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yes or no question.....

2

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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    don't you guys have something better to gossip about? Geodie Shore is on tonight, and Neighbours is getting mighty interesting... Come on now, some of this stuff is absolutely ridics. Chirpy has it spot on, you're all delusional.
    Posted by pryce6
    What did you think when the DoJ shut down 3 poker sites and arrested 11 senior executives for fraudulent trading? "Surely, this must be a level?" Sky is controlled by News International, owner of the News of the World. What did you think when you heard that the NOTW had been hacking into people's phones? "Surely, this must be a level?"

    How much of that is delusional?
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    don't you guys have something better to gossip about? Geodie Shore is on tonight, and Neighbours is getting mighty interesting... Come on now, some of this stuff is absolutely ridics. Chirpy has it spot on, you're all delusional.
    Posted by pryce6

    Have a word with Davey - he started it all off again.

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  • ChirpyChipChirpyChip
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : What did you think when the DoJ shut down 3 poker sites and arrested 11 senior executives for fraudulent trading? "Surely, this must be a level?" Sky is controlled by News International, owner of the News of the World. What did you think when you heard that the NOTW had been hacking into people's phones? "Surely, this must be a level?" How much of that is delusional?
    Posted by Seagull158

    Well the fact that Sky isin't controlled by News International for a start
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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : Well the fact that Sky isin't controlled by News International for a start
    Posted by ChirpyChip
    Newscorp has a 39.1% stake in Sky. To all intents and purposes that is control.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : Newscorp has a 39.1% stake in Sky. To all intents and purposes that is control.
    Posted by Seagull158


    In a large multi-shareholder corporation that is probably true. Specifically you need in excess of 50% to have total control.

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  • Seagull158Seagull158
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : In a large multi-shareholder corporation that is probably true. Specifically you need in excess of 50% to have total control.
    Posted by elsadog
    It was publicly stated and agreed that they currently already have effective control when they announced their intent to buy the remaining 60.9% a few months back.  
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  • pod1pod1
    edited June 2011
    quick question is the same sky rng used for both money and play money games?
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : The point AMYBR is making is that putting all your trust in a company that is prepared to, bribe banks, launder illegal income and set-up shadow companies and obviously isn't as white as the driven snow, might not be a shrewd move. Similarly a company that is prepared to illegally tap telephone conversations in order to further it's business plans isn't above reproach. None of these illegal activities are directly related to rigging the cards or any other fixing of games, however to say they would never do it or consider it isn't wise with their track record of illegal dealings. As to why would they do/consider rigging the game, it has been debated to death and for every argument there is an equally convincing argument from the other side. There are sound financial reasons for changing the game from it's natural state but that doesn't mean it happens. Conversely not being caught doesn't prove innocence, after all up to the point that the FBI/DoJ intervened in the PS, FT and UB there was no suspicion by the general public that they were involved in any illegal enterprises, and why would they - they make millions from the game and surely wouldn't jeopardise it all for extra profit - or would they? Thoughtless rantings about rigging by losing players are foolish, but so is blind faith in an organisation you know little or nothing about. 
    Posted by elsadog
    Thankyou elsa, this is it entirely.

    I'm bored and tired of the narrow minded way people look at it and am beyond trying to have a reasoned conversation on it.  I'm glad you fleshed it out.

    If people want to shut their eyes, ears and minds to the fact that there are highlighted corrupt practices and very loosely governed legislation then thats up to them.

    I just get utterly fricking annoyed by the derision that is aimed at people who dare open the door to the possibilities that companies that have been penalised for being corrupt in the past, could possibily be corrupt again.

    Whether there is or isnt something amiss with online poker in general, the fools are the people who never stop to put serious thought into the potential for corruption.

    What other business model anywhere in the world is beyond reproach??  But no, all is well, zero possibility of corruption on any level.  The idiots are those of us who ask questions.....the clever people are those with blind faith in a virtual product with a stamp on it.


