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Are you struggling to understand the concept.. When did Man U last play a div 4 team on a regular basis. If Sir A said to his boys that they would be playing Div 4 teams every week the good players would all leave... Do you now get my point!!!
This is about the standard of players being so poor by so many that its more akin to Bingo!! I dont wish to play poker to someone shoving 2000 chips into me when they arent pot committed with 2 3 and catching lucky beating my AA.
I am suggesting we work on these people and get away from Bingo.. if we do then we will find poker a lot more fun and this site to become more serious.. do you disagree?
You want to play against bad fishy players.
If you cant win lots against bad fishy players, how are you going to beat better ones?
I like you magicalman, having met you in Luton, but i have never read so much rubbish in my life. Im sorry to be blunt but thats the way it is!!!
I think you need to listen to Dohhhhhh and Lol_raise and any other decent winning player on here. Work on your own game rather than criticizing others who are entilted to play any 2 cards whatever way they wish
If people wanna play bingo and ship it in preflop with any2, fine. Just adapt your game to theirs! you will win more in the long run.
Best of luck sir. But to say that good players will leave because bad players are here is UTTER GARBAGE.
The more bad players, the more sharks will come to eat them alive.
This thread isn't about good players, it isn't about winning all the time. This thread is purely focussing on a standard of play, or lack of standard.
The consequence of this has its main effect during the 1st third of a torney.
My suggestion is we help the newbies understand the basics which should improve the attraction of the site to others.
It seems to me you believe the standard is good and don't think that by raising the standard of player this will not be of benefit.
Back to football teams. I am sure this philosophy isnt adopted by any of the team managers as they strive to raise the standard
I can assure you lots of very good players no longer play here. Please read the Irishrover thread which highlights at least 20 people.
Imagine you had a home game and one player didnt have a clue out of 10.. Thats fine.. Now Imagine that home game where 9 pople didnt have a clue, How long before you would stop playing!!! So do you think that helping people to play to a good basic standard would improve the site and it attraction to others, or not??
2. Sky do help people alot!!!... the poker school is great as is the analysis on the TV on the live shows!! but they can only help people who want to be helped and who are prepared to listen!!! But, I think generally, the more bad players that are here the more attractive the site is to good solid winning players.
Becoming quite comical how cards appear straight away for underdogs and it appears that the rng is looking for a card to suit Sky!
I may be wrong here but your desire to play against the worst players is likely to be a direct reflection on your play. Personally i wish to play against people who understand the basics, that doesn't mean to say they are good it just means to say that they wont play irrationally. I want to be play the best so i have a chance in being the best and so I am in good company and can learn
I am sure you would like to play a room full of bad players, maybe this is a direct reflection!
1. There is a difference between poor play and a total inability to play which is what i am referring to.
2 I watch Sky a lot and I really think most of you are assuming they provide good advice to beginners. I totally disagree as I believe they aim at a player who has a good basic understanding and wishes o improve. Having watched it for he las 6 months I can't recall anyone explaining the top 10 premium hands.
When you see people calling all ins totally not po committed wih 63 then there is something awry and, as i have been trying to explain, the mor ther ar th highr the chances of silly bad beats occuring and, more importanly, the solid playrs knowing where they are. At this point good players leave trying to seek a basic sandard of poker player to play.
Anyone who doesnt know the basics of the game and how to play is damm right dangerous to you and themselves.
You disagree. If you dont understand that it takes a certain BASIC standard of play to make a good game then so be it. Ther is a difference between a player who can play but isn't very good and someone who doesn't have the first idea. This site has a vast majority of people who don't have a clue. Instead of continually arguing explain why you want to b associated with a site only attracting irrational players and secondly take some time to speak with live players who also play online. The feedback i have got back is Sky is FULL of donks who haven't a clue.
You obviously want this but me, I don' thank you. I want a good game and they do occur on this site but 1) Rarely at week ends and 2) Rarely in the first 45mins of play.
I stand for Investing time in newcomers to get the standard of play to a basic consistent level wherea you, Pod1 and Greg clearly don't see this as a benefit to the site. You wish the site to atract he lowes common denominator and be seen as a joke.
Please refer to the original thread. This is NOT about me or my abiliy to play. This is about investing time improving the standard of play as it will, or will not, depending on your perspective, lead to a far better site attracing a higher standard of players.
You advocate that improving the standard of play would not be in the interst of improving the site and would be detrimental along with Greghogg and POD1
I had a long convo with magicman today and hes a very pleasant and undertstaning guy,.has got my fulll respect and i give him that because he feels and acts so passionately about this game weve all come to enjoy.,
Hope given time the site will is much improved and will be a lot better all round for its players with ie a top tier level entry for those said players with the correct knowledge and play..
Best regards Aaron. ajw1976
Ok... Mr Magic, i get the point you are making about having an enjoyable recreational game and that if everyone is playing "bingo" poker, you do not find this challenging or interesting.
But, if you play against all good players there is no value, and only the rake will win.
A balance of abilities at any poker table is good, i think we can agree on this point. But give me 5 bingo players over 5 good players any day of the week, because if i wait for big hands i will beat the bingo players without having to do anything. Its basically printing money!!!
I have played 32 suited before and this is live and i have crushed his aces heads up with the guy ,....
You have to play a wide range of everything when and if needed. gl magicman.Hope that helps.btw listen to greghogg he does talk a lot of sense and he has some serious results to show fer it..
This site must be a Quantum site as we seem to be living in parallel worlds. Le me give you 2 examples I remember today.
