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MINI EVENTS

2

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  • FlyingDaggFlyingDagg
    edited November 2012
    Tikay this is taken from a Sky admin post on the original Mini thread:
    So we've decided we will do a trial (alternating days) which will be like this:

    Tonight (Monday) = £3.30
    Tuesday = £5.50
    Wednesday = £3.30
    Thursday = £5.50
    Friday = £3.30
    Satuday = £5.50
    Sunday = £5.50 (as usual)

    We'll then review next Monday (12th).

    It would have been courteous of Sky to post on the original thread what their decision was but we never heard anything. I looked back from Tuesdays buy in and had to go back to last Friday to find a £3-30 buy in. Maybe I jumped the gun slightly but when Sky said they would review on the 12th I was expecting some kind of announcement. that never came hence my post. At least there are 2 I can afford to play so thank you for that.

    Tikay it appeaars you have answered the question I raised in this post while i was composing it so thank you.
    .
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog
    edited November 2012
    This is a business in a free market. If you're not happy with the service or products that are offered you are absolutely free to do your gaming elsewhere. 

    This isn't some sort of social enterprise were we have to pretend everybody is equal.

    The BUSINESS will concentrate their resources on those customers that provide the most revenue to maximize PROFIT. That's what businesses do. 


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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited November 2012

    I have not addressed the "Responsible Gaming" debate, as I honestly don't think it is connected.

    The Business tries to get players to play on the site more - that's perfectly natural & normal, thats what any business tries to do.

    I personally believe that it tries to do that in a responsible manner, although it is quite a complex matter, & not one I'm mandated or trained to discuss. 
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    Tikay this is taken from a Sky admin post on the original Mini thread: So we've decided we will do a trial (alternating days) which will be like this: Tonight (Monday) = £3.30 Tuesday = £5.50 Wednesday = £3.30 Thursday = £5.50 Friday = £3.30 Satuday = £5.50 Sunday = £5.50 (as usual) We'll then review next Monday (12th). It would have been courteous of Sky to post on the original thread what their decision was but we never heard anything. I looked back from Tuesdays buy in and had to go back to last Friday to find a £3-30 buy in. Maybe I jumped the gun slightly but when Sky said they would review on the 12th I was expecting some kind of announcement. that never came hence my post. At least there are 2 I can afford to play so thank you for that. Tikay it appeaars you have answered the question I raised in this post while i was composing it so thank you. .
    Posted by FlyingDagg
    I think that is completey fair comment Dagg, & you can blame me for that, as perhaps I should have made it known.

    But I don't think we should confuse "courteous" (lack of) with "don't care".
     
    Well I hope I have answered some of your questions, yes, & I can completely understand why you Posted as you did.       
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  • NColleyNColley
    edited November 2012
    Open your eyes, this site goes far beyond any other in terms of attempting to satisfy lower bankroll players. Prizes for DTDs, prizes for various others leagues, the DYM ladder challenge, the HU ladder challenge, free competitions, the current promotion has had overlay almost every tourney.

    Its ridiculous how much people are complaining with regards to 'you don't care about lower bankroll players. Get a grip.
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  • FlyingDaggFlyingDagg
    edited November 2012
    FlashFlush you are so wide of the mark with your last post. To say that if you cant afford £5-50 then your main game must be STTs is wrong. All the MTTs from $1-10/£2-20 deepstacks to bounty hunters up to say £3-30 get loads of support and I will wager that a lot of these are the type of player who would pay the £3-30 to play the Mini. You only need to look at past fields to see that the same names crop up in the Mini as appear in the Deepstacks. And for what it's worth I've yet to play in a Mini where it can be classed as a shove fest and that includes Bounty Hunters
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    This is a business in a free market. If you're not happy with the service or products that are offered you are absolutely free to do your gaming elsewhere.  This isn't some sort of social enterprise were we have to pretend everybody is equal. The BUSINESS will concentrate their resources on those customers that provide the most revenue to maximize PROFIT. That's what businesses do. 
    Posted by BrownnDog

    Such a blinded response to what is actually on debate here. Shame.
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    Open your eyes, this site goes far beyond any other in terms of attempting to satisfy lower bankroll players. Prizes for DTDs, prizes for various others leagues, the DYM ladder challenge, the HU ladder challenge, free competitions, the current promotion has had overlay almost every tourney. Its ridiculous how much people are complaining with regards to 'you don't care about lower bankroll players. Get a grip.
    Posted by NColley

    