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Why Online Poker Is Rigged

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  • djblacke04djblacke04
    edited November 2011

    its funny how the best players on here can only achieve 5% roi, even though the rake is 10%...



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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged : We all played the SPT at Dusk til Dawn.....how many terrible one outers and bad beats can you name from the whole tournement...?  300 players....it should be the same as any other tournamnet yep? well the only 1 i know was poor old diggerman who had 77 on flop of 744, and all the money went in opponent had 44 didnt see any of the usual runner runner,or even 4 way pots where everyone had some sort of draw.. u know the top pair v straight draw v flush draw  with super action cards on the turn.... i just lost 2 dyms on the bubble to 1 outers... and ive lost track of how many times Flush Draws ( QQ v 7c7 flop Q c 2c 6 c money goes in and 8c on turn) and Straight draws (this is biggest joke of all IMO) just get there.....is way beyond normal and into the FANTASY.. Lets just ask one question... If we were trying to make a poker site that gave action cards all the time do you think it there could be any more action flops than on here? live games go like this.. seat 1 raise to 3x... seat 2 fold seat 3 fold seat 4 fold seat 5 fold BB ums and aaahs then folds... Sky poker games go like this seat 1 raises seat2 calls seat 3 calls seat 4 folds seat 5 calls seat 6 shoves with AA seat 1 calls with JhKh suited seat 2 calls with 99 seat 3 calls with 10 10 flop comes 9h 10h Ah turn is 2 river is 8 :)
    Posted by djblacke04
    or maybe people were to embarrassed to shout "fix!" at a live game? :)

    mind you every time i went to the bar there was someone telling their bad beat story("you never guess what he called me with")


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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    fact. all sites have way too many action hands...   it speeds the games up... more players going out of tournys more rake when they enter to next one.. not rigged to any one idivdual....    good and bad...  plenty of action hands for a reason, but EVERY ONLINE SITE does this...
    Posted by bigal36903
    these point are defo not facts....and thats a fact
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    why doesnt someone keep a log over say a month period and work out the percentages then. Surely this will give some indication. i know im the DYMs i have been playing in the past 2 weeks im having the best hands pre flop on the bubble and its going in and im consistently getting beat and the sessions ending up even stevens or slightly down yet i should be winning a lot of the hands if all went smoothly and to the percentage ratio, just seems like people suck out on me more than i suck out on them but that can only happen if i keep getting it in with the best hands :)
    Posted by bahh
    If your were to read many of the detailed threads concerning RNG's and how samples are tested (or not tested), it becomes evident that this wouldnt provide any kind of compehensive answer.

    Mainly as looking for statistics over large (larger than 1month) samples only shows a norraw cross section of how a RNG is functioning.

    I also believe some people can sometimes jast run perma bad/good. 

    All depends on a persons perception of LUCK.  Who is to say it isnt a quantifiable entity?
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged : If your were to read many of the detailed threads concerning RNG's and how samples are tested (or not tested), it becomes evident that this wouldnt provide any kind of compehensive answer. Mainly as looking for statistics over large (larger than 1month) samples only shows a norraw cross section of how a RNG is functioning. I also believe some people can sometimes jast run perma bad/good.  All depends on a persons perception of LUCK.  Who is to say it isnt a quantifiable entity?
    Posted by AMYBR
    i absolutely agree with this.....a player can be lucky and win loads of tournys and any bad luck he gets over the next few years will never "even its self out" because he got tons of luck from the start....

    alternately a "good" player may never win a decent amount due to always getting unlucky.........dave
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  • JingleMaJingleMa
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged : We all played the SPT at Dusk til Dawn.....how many terrible one outers and bad beats can you name from the whole tournement...?  1. 300 players....it should be the same as any other tournamnet yep? well the only 1 i know was poor old diggerman who had 77 on flop of 744, and all the money went in opponent had 44 didnt see any of the usual runner runner,or even 4 way pots where everyone had some sort of draw.. u know the top pair v straight draw v flush draw  with super action cards on the turn.... i just lost 2 dyms on the bubble to 1 outers... and ive lost track of how many times Flush Draws ( QQ v 7c7 flop Q c 2c 6 c money goes in and 8c on turn) and Straight draws (this is biggest joke of all IMO) just get there.....is way beyond normal and into the FANTASY.. Lets just ask one question... If we were trying to make a poker site that gave action cards all the time do you think it there could be any more action flops than on here? 2. live games go like this.. seat 1 raise to 3x... seat 2 fold seat 3 fold seat 4 fold seat 5 fold BB ums and aaahs then folds... Sky poker games go like this seat 1 raises seat2 calls seat 3 calls seat 4 folds seat 5 calls seat 6 shoves with AA seat 1 calls with JhKh suited seat 2 calls with 99 seat 3 calls with 10 10 flop comes 9h 10h Ah turn is 2 river is 8 :)
    Posted by djblacke04

    1. No, it won't be. An online tournie with 300 runners and same blind levels as a live equivalent will have a lot more hands dealt.

