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If Beaneh wants to create a hostile environment that's up to him.. I don't think it's necessarily a good look for him, but nonetheless he has history with offshoot or whatever and that qualifies him to write whatever he likes.
I'm embarrassed for the people like the don and others who corroborate his opinions based purely on the fact they want to join in with Beaneh and be on his 'side'.. massively cringe.
As for the op, if he did infact call then that is just the biggest misinterpretation of what good poker is.
(agree w Splashy)
Even though shoving is probably the better option calling is fine.
If you want to be so literal about my wording then yes that would be hyperbole. I just feel like your calling to feed an ego, give me 1 solid reason you just called and didnt raise? what did they even have btw
he had T9.
UL nearly won the hero t-shirt
FTW I don't think it's that bad a call but really with A/K high - shove is so superman FTW
Bluffs you beat- 22-55. 6,2/6,3/6,4/6,5/5,4/6,8/5,8
Bluffs you don't beat- 10,6/Q,6/K,6/A,6/10,9/A,K/A,Q/A,10- ALL FD's 10hi or more
Bluffs that fold to a shove- ALL OF THE ABOVE
Can i also state i didnt intend to take sides, ive actually got a great deal of respect for both players.
Posted by pr1nnyraid
Well what played into my mind was a previous hand which was played similar but he led out the river when he hit a gutshot after missing his flush draw. I thought theres a good chance he can have a jack but i also beat a lot of his missed draws or counterfeited pairs.
He wasnt limping strong hands so already his range is a lot weaker and you can discount AJ+ probably and most likely KJ/KQ 99+.
The previous hand he had a flush draw and snap called two streets. So on the river im already assuming his hand is pretty weak. I think he folds complete air to the turn bet though so i dont expect to see a bare ace on the river much or something without any straight draws like QT or K9. I do expect him to have all straight and flush draws though still in his range and random 6's and maybe 55 or 44.
I think he checks back an ace on the river. His pot bet to me meant he had no showdown value or a jack so...
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
191 games 0.000 secs 38,200 games/sec
Board: 6s 7s 7d Jc Jd
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.403% 45.55% 07.85% 87 15.00 { 9s8d }
Hand 1: 46.597% 38.74% 07.85% 74 15.00 { 55-44, KsTs, Ks9s, Ks8s, K6s, QJs, QsTs, Qs9s, Qs8s, Qs6s, J8s+, J6s, T8s+, Ts6s, 98s, 96s-95s, 86s-85s, 63s+, 54s, 5s3s, 4s3s, K6o, QJo, J8o+, J6o, T8o+, 98o, 96o-95o, 86o-85o, 63o+, 54o }
So its not bad. Just not the best play.
open jamming AA for 100bb's is +EV but it's still bad because its not extracting as much value as it could. Apply the same principal to this hand and it should never be just a call.
Given your analysis of hand & villain it seems like this is a good spot to fire the riv.
9 high is never a bluff catcher is it, prefer bet on river to fold out missed darws
I have to re-iterate again i dont think i played this hand that well. I was merely trying to make the point that on the river a call is not terrible.
No one here is obligated to do anything. If people dont want to post in this thread they dont have to. Im not asking anyone for anything. Maybe i dont give advice because i dont feel qualified to? Maybe people have said what i would say anyway. Maybe none of this is very important.
Im sure youve got a point under all this hostility. I know youre very angry about something. But i dont know what it is. I dont really care though.
There is some credit and logic to what OP was trying to do but pretty flawed in the end.. imo he should have written 'misclick f*kkk!' in the chat bar and never talked about the hand ever again.
In regards to the hand, the play by offshoot clearly has some thinking about it going by his stove results. In honesty the level on which its played on is above where i am abilitied to play. As a result i enjoy reading hands and will maybe put a viewpoint if i think i can add some constructive discussion. In this instance i was reading and tried to make the thread which i felt might easily get out of hand and put something lighthearted.
If you have any other issues regarding my post then pm me as i have no interest in this thread any more. Simply my comment has been taken out of context imo.
But it just seems thats its easier to not reply than to just be rude for the sake of it. I really dont see the point of it. And lets be honest, this isnt the first time beaneh has taken the time to go out of his way just to be unpleasant to someone.
But at the same time an argument I've had with beaneh in the past lead to one of the best tweaks into my game. Obv the hand is ridiculous. But if he says its posted as a conversation stimulater (which is also something I tend to do) he really oughtnt to get too much hostility for it.
The discussion of the hand seems to have ended quite a while ago. I think it's best if this thread was allowed to die now. This "friendly banter" can continue elsewhere but this isn't clinic material anymore.
Attempting to just use the reads Shoot has given us let's have a look at pre and and the river.
Pre: Players that limp the button and have this image very rarely fold when we raise from the blinds. Yes we are taking control of the hand and trying to represent strength for a later street, but we must consider the level of thinking our opponent is on. They may not be taking a blind bit of notice of what we are representing, they may, and I think this is the case here, be just looking at the spots on their cards. I'm not in love with the Iso OOP here but I'm sure I've done it plenty in similar spots so I'm not going to go caveman over it. But we can found ourselves in spots like this where we try to standard raise pre/C-bet take it down and then find ourselves shovelling more and more money to make the plan work when initially we were just trying to take down a few quid. In position my thoughts are a lot different obviously.
River: Against a thinking player this is an awful river to barrel, the board has run out so bad to continue that check/give up is the only option in many cases. The only hands that make sense are pocket 7s, pocket Jacks and some Jx hands. Well we're representing a little thin if all we represent are quads and boats. However let's go back to the thinking level of the opponent. If our reads are that they are strictly playing level 1 (their own cards and blind to our actions) then this is a condition to let us lead the river here. Of course we need to be putting them on low PPs and draws throughout the hand. Personally I would probably be putting in £90-£100 on the river to steal.
The downside to that is if they decide to bluff it'll be a shove and I'm folding, but I think he only pot bluffs the river because he is checked to. If we fire the river I think we get a bunch of folds.
Cliffs on river: 9/10 barrelling this river is burning money, this might be the exception.
Check/jam river as played? Our fold equity is dramatically reduced after he has potted it. Yes he more than likely folds now we know the hand but if we do jam we are getting nothing with any value off (Ace kicker and up). I'd prefer to at least fold out the bottom of hands he consider might have a chance of the win.
To reiterate what I initially posted, I think we are good here a number of times but not enough to make the call against this player. They are bluffing a high amount of the time but we don't beat enough of them. Closer than it looks but not close enough IMO.