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  • MohicanMohican
    edited June 2011
    People are entitled to their opinions and if they think the poker sites are rigged to create action hands etc then so be it. What I can't stand is the same people posting hand after hand complaining it's rigged,typical skyjoker etc.
    Seriously, if you think it's that bad,don't play or play on another site but don't keep posting the same inane drivel with hands you think are rigged. FWIW, all the so called rigged for action hands that are regularly posted on here I've seen happen live. It's just poker.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    People are entitled to their opinions and if they think the poker sites are rigged to create action hands etc then so be it. What I can't stand is the same people posting hand after hand complaining it's rigged,typical skyjoker etc. Seriously, if you think it's that bad,don't play or play on another site but don't keep posting the same inane drivel with hands you think are rigged. FWIW, all the so called rigged for action hands that are regularly posted on here I've seen happen live. It's just poker.
    Posted by Mohican


    There are two levels to this. You and others seem to conveniently ignore one level. You rant on about people who rant on about it being rigged and posting hands in the very section designed for them to do that very thing. Yet when a constructive argument against your stance of blind faith in any poker site is put forward you ignore it. You're as bad as the guys who post a two outer every day as proof of it being rigged. In your own ways your both blind.

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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    People are entitled to their opinions and if they think the poker sites are rigged to create action hands etc then so be it. What I can't stand is the same people posting hand after hand complaining it's rigged,typical skyjoker etc. Seriously, if you think it's that bad,don't play or play on another site but don't keep posting the same inane drivel with hands you think are rigged. FWIW, all the so called rigged for action hands that are regularly posted on here I've seen happen live. It's just poker.
    Posted by Mohican
    I think you'll find I havent voiced an opinion on this subject matter for a long time, for the reasons you quote.

    I opted in on this occassion for the reasons I mentioned.  Just plain tired of people aiming scorn and derision at those who ask questions.  I agree with you fully that if you believe there is something amiss you shouldnt play.  What I dont agree with is the way people who have bad experiences are treated as a rule.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : There are two levels to this. You and others seem to conveniently ignore one level. You rant on about people who rant on about it being rigged and posting hands in the very section designed for them to do that very thing. Yet when a constructive argument against your stance of blind faith in any poker site is put forward you ignore it. You're as bad as the guys who post a two outer every day as proof of it being rigged. In your own ways your both blind.
    Posted by elsadog
    Big fat +1, you beat me to it.  Selective hypocrisy and double standards ftw :p
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited June 2011
    Do I have blind faith in sky or any of the other big corps who run online poker networks? No

    Is there any evidence they rig online poker ? No

    I'm not saying there is no chance someone could decide to try rig online poker, but at the moment I have seen no evidence that its rigged. Some of these companies have engaged in shady/illegal practices but not in the area of rigging the game
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited June 2011

    It's because 99% of people who complain are losing players. They all play micros, and don't understand variance, how severe it can be, etc etc.

    So when they lose, they look past all the real issues, and conclude that it's something beyond their control that's causing them to fail.

    These kinda people don't deserve any respect for their opinions imo because they haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

    It's like me going on to a politics forum and shouting off about whats right and wrong etc, when clearly I haven't got a clue what I'm going on about, I'm just p'd off for whatever reason and want to find someone to blame.

    However.....

    On the rare occasion that a good/winning/respected player comes on for a rant.....

    You (I) sit up and take notice, and read what they are saying with a more open mind. There have been a few examples, with Stein, elsadog and baggs, Irishman who all make money.

    They all must understand variance etc to make money out of poker for a reasonable period of time.

    But still, they are in such a minority, and after considering their P.O.V and individual circumstances/reasons for ranting etc, you (I) come to the conclusion that they are wrong, and taking their frustrations out on the rng.
     
    (I remember a post I made a few months back where you asked me to explain why I thought elsa and Irish were suspicious of the rng, I could do the same for baggs & stein if u like, but again, only my opinion)


    But even with the 4 players I mentioned above, (a winning cash player at low/medium stakes, a winning mid-stakes tourny player, a micro stakes tourny winner, and a low/mid stakes sit n go player.........)