    2. You've answered your own question. The average player online will play many more hands than a live equivalent (ie will not fold to a raise). So add this to the fact that many more hands are dealt with many more players going to the flop, what do you think will happen? That's right, the "fantasy" hands you talk about. This is why so many live players can't get there heads around the massive varience involved online.

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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged : i absolutely agree with this.....a player can be lucky and win loads of tournys and any bad luck he gets over the next few years will never "even its self out" because he got tons of luck from the start.... alternately a "good" player may never win a decent amount due to always getting unlucky.........dave
    Posted by DAVEYZZ
    Massive +1 to this , sooooooooooo true , its a pity that a certain thread i remember of had SHANXTA say that if we cant 'beat' bad players then who can we 'beat' , cos your statament at the end here regarding good players can simply get unlucky very much nullifies what shanxta stated.
    I hope he reads this post by you.
    very good post dave xxx
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  • 1dirtydog1dirtydog
    edited November 2011
    why is there a flush /straight/or full house or even tripps every other hand ?  rake is one reason and another is how these sky grinders mass up huge cash for points sky love it . its like getting someone to work for you and take most the money .torneys are a joke ive won the open with some luck but how can the same names keep doing well in these mass all  in torneys its not skill ,its not luck its RIGGED.  
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  • 1dirtydog1dirtydog
    edited November 2011
    if lolufold is so good why dont he play in many torneys and why dont he play wereontv and co when there on 10 heads up tables playing no won ,chicken  
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  • baggsbaggs
    edited November 2011
    I think the randomness is up for debate but in my opinion the chances of it being rigged are just impossibly small. In this day and age it just couldnt be possible to keep that kind of secret unless only one person knew when they set the site up. And it thats the case how is a winning player selected when he joins the site? And why is it the winning players selected always seem to be the better players? It would be fairly easy to detect a site which randomly selected new players as "winners", anyone half decent would be able to tell when playing against theml. How many times has anyone played a newbie, thought "this guy seems bad" gone to sharkscope and found out they are a massive winner? I cant recall many times
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    if lolufold is so good why dont he play in many torneys and why dont he play wereontv and co when there on 10 heads up tables playing no won ,chicken  
    Posted by 1dirtydog
    LLLOLLZZz.

    Winner of biggest "I have no clue at all what I'm taking about" post.
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  • rayzorrayzor
    edited November 2011
    The people who argue that online poker is honest seem to fall into three main categories.
     
    1. Gullible/naive.
    These types of people have been exploited in scams since time began. They really are innocent enough to accept online poker companies' claims at face value.
     
    2. The 'Committed Bunch'.
    These people have been playing online poker for years. They have invested a significant amount of time and money. They have probably lost quite a bit of this money overall, but have picked up a few nice wins along the way. They don't want to admit they are overall losers and they don't want to admit being taken in by manipulated software. They have shown a commitment to online poker and can't accept the fact they have been wrong.
     
    3. Online poker employees.
    These people sign up to poker forums without declaring who they are. They pose as ordinary players and slam anyone who criticises online poker while claiming to be big overall winners themselves. Their job is to stop 'mug punters' quitting the game.
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  • drumahai05drumahai05
    edited November 2011
    hi rayzor while i agree with some things you say in particular no1 dead right, no2 dead right again, i think this one could apply to most online players. I disagree with your last one in regards this site,i think the point you are missing is if there is no regulation then a site can within reason do what they want.ie rank groups of players, (for business reasons)into win rates.that does not mean they win, it just gives them the opportunity to win more hands.you can alter that by the way you bet so it is not perfect.i like to call it dodging the mines. what im trying to say is i don't think its fixed in any legal sense, to be fixed there would need to be regulations in place. as there are not. you cant say a site is fixed.im sure if you play within these parameters you will cash more often and enjoy the game. one day soon we will see regulation with accountability and the game will change.
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  • walesboywalesboy
    edited November 2011
    In Response to People Who Argue Online Poker Is Honest...:
    The people who argue that online poker is honest seem to fall into three main categories.   1. Gullible/naive. These types of people have been exploited in scams since time began. They really are innocent enough to accept online poker companies' claims at face value.   2. The 'Committed Bunch'. These people have been playing online poker for years. They have invested a significant amount of time and money. They have probably lost quite a bit of this money overall, but have picked up a few nice wins along the way. They don't want to admit they are overall losers and they don't want to admit being taken in by manipulated software. They have shown a commitment to online poker and can't accept the fact they have been wrong.   3. Online poker employees. These people sign up to poker forums without declaring who they are. They pose as ordinary players and slam anyone who criticises online poker while claiming to be big overall winners themselves. Their job is to stop 'mug punters' quitting the game.
    Posted by rayzor
    Just LOL!
    Wrote replying to all 3 above, but just couldn't be bothered in end.
    Agree to disagree
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited November 2011
    In Response to People Who Argue Online Poker Is Honest...:
    The people who argue that online poker is honest seem to fall into three main categories.   1. Gullible/naive. These types of people have been exploited in scams since time began. They really are innocent enough to accept online poker companies' claims at face value.   2. The 'Committed Bunch'. These people have been playing online poker for years. They have invested a significant amount of time and money. They have probably lost quite a bit of this money overall, but have picked up a few nice wins along the way. They don't want to admit they are overall losers and they don't want to admit being taken in by manipulated software. They have shown a commitment to online poker and can't accept the fact they have been wrong.   3. Online poker employees. These people sign up to poker forums without declaring who they are. They pose as ordinary players and slam anyone who criticises online poker while claiming to be big overall winners themselves. Their job is to stop 'mug punters' quitting the game.
    Posted by rayzor
    wow! you are seriously paranoid and really should stop playing altogether.