Blinds 10/20 UTG Raiser for 100 Sara (don't know her hand)
SM Calls for 100. I in the BB raise to 500 wih QQ,
UTG calls and SB shoves 2000 with K3
This is dumbarse play
UG raises 60 with J10
Next reraises to 150
I call coz i am fishing wih 55
SB calls.
FLOP 10 5 2 (rainbow)
UTG raises 100
Next guy reraises 200
So I am getting mega info and I have a set of 555 with 4 plaers in so time to hin down he crowd.
I reraise to 500
SB then decides he wants to shove all in.
Ok lets do some analysis. I am likey to have the best hand wih 555 2 10
The UTG has lile or nothing, I am thinking the first raiser has an overpair and the SB has an overpair.
By this time if you have a 10 in your hand then its likely you are dead and if you do then make sure you have an ace kicker.
Outcome the UTG had j10 and called.
the first raiser had AA
The shover had position and QQ
Question: as the J10 was ulimaely the last to act.. HOW can he think his J10 is good.
turn and river card is 10 then Jack />>>> The DONK wins because he never took on board ANY of the 12 bits of info he got.
Please spend the time I do playing torneys and watch the ludicrous calls, and thenask yourself if you could justify such call once you see the hands. the reason I know is I have notes on players and the amount which say BINGO is unreal.
Bingo to me is someone who plays real rubbish and when confronted with bags of info.
I have watched people call to an all in because they have top pair and a 2 kicker. Trust me I really am talking abou nonsensical play. To re affirm this i scope them and find they are down 1000 or 2000 in 500 games. This is my point and the ones I am talking about
Greg, there is such a gap between good players and top players its unreal. The skill in outstanding play is to work out how you can extract the most from someone, know what they are playing, seduce them into letting them chase that flush draw when you have the FH etc etc and also fighting your way out of a corner when you are chip dead. The amount of times I have got a great player to shove his 66 ino my aces is countless and, it has happened plenty of times when i have been suckered too.
Once you are in the company of good players its all about maximising winnings, minimising losses and the occasional bluff if you are confident you can get them to lay down.. This is the fun part and I want to say to someone Nice call when he calls me with his pair 10 10 wih my hand in the cookie jar but thats because he really thought about it and sussed me out. Not some donk who shouldnt be in the hand, has no idea, should have folded the flop and runner runner out of trouble.
Maybe I am giving players too much credit but all i know is when I am on form and my radar is tuned in I can do this and this is the fun part.
I don't mind Bad beats as long as it all makes a modicum of sense.. 2 questions being 1) based on their position, cards, the pre flop betting and chip stack should they be in the hand in the first place and 2) Once in could I justify how they played it.
You will recall my big loss to Julian in Luton. he had a short chip stack and chose to play J10 suited for a 1/3 of his stack when he had no equity.
Once the flop dropped he decided to big semi bluff me off which wasnt going to work.
2 things I learnt
1) my bet size was too small as blinds were 800/1600 plus 1000 in antis. I opened for 5000 and should have been 8-10k in which case he would not have played.
2) Julian likes suited connectors to gamble with so if he is short and between you and the BB dont price him in, especially if the action is slow coz he likes fast paced games.
I wont let that happen again in a hurry.
The players I am referring to play to this level. They consider their hand, position and who they are up against. Dohh mentioned some names but to be honest I can think of other players i would prefr not to play against, Dirwolf, NoFinace, Sizzling and, of late MickJenn as he is gambling less and playing damm solid. These guys are consistent and you don't have a clue if they are raising with 23, 88 AK or AA. They can fold but they can also counterbluff, they arent afraid to check which is perceived as a sign of weakness to most players but is actually a very solid part of your tool box.
To summarise, all i want to do is get the real bad players to learn about the basics and I am convinced this will lead to a better sandard all round and the gr8 players will still lose or win by being able to fold AA or not as the case maybe.
Your analysis of that j10 hand in Luton is plain wrong imo. It was not 1/3 of his stack! he had about 40k behind. it was prob about 1/8 of his stack, may have been more! I know this because i was in the BB and i seriously considered shoving the lot with 92 off suit to try to take it down pre.
Then i realised, based on your previous play, that you are probably not folding any of your range, so i folded. Julian was trying to play a flop in position against a weaker player (you) and when he sees that flop there is no way he cannot get the chips in because he has a str8 draw, a flush draw and 2 overs! i seem to recall you had 88 on a 679 (2 diamond) board! He had J10 diamonds. just a cooler! which you lost on the river, and then suggested (wrongly) afterwards that Julian had played it badly!
As it happens if i had shipped pre, you snap call, and Julian folds, and my 9 hits on the flop and wins. I guess you would have been called me a "bingo" player if that had happened...
You "dont mind bad beats as long as it makes sense"! what does this mean? a bad beat by definition is where you get your money in way ahead and get unlucky. treat all bad beats the same. Be happy that you got your money in good. the rest is up to the poker gods innit.
My poker has come exclusively from Sky. I'd never played the game in any format, watched a bit on late night telly and thought I'd like to have a go. I'm only a novice, but I manage to keep myself top side of break even based on what I've seen on the TV, what I've looked at on the poker school section of the website and asking the odd question on the forum.
I try to improve my game by playing against better players than myself when I get a chance within my bankroll. Playing most of Monday nights Tikay sat next to Solack was a very interesting experience, and some of what I learnt helped get me to the final table of last nights 7.15 deepstack. Taking a few quid off of the bottom end players helps to pay for those games.
Players have to accept they need to learn before they're going to improve.