    ......there are tonnes of players on sky who are far better/more experienced/successful than they are. If these players, eg, nutter, lolufold, offshoot, zayo came on the forum and claimed something was amiss - I'd be really really interested in what they had to say, and extremely worried. Because they understand the game we're playing better than anyone. They play more than anyone. They're in a much better position to comment on the validity of the site than ppl like elsadog and stein......

    elsadog and stein in turn are in a much better position to comment on the site than people like bigal and seagul.....

    Who in turn are better positioned to comment on the site than these random plonkers who play 5 tournys and think it's rigged, like discopig/AJW (mickey mouse man) etc......


    So yeh the way I respond to area51 posts depends on who it is I am responding to, not what they are saying. Takes 45 seconds to sharkscope someone and conclude instantly wether they're a total donk talking total rubbish, or someone who might deserve the time of day.

    Anyway, I'm back writing essays. Good times. lol

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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    It's because 99% of people who complain are losing players. They all play micros, and don't understand variance, how severe it can be, etc etc. So when they lose, they look past all the real issues, and conclude that it's something beyond their control that's causing them to fail. These kinda people don't deserve any respect for their opinions imo because they haven't got a clue what they are talking about. It's like me going on to a politics forum and shouting off about whats right and wrong etc, when clearly I haven't got a clue what I'm going on about, I'm just p'd off for whatever reason and want to find someone to blame. However..... On the rare occasion that a good/winning/respected player comes on for a rant..... You (I) sit up and take notice, and read what they are saying with a more open mind. There have been a few examples, with Stein, elsadog and baggs, Irishman who all make money. They all must understand variance etc to make money out of poker for a reasonable period of time. But still, they are in such a minority, and after considering their P.O.V and individual circumstances/reasons for ranting etc, you (I) come to the conclusion that they are wrong, and taking their frustrations out on the rng.   (I remember a post I made a few months back where you asked me to explain why I thought elsa and Irish were suspicious of the rng, I could do the same for baggs & stein if u like, but again, only my opinion) But even with the 4 players I mentioned above, (a winning cash player at low/medium stakes, a winning mid-stakes tourny player, a micro stakes tourny winner, and a low/mid stakes sit n go player.........) ......there are tonnes of players on sky who are far better/more experienced/successful than they are. If these players, eg, nutter, lolufold, offshoot, zayo came on the forum and claimed something was amiss - I'd be really really interested in what they had to say, and extremely worried. Because they understand the game we're playing better than anyone. They play more than anyone. They're in a much better position to comment on the validity of the site than ppl like elsadog and stein...... elsadog and stein in turn are in a much better position to comment on the site than people like bigal and seagul..... Who in turn are better positioned to comment on the site than these random plonkers who play 5 tournys and think it's rigged, like discopig/AJW (mickey mouse man) etc...... So yeh the way I respond to area51 posts depends on who it is I am responding to, not what they are saying. Takes 45 seconds to sharkscope someone and conclude instantly wether they're a total donk talking total rubbish, or someone who might deserve the time of day. Anyway, I'm back writing essays. Good times. lol
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Back from the wilderness :o)
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  • 5toneFace5toneFace
    edited June 2011
    What do sky gain from fixing STT and MTT hands? They still get the same rake. And if anything they will lose money from people knowing/believing its fixed, by them not playing anymore. 

    And cash game rake is capped, so they gain nothing more from a pot over £x

    If someone could prove that their RNG was fixed, they could get sued for a lot of money, so why would they want to risk that?

    Can I ask if you ever play live? I've played more than my fair share of hands live and i've seen it all. Only on the "internet" tho ;-) Infact the last tourny I played, I lost KK to AA after 6 hands. Such a fix