    you conveniently forgot the category of winning players who make a good living from online poker.
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  • MohicanMohican
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    if lolufold is so good why dont he play in many torneys and why dont he play wereontv and co when there on 10 heads up tables playing no won ,chicken  
    Posted by 1dirtydog
    probably cos he was doing this-
    08-Jan-2011   $ 10,000 No Limit Hold'em - Main Event
    PokerStars Caribbean Adventure, Paradise Island     		64th $ 38,000  
    05-Jul-2010   $ 10,000 World Championship - No Limit Hold'em
    41st World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2010, Las Vegas     		21st $ 317,161  
    09-Jun-2008 $ 500 No Limit Hold'em
    Deep Stack Extravaganza III, Las Vegas     		26th $ 685  
    04-Jun-2008   $ 2,000 No Limit Hold'em
    39th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2008, Las Vegas     		141st $ 3,477  
    06-Jul-2007   $ 10,000 World Championship No Limit Hold'em
    38th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2007, Las Vegas     		441st $ 29,883  
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  • 1dirtydog1dirtydog
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged : probably cos he was doing this- 08-Jan-2011   $ 10,000 No Limit Hold'em - Main Event PokerStars Caribbean Adventure, Paradise Island 64th $ 38,000   05-Jul-2010   $ 10,000 World Championship - No Limit Hold'em 41st World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2010, Las Vegas 21st $ 317,161   09-Jun-2008 $ 500 No Limit Hold'em Deep Stack Extravaganza III, Las Vegas 26th $ 685   04-Jun-2008   $ 2,000 No Limit Hold'em 39th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2008, Las Vegas 141st $ 3,477   06-Jul-2007   $ 10,000 World Championship No Limit Hold'em 38th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2007, Las Vegas 441st $ 29,883  
    Posted by Mohican
     i ment on sky but 6 torneys in 4 1/2 years good going
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited November 2011
    LOOOLLLZZZz glad somebody else finally spotted this :p
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  • pod1pod1
    edited November 2011
    probably because hes making more money playing cash than all those tourny wins (apart from wsop me) . sit and watch him play and you will see why!! either that or just keeping posting in area 51. regarding were ontv, why would you wont to play another good player and give sky all the rake. not rocket science my friend
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited November 2011
    basically to sum it up in a few words if u win on this site its great its the best site ever but when u lose its the worst and u post stupid stuff up like this take it u are losing 
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  • pod1pod1
    edited November 2011
    bit like having a girlfriend/wife. if your getting everything you want from her shes the best in the world. if shes busting ya ba lls and sleeping with your best mate then shes a .......
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged :  i ment on sky but 6 torneys in 4 1/2 years good going
    Posted by 1dirtydog
    lol i know its terrible isnt it?

    only 1/2 million in tourny winnings over 4 years...........
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  • cgoldiecgoldie
    edited March 2012
    U'm not even going to bother explaining the mechanics behind how this works as your clearly to much of a moron to understand.

    So let's just crush your argument simply and easily in a way that even you can understand.

    1. You think online poker is "rigged" therefore you are without any doubt losing money.
    2. You are still here and continuing to post and play over 2 years later.

