Stakes did u start playing online? How many times have u gone busto on ur poker account? eg. had to start again Again interested whether u started from cash or MTT/STT? what would be your best advice for the transition from tourneys to cash? Many Thanks John(with a 'H' )
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

I started off playing $5 or $10 sitnogos. I think when i tried out cash it was at 100nl, i had zero clue about bankroll management and would reguarly go bust. If were talking £20 deposits its probably more than 30 times at a conservative estimate. If were talking bigger bankrolls when i first started i remember coming 2nd in a freeroll for £800 and having more than £1k in my account before bustoing it. I then ran $3 into more than £4k before going busto. That one probably hurt the most because i finally thought i figured it out but then 5/10nl got the better of me. I almost busto'd a 17k bankroll one time playing 10/20 and 25/50 but stopped with about 2k left and havent been broke since then.

I have to say though those were some dark times. Over time you learn to cope with downswings and bad beats but back then i had zero tilt control and it took a log time to get over losing that much. Probably the perfect example of how not to build a bankroll. Also a perfect example of someone wiith zero 'natural ability' for poker i guess. I had zero tilt control, no BRM skills, terrible at math and i lost consistently for years. Im a strong believer that anything is possible though if you set your mind on it and work hard enough.

Transitioning from tourney to cash you have to accept that a successfull tournament strategy is probably not gonna be the right way to win at cash. In tournaments youre constantly trying to risk the least amount of chips and pick up the blinds etc. and play smallball while waiting for a big hand where as in cash youre looking to get max value from every hand.

In cash you are gonna be put in the exact same situations as your opponents over and over. If you only get 2 streets of value with tptk and everytime they have tptk they get 3 streets of value from you youre not gonna be making much money in the long run. So dont be scared to get the money in when you have a big hand or dont expect other people to build pots for you.

Tikay10

This is really fascinating. A tale is emerging of a bloke who was useless at poker, & useless at Bankroll Management. As such, skinto was inevitable.

And yet, somehow, out of that mess, he sorted himself out, turned it all round, & now makes a nice little living by sitting at home & playing a game, & a (relatively) high-stakes game at that.

Tell us more about that transition, how you got from A to B? 

Tikay10

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT : I started off playing $5 or $10 sitnogos. I think when i tried out cash it was at 100nl, i had zero clue about bankroll management and would reguarly go bust. If were talking £20 deposits its probably more than 30 times at a conservative estimate. If were talking bigger bankrolls when i first started i remember coming 2nd in a freeroll for £800 and having more than £1k in my account before bustoing it. I then ran $3 into more than £4k before going busto. That one probably hurt the most because i finally thought i figured it out but then 5/10nl got the better of me. I almost busto'd a 17k bankroll one time playing 10/20 and 25/50 but stopped with about 2k left and havent been broke since then. I have to say though those were some dark times. Over time you learn to cope with downswings and bad beats but back then i had zero tilt control and it took a log time to get over losing that much. Probably the perfect example of how not to build a bankroll. Also a perfect example of someone wiith zero 'natural ability' for poker i guess. I had zero tilt control, no BRM skills, terrible at math and i lost consistently for years. Im a strong believer that anything is possible though if you set your mind on it and work hard enough. Transitioning from tourney to cash you have to accept that a successfull tournament strategy is probably not gonna be the right way to win at cash. In tournaments youre constantly trying to risk the least amount of chips and pick up the blinds etc. and play smallball while waiting for a big hand where as in cash youre looking to get max value from every hand. In cash you are gonna be put in the exact same situations as your opponents over and over. If you only get 2 streets of value with tptk and everytime they have tptk they get 3 streets of value from you youre not gonna be making much money in the long run. So dont be scared to get the money in when you have a big hand or dont expect other people to build pots for you.
Posted by offshoot

Just common-sense, that - but an absolute gem.

unknown_username

hiya Jon
your sitting in a cash game theres a player constantly raising into you your card dead,is there a point you fight back with a2c or do you jusr re-raise straight away with a2c anyway just to let them know you wont be bullied
thx m8 sean..

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

i remember a couple of years ago when i played recreationally i met you at the 50nl games. how long did you grind at this level for and what bankroll rule did you set yourself for moving up the levels?  also when your say 10+ tabling, are you still able to think about what you are doing for what reasons etc or is it a case of playing dependant on your cards/position and the notes you have on the player(s)?
Posted by hurst05

yeah near the end of 2009 i dropped down to 50nl after a rough downswing.  Not really for bankroll reasons but more because i was pretty much sucking  and had been playing terribly for a while. I wasnt even sure i could beat 200nl anymore. I would say i grinded 50nl exclusively for like 2 months, then did 100nl and 50nl for the next month or so. In that time i think i improved my game massively and totally changed my game. i didnt really set myself any rules on when to move up and in fact i was quite content to stay at 50nl as long as i was winning. I played about 8 hours a day non stop and after 2 months felt like i was playing well enough to jump up and try 100nl+ again. Ive never set myself bankroll rules but i guess a 30 buyin rule is ok. I think its more being comfortable at the level your moving up to that you can still play your A game and not feel the pain of losing multiple buyins. I think aggressive shot taking is the way to go if you have the discipline to set a stoploss and move back down if it doesnt go well.

When multitabling i would say over time my thought process just got up to speed with how many tables im playing. I had the same thought process when 5 or 6 tabling as i do now when playing 12+tables i just am able to process all the information quicker. What position im in, what the action has been, who's to act after me etc. Sometimes i make mistakes i wouldnt 4 tabling but on the whole i think i play the same.

  I find it helps to think through a lot of 'what ifs' aswell like if he calls my bet on the flop am i gonna bet turn, what if he raises? a lot of the time they will fold and its easy but its good to have a plan for the hand if you get put in awkward spots because you can be thinking about this stuff while your making all the standard decisions on the other tables.

Notes are handy for randoms but i dont take notes on regs usually. 

offshoot

In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT:

Jon How many tables do you play comfortably when multi tabling? How long are your sessions? Do you support a football team if so which? Gl mate
Posted by a00rock

i usually open up all the tables that are running 100nl and above. 12 is comfortable, i can manage upto about 16 before things get a bit hectic.

I try and play at least 2 hours a day, i usually get to about 3 hours and then i start making more mistakes so usually quit. Im gonna start trying to play at least 5 hours a day but i dont like playing during the day when there arent many tables running. Last month was the highest Cash4Points total ive ever got, 36k, and i played 84 hours last month. Im gonna try and start getting that every month(not this one though).

I support man u.

unknown_username

Hi Offshoot.

What book were you reading in Oz?

How much did it help you?

Do you eat porridge now you live in Scotland?