    As Dohhhhh said, the majority of people who belive online poker is rigged are losing players. Instead of looking for an excuse on why you cant win, why dont you just learn how to win?
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    FULL TILT R.I.P.
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  • MohicanMohican
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : I think you'll find I havent voiced an opinion on this subject matter for a long time, for the reasons you quote. I opted in on this occassion for the reasons I mentioned.  Just plain tired of people aiming scorn and derision at those who ask questions.  I agree with you fully that if you believe there is something amiss you shouldnt play.  What I dont agree with is the way people who have bad experiences are treated as a rule.
    Posted by AMYBR
    You two put forward a very reasoned arguement forward and I respect your right to that opinion. My problem is with the posting of bad beats as proof of a site being rigged. I have seen all the one outers,AA vs AA where one loses to the others flush,gutshots getting there,runner runners to know that it's just poker and 2% shots do get there. Yes it hurts, yes I do swear loudly and yes I do sometimes write things to express my thoughts about their play in the chatbox.Sometimes youjust  have to except the fact you can play a hand perfectly and still lose.Some people can't embrace that fact and look elsewhere for something to blame. It's just too easy to blame it being rigged without looking at why they lost the hand.











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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : You two put forward a very reasoned arguement forward and I respect your right to that opinion. My problem is with the posting of bad beats as proof of a site being rigged. I have seen all the one outers,AA vs AA where one loses to the others flush,gutshots getting there,runner runners to know that it's just poker and 2% shots do get there. Yes it hurts, yes I do swear loudly and yes I do sometimes write things to express my thoughts about their play in the chatbox.Sometimes youjust  have to except the fact you can play a hand perfectly and still lose.Some people can't embrace that fact and look elsewhere for something to blame. It's just too easy to blame it being rigged without looking at why they lost the hand.
    Posted by Mohican

    I understand all that but this is area 51 - it's what it's for. Would you go to a kennels and complain it's full of dogs?


    You're missing the whole point of this - get in the groove and appreciate the humour of the place - lighten up.  :o)

    Better still join Team51 - You know it makes sense!
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  • MohicanMohican
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : I understand all that but this is area 51 - it's what it's for. Would you go to a kennels and complain it's full of dogs? You're missing the whole point of this - get in the groove and appreciate the humour of the place - lighten up.  :o) Better still join Team51 - You know it makes sense!
    Posted by elsadog
    I appreciate this is Area 51 but a lot of these post are originally put in the general poker section, so you have to believe that they honestly believe it's rigged for no other reason that they got a bad beat.I was also replying to posts that had gotten all grown up for a change in area 51, hence my serious reply. Next time I'll filter out all serious threads and join in with the rest of childish banter and fart jokes!!!!!lol
     And for the record, it's HitSquad or death.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    touchy
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  • MohicanMohican
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    touchy
    Posted by elsadog
    Another misintepretation of my posts. Obviously need to put some LOLS and smiley faces in my post.
    I'm in the HitSquad, so your offer to join team 51 is politley refused as I can't afford the Tinfoil costs.

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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : Have a word with Davey - he started it all off again.
    Posted by elsadog
    lol,im keeping me 'ed down....

    for the record here is my view(and it will never be spoken of again!).

    imo online poker is not rigged/fixed for anyone to win.

    it does not give new players a helping hand to keep them hooked.

    you do not start losing because you withdraw.

    hands are not generated to get rake/finish tournies as quick as possible.

    i know a few of the more intelligent posters have a problem with the rng
    i dont think there is a problem..........but i would'nt argue with anyone who thinks there is.

    most people posting the "fixed" threads are losing players who cant take a bad beat(or ten) i can post 50 such bad beats from this and other site,and if i look through i could most probably post 50 suckouts in my favour.

    daft as it sounds i understand the fury of losing and trying to blame something/someone else.......when i had a really long downswing in the early days(playing well but getting two outered etc) and i mean everytime for weeks,i got the idea that my computer had been hacked and the yanks on pokerstars could all see my hole cards! daft i know but thats what i thought at the time....

    gl,dave
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : lol,im keeping me 'ed down.... for the record here is my view(and it will never be spoken of again!). imo online poker is not rigged/fixed for anyone to win. it does not give new players a helping hand to keep them hooked. you do start losing because you withdraw. hands are not generated to get rake/finish tournies as quick as possible. i know a few of the more intelligent posters have a problem with the rng i dont think there is a problem..........but i would'nt argue with anyone who thinks there is. most people posting the "fixed" threads are losing players who cant take a bad beat(or ten) i can post 50 such bad beats from this and other site,and if i look through i could most probably post 50 suckouts in my favour. daft as it sounds i understand the fury of losing and trying to blame something/someone else.......when i had a really long downswing in the early days(playing well but getting two outered etc) and i mean everytime for weeks,i got the idea that my computer had been hacked and the yanks on pokerstars could all see my hole cards! daft i know but thats what i thought at the time.... gl,dave
    Posted by DAVEYZZ