    Those simple facts completly go against your argument that losing players will simply leave when they are losing. Not only do they not leave when they lose, they stay when they think the game is rigged and cheating them out of money like you do.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited March 2012
    random 3 months Bumps ftw :P
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  • edge215edge215
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    If a poker site had a completely random deal, the good players over time would take money from the bad players. The bad players would become disillusioned and stop playing at that site. The good players would only have themselves to play against - life would become a lot harder. They would leave the site to play where the bad players play. Result? End of that particular poker site. This rule of online poker holds good for Sky as much as any other site. If you allow good players to take on average or bad players on an even basis, only the good players will win and the others will stop playing - which would be a disaster for any business. Therefore you 'tweak' the deal to even out the 'luck' between good and bad players. Your player base stays roughly the same, generating the rake and tournament fees your business needs to make profits. The only people able to prove this is happening are the software programmers and senior management within an online poker company. Until some of these people have the courage to break cover and reveal what is really behind the deal, the rigging (and the dishonest shilling in poker forums) will carry on.
    Posted by rayzor
    not rigged....different....forget all u think you know about poker...and play the site...whereas table poker mightn't neccessarily translate to online poker.........online poker is certainly translating to the big tourneys...the number of online players i see coming through is hugh... and some of the old(not age ways..game ways) table pros dont know how to cope with their style of play....winners gettin younger and younger....and lots honing their game online...its not these new players who need to change...it's up to the pro's we all know and love to adapt their game to stop themselves from being buried in the landslide of online players..A new  and stronger species of pokerbots have arrived......these players have no fear...in some cases you could have the better hand 75 times out of a hundred and still get beat ...thats why online poker is definitely not rigged.....players aren't adapting to sites and online play.....I think hugh corporations run a far greater risk if being caught for cheating millions...that would be the end of an empire....course...they mite be buggin' your phone.........yours a small stakes believer...whos game has went from atrocious with much loses...to 80% cashing in tourneys....long way to go to get my money back....but loving my wee runs in tourneys..............
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  • DazlerDazler
    edited March 2012
    totaly randon hands or action cos im in the wrong seat at the wrong time?, funny how this sort of thing happens not as rarely as you would think it should be but 6-7 games in a row or more. You know its coming even before it does. Funny how a downswing or run of bad luck always goes in big clumps and is never spread out equaly or dosnt feel that way. Im a winning player on this site so you could argue that in that case i shouldnt think something is up with the r.n.g! or what ever other reasons that feel funny!.

    You get gut feelings in poker and make calls on them because of it. And im sure there are a lot of gut feelings about the way the cards come out with online poker. There are many reasons that it could be fixed in someones favour or an outcome to get you out of the game quick, i would say i play a lot of games on this site infact i play daily, but have never made a life changing sum of money but i am a prime candidate for the company doing very well out of rake! for the reason i continualy play but never go bust and so im good traffic for the site to keep going.

    Im not saying it is fixed in anyway but im certainly open minded to it and dont trust digital form of poker as it dosnt take much to change a programme slightly. Just look at fruit machines they have a programme set for a certain percentage to pay out and there are proffesionals who have worked out certain systems in pubs because they figure out how the systems works and players on them have been banned from pubs cos they empty the machines, but the vast number of players on them just try there luck and lose, i know a programmer for these fruit machines and he has openly admited that there is a system in place so they make money but also let there be payouts. The beauty of online poker is its very hard to prove and and can easliy be covered up. For those that say about why a disgruntled employee hasnt come forward why would they dont you think they would be paid a nice amount of money if they were to leave to keep quiet. And they would also be an accesory to a site being fixed so if they come out they would be done for being a part of it if they spoke out. Players generaly have a routine on the way they bet and play and these habbits can easily be recorded.

    As the saying goes there is no smoke without fire and for such a large number of people that feel something is just not right, should'nt people question rather than just except its all ok? I would think that an overal winning player would say theres nothing wrong and of coarse they would there winning and the losing player will always say there is something wrong and of coarse they would there losing.

    The fact is we all still play online poker even when we think it dosnt feel right at times and thats were we all make the mistake. If we think something is not right we shouldnt play them and soon the companys would realise that its not making them money and would stop it. But its like smoking we know its wrong and are told how bad it is for you but continue to smoke cos its an addiction. 
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited March 2012
    Ahhhhhhhhh the joys of seeing a winning player in the process of being.........................................

    DOOMSWITCHED!! LOL

    Speak to you in a few months when your pulling your hair out cursing poker and wondering where it all went wrong :p

    (I agree with what you say for most part though) EDIT
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  • DazlerDazler
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Why Online Poker Is Rigged:
    Ahhhhhhhhh the joys of seeing a winning player in the process of being......................................... DOOMSWITCHED!! LOL Speak to you in a few months when your pulling your hair out cursing poker and wondering where it all went wrong :p
    Posted by AMYBR
    LOL ive pulled my hair out too many times to remember and now need a new hair transplant as the wigs arnt looking that great. As for the Doomswitch mine is more of a Doom Dimmer Switch that adjusts lighting accordingly to my mood :)
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited March 2012
    OK Rayzor, how do you explain Richard Orford?
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited March 2012
    Rakeback?
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