trying 2 cash @ nl4

devonfish5

taking a break from dym,s

back playing 2 tables at nl4.
just seeing where my cash game level is at the moment....

promising start,
played 3 sessions,
won £5.30
won £0.25
won £6.69

cash won £12.24
main b/rol £384.81

still would like to carry on with playing dym,s,
but if i can continue grinding a small profit
on cash tables,i will.
just going to see how the mood takes me
and go from there.

don,t think i will post every session
as i,m sure i,ll only bore the pants off you all..
maybe once a week or so....lol

my only target is to try and reach £500
and take it from there.

that,s all 4 now.

best wishes,
and run well.

devon

Dudeskin8

It's always nice to have a change and you've certainly proved yourself on the DYM's so can easily go back later on.

Good luck on the cash though mate, be glad to have you off the £3.30 DYM's for a bit lol.

devonfish5

thanks carl,
think u r  dead right about nice to have a change,
think i just need to see where my cash game is,
as already said,
up untill now always found it a real struggle
to consistantly cash....
it,s always something like;win lose lose,
lose win lose.
always seems like i,m swimming against the tide,
just fighting those odds...all the time!

still,made a good positive start,
so in a good mind-set atm

good luck to all of you
who i,m sure just like me,
all have your own poker ambitions for  2012.

keep you posted....

devon

rancid

Play like you do in DYM, just widen you range a little and you will be fine

 

Treat it like your all in hands in a DYM can get you max £2.70

NL4 you get £4

 

 

Ez money for you at 6+ tables

devonfish5

thank you rancid,

deffo right about widening hand selection
that is an area i,m still getting to grips with.

still,quite early days.
thing i find though rancid is;
the more tables that i play
just seems to be counter productive,
which is crazy i know,
as it should be the other way around,
up untill now anyway.

any thoughts?
greatly appreciated

devon

AcidMan27

I was just going to post suggesting you try to play more than two tables at once, but if you struggle with more than two it's probably not a good idea.

The only way to get used to playing more tables is to just try one more table at a time.

You always had a solid game when i've played you so you should do ok.

devonfish5

thanks AcidMan,
no problem multi tabeling,have played as many as 12 b4.

which is great 4 c4p
just can,t seem 2 win,
as i said up untill now,anyway

could be that i may have been playing a bit to tight
that,s all i can think of?
or maybe not aggressive enough when holding
and not getting paid off .
not 2 sure.

still,
i,ll keep on trying

devon

Sky_Poker

Hi Guys

Interesting thread. Just to let you know, it was one of the threads that made us post this thread for discussion.

Be interested to get your thoughts.

Thanks
Sky Poker

rancid

Devon

play 6 tables NL4, play like a DYM early levels and you will be ok

play premiums only

maybe mix in some other hands but don't go crazy
Keep your decisions simple by playing ABC tight Aggro

EvilPingu

As Rancid said, play like early in a DYM, only exception would be to try to see flops as cheaply as you can with small pairs, look to set mine and get paid

rancid

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

As Rancid said, play like early in a DYM, only exception would be to try to see flops as cheaply as you can with small pairs, look to set mine and get paid
Posted by EvilPingu

ofc play your implied hands, more so than DYM's

devonfish5

thanks guys,
i really do appreciate any/all comments.

i have tried playing tight on up to as many as 10/12 tables
in the past.with little success
only managed 2 break even with my play,
but made money as i said on c4p.
i realise that this is not optimum poker,
hence the reason i,ve dropped to 2 tables,
in an attempt to hopefully sort out the problems
in my game.
should i be raising more pre-flop to try and get rid of the weaker players holdings,
and therefore only having 1/2 opponents,
or do i just limp in as cheaply as poss and see flop,
and go from there?
i do ralise that as we all are different,
we will all play slightly differently
but as said not had great success playing the tight way.

ps.
what do u guys think regarding table selection?

do u just load up and not worry 2 much who,s on them,
or do u look ( as i have just  been trying out),
for the smaller stacks and try to pick on them?



also,do u try and avoid the regs or do u not worry about them?

thanks again,

devon

Lambert180

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

thanks guys, i really do appreciate any/all comments. i have tried playing tight on up to as many as 10/12 tables in the past.with little success only managed 2 break even with my play, but made money as i said on c4p. i realise that this is not optimum poker, hence the reason i,ve dropped to 2 tables, in an attempt to hopefully sort out the problems in my game. should i be raising more pre-flop to try and get rid of the weaker players holdings, and therefore only having 1/2 opponents, or do i just limp in as cheaply as poss and see flop, and go from there? i do ralise that as we all are different, we will all play slightly differently but as said not had great success playing the tight way. thanks again devon
Posted by devonfish5

You should be raising more pre-flop, but it should be for value, not to get rid of weaker holdings. You're gonna repeatedly get called by weak holdings, but if you keep playing 99+ AJ+ then you can be happy to play against weak holdings all day long. I'd say at 2p/4p your standard raise should be at least 20p (more with AA/KK/QQ) and 4p more for every limper.