    Opinions of whether it is rigged/fixed/adjusted or not are just that - opinions. Same for both sides and the truth is it will probably never be proven one way or the other. In the light of what has happened today with FT it's best to keep an open mind.

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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : lol,im keeping me 'ed down.... for the record here is my view(and it will never be spoken of again!). imo online poker is not rigged/fixed for anyone to win. it does not give new players a helping hand to keep them hooked. you do start losing because you withdraw. hands are not generated to get rake/finish tournies as quick as possible. i know a few of the more intelligent posters have a problem with the rng i dont think there is a problem..........but i would'nt argue with anyone who thinks there is. most people posting the "fixed" threads are losing players who cant take a bad beat(or ten) i can post 50 such bad beats from this and other site,and if i look through i could most probably post 50 suckouts in my favour. daft as it sounds i understand the fury of losing and trying to blame something/someone else.......when i had a really long downswing in the early days(playing well but getting two outered etc) and i mean everytime for weeks,i got the idea that my computer had been hacked and the yanks on pokerstars could all see my hole cards! daft i know but thats what i thought at the time.... gl,dave
    Posted by DAVEYZZ

    Knew it! That would explain my 6 month downswing since I withdrew £1.5K on here.

    Thanks for your help Daveyzz and I am glad you have proven without doubt one of the great poker mysteries.

    All in Area51 bow to you Sir. I am not hanging round here now, off to F/T I go.......
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  • pod1pod1
    edited June 2011
    lmao,alan. its true i tell yeah!!
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    In Response to Re: yes or no question..... : Knew it ! That would explain my 6 month downswing since I withdrew £1.5K on here. Thanks for your help Daveyzz and I am glad you have proven without doubt one of the great poker mysteries. All in Area51 bow to you Sir. I am not hanging round here now, off to F/T I go.......
    Posted by MAXALLY
    lol....oops.fmp(make note to double read before submitting)
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  • bigal36903bigal36903
    edited June 2011
    please tell me if the rng is not fixed to help bad play why does this happen all the time...

    Hand History #387371246 (22:50 30/06/2011)

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    bigal36903 Small blind  25.00 25.00 1870.00
    Parothead Big blind  50.00 75.00 2560.00
     Your hole cards
    • Q
    • A
    		   
    MrRam Raise  100.00 175.00 412.50
    hunskelper Fold     
    bigduckgc Raise  150.00 325.00 2952.50
    Justo3000 Fold     
    bigal36903 Call  125.00 450.00 1745.00
    Parothead Fold     
    MrRam All-in  412.50 862.50 0.00
    bigduckgc Call  362.50 1225.00 2590.00
    bigal36903 Call  362.50 1587.50 1382.50
    Flop
      
    • 5
    • Q
    • 8
    		   
    bigal36903 All-in  1382.50 2970.00 0.00
    bigduckgc Fold     
    bigal36903 Unmatched bet  1382.50 1587.50 1382.50
    bigal36903 Show
    • Q
    • A
    		   
    MrRam Show
    • 10
    • J
    		   
    Turn
      
    • K
    		   
    River
      
    • A
    		   
    MrRam Win Straight to the Ace 1587.50
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: yes or no question.....:
    this happens too much... another bad beat... comes again... and then the same playa wind with Q3 all in aswell...cos they were low... so i thought fcuk it, lets go all in with 95 and guess what, bingo poker wins
    Posted by bigal36903
    How are you getting on in general Big Al? you seem to do ok despite running bad?

    Still churning away at the dyms?
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  • bigal36903bigal36903
    edited June 2011
    actually, not running good,   good for soo far in tounry, and the stt  losing to bad callers getting lucky on river
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