As Dohhhh said in his guide, the key to this level is betting for value.

devonfish5

thank you Lambert,

read and understood
cheers buddy

devon

ps,
i have been raising 3x ie;  12p
is this not better than 20p?

as, if u lose more hands than u win,
which i am assuming over time u do?
therefore only losing 12p  each time rather than 20p

then start 2 build post-flop?

wenelinho

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

thank you Lambert, read and understood cheers buddy devon ps, i have been raising 3x ie;  12p is this not better than 20p? as, if u lose more hands than u win, which i am assuming over time u do? therefore only losing 12p  each time rather than 20p then start 2 build post-flop?
Posted by devonfish5

Hi devon,

so you made the cash thread good work   

I agree with the larger raise 16 or 20 p is what i normally go for sometimes i chuck in a couple of 12p's depends what i want to achieve.  I find that alot of the players at the nl4 level enjoy a good limp with a stupid wide range 8 4 off 6 J "It was suited" haha, anyway my point is with just a 3X raise these same players dont give it the respect it deserves and just see 12p ( oh i can afford that).  not 12 p thats a 3X raise if that makes sense.

Also i find this happens alot your on the dealer and you get one or two limpers maybe even 3 and your holding A Q  with just a 12 p raise everyone at the table is putting the 8p in and were now in a 6 way pot. What i do here is put a BB ON my 3X standard for every limper + the BB so a 24p bet pre flop every1 either folds or you cut the field down and then take it from here. 

This way you can at least try to give any callers a range (at this level it could be anything) but we can try cant we?

Also i like to take notes on players im sure that this is something you are already doing but most players are here everyday, find the weak calling stations or players that cant put down 2nd pair quids in my friend haha.

well good luck will prob see you at the tables of till tuesday time to grind!

chris 

Dudeskin8

I'd say defo 5x UTG, UTG+1..

CO and Btn I probably make it 4x but this is due to playing weaker hands in later position and knowing most times I'll have position and I can cbet less when I miss. 

Also don't worry about giving off betting tells, as in I bet big I have big hand, I doubt most players at NL4 can even spell their own name let alone notice you making it 24p instead of 16p etc.

Biggest advice would be to search all your biggest losing hands and if any you're unsure over post them up, not badbeats though like 'I got my KK in pre and got donked off by A3 how do i play my hand better', just tricky spots where you were unsure, also hide results if possible and leave it where there is a decision, showing whole hand serves no purpose most times. 

Spikelad

devon i know exactly what you are going through at nl4,i have just started out playing cash at this level and it can be frustrating.However it is the best level to start out playing cash as any mistakes we make are not so costly.

Good luck at the tables devon.

NoseyBonk

Going by a lot of posts I've read on here I reckon it's best to skip the £0.02/£0.04 tables and head straight to the £200/£400 tables. Better players 'n' all that.

wenelinho

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

Going by a lot of posts I've read on here I reckon it's best to skip the £0.02/£0.04 tables and head straight to the £200/£400 tables. Better players 'n' all that.
Posted by NoseyBonk

Great idea hahah errrmmmmmmm would you like to roll me for it ?

devonfish5

thank you all guys,

really appreciated.

devon

Lambert180

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

thank you Lambert, read and understood cheers buddy devon ps, i have been raising 3x ie;  12p is this not better than 20p? as, if u lose more hands than u win, which i am assuming over time u do? therefore only losing 12p  each time rather than 20p then start 2 build post-flop?
Posted by devonfish5

No because you're hand selection is gonna mean that when you do decide to play a hand, you're gonna more often than not be a favourite to win the hand. That's what I mean about betting for value... building pots with things like 78s aint great because you're relying on flopping big which won't happen very often, and you'll be in a position where you can't bet for value and you certainly can't bluff at this level (this does not include c-bets), so you are throwing money away.

Stick to a tight opening range, 99 and up, AJoff and up, ATsuited and up, this way when you come into a hand, you're more often than not ahead. It's fine to just make it 12p with say pocket pairs 88 or lower, but apart from that, I'd stick to 20p+

devonfish5

thank you Lambert,
brilliant advise.
it,s great when you see something written down
and then it all makes perfect sense.
just goes to show me how much more i really
do have to learn,as i did think my way was better.
will definately try raising bigger nxt session
and see how things go.

thanks again buddy,

devon
.

rancid

1st set of hands
raise prem  20p+ 1 bb per limper from whatever position
bet for value, get it all in pre flop if you can
AA/KK/AK/QQ

2nd set of hands
raise the same for next set of hands but play in position, oop going to be difficult
JJ/AQ/AJ/A10/1010/99

3rd set of hands
next set of implied hands, get in cheap and have the correct implied odds -and get paid when you hit massive
Looking for 2 pair+ hands and draws on flop, nothing else

suited aces, broadway cards, sc's and low-mid prs

Good luck

devonfish5

thanks rancid,

all in pre with qq?
are we happy with poss risking £4 with that?
and ak also?
devon

Lambert180

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

thanks rancid, all in pre with qq? are we happy with poss risking £4 with that? and ak also? devon
Posted by devonfish5

Definitely!!

I mean in general I can't see much wrong with wanting to get QQ all in pre flop unless you have very good reads but especially against 90% of the people at this level, you're gonna get called by so many hands your miles ahead of. Likewise with AK, it's amazing the number of times I've put people all in pre and been called by things like K9 lol.

pilgrim07

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

I'd say defo 5x UTG, UTG+1.. CO and Btn I probably make it 4x but this is due to playing weaker hands in later position and knowing most times I'll have position and I can cbet less when I miss.  Also don't worry about giving off betting tells, as in I bet big I have big hand, I doubt most players at NL4 can even spell their own name let alone notice you making it 24p instead of 16p etc. Biggest advice would be to search all your biggest losing hands and if any you're unsure over post them up, not badbeats though like 'I got my KK in pre and got donked off by A3 how do i play my hand better', just tricky spots where you were unsure, also hide results if possible and leave it where there is a decision, showing whole hand serves no purpose most times. 
Posted by Dudeskin8

Quite an insulting post Dudeskin Most of us nl4 fish are better than you imply, come and join us sometime and see. Oh,and bring some cash with you..... 

Lambert180

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4 : Quite an insulting post Dudeskin Most of us nl4 fish are better than you imply, come and join us sometime and see. Oh,and bring some cash with you..... 
Posted by pilgrim07

Pilgrim, the fact that you've even replied to this and are offended means you are probably already ahead of 90% of the field at 4NL. I'm sure he doesn't mean it to everyone at that level but 90% of people at that level are genuinely like that, hence why it's easy money.

Dude has spent many an hour at 4NL and beat it, hence his move up to 8NL and 10NL

pilgrim07

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4 : Pilgrim, the fact that you've even replied to this and are offended means you are probably already ahead of 90% of the field at 4NL. I'm sure he doesn't mean it to everyone at that level but 90% of people at that level are genuinely like that, hence why it's easy money. Dude has spent many an hour at 4NL and beat it, hence his move up to 8NL and 10NL
Posted by Lambert180

Tongue in cheek post, m8. Not offended in the slightest.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4 : Tongue in cheek post, m8. Not offended in the slightest.
Posted by pilgrim07

Lol ok, fair enough, I always struggle to pick up on people's tone when it's just in text (not verbal)

devonfish5

thanks lambert,
still trying to get my head around all these new concepts 2 me.
as i am undoubtedly a "bit of a nit",
.
if i had qq and went all in i would always think
that they either had kk or aa.
obviously they somrtimes will,
but i guess u r saying that "over time"
it will pay?
what about calling an all-in,
would u be with qq?
and if so,what would be your lowest all-in calling range be?
or is it player dependant?

thanks buddy

devon

.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: trying 2 cash @ nl4:

thanks lambert, still trying to get my head around all these new concepts 2 me. as i am undoubtedly a "bit of a nit", . if i had qq and went all in i would always think that they either had kk or aa. obviously they somrtimes will, but i guess u r saying that "over time" it will pay? what about calling an all-in, would u be with qq? and if so,what would be your lowest all-in calling range be? or is it player dependant? thanks buddy devon .
Posted by devonfish5

I'm definitely calling an all-in QQ, there are very rare circumstances where if you're playing against a proper Reg like Rancid and you're deep and it goes... you raise 20p, he 3bets to £1.20, you 4bet to £3.20, he shoves for another £3.60 on top, you're probably in trouble but I still can't fold QQ to be honest.

I'm happy to get it all in pre with QQ all day long, if it's a cooler, it's a cooler, and more often than not, if he has KK/AA, he aint gonna flop a set, so you'll still have an overpair to the board and most cases you aint gonna let go and will still lose.

Your lowest calling range is gonna be a bit player dependent, that's a very good area to makes notes in, like if you shove whatever and he calls for 50BBs with KJ, you need to make a note of that. People generally call with less hands than they shove with so if he calls with KJ, he's probably shoving with QJ, KT, cards like that, so against these people I would 100% call a shove with AK, AQ, probably AJ. Whereas I would never call a shove pre from Ranid with AJ.

In reality, you don't want a large amount of your money/profits to come from flips because long term, it's only gonna be about 50/50.

Against your average player at 4NL that I don't know but is your average limps-alot, calls-alot, I will call an all in for up to 100BB with AA/KK/QQ/AK, and probably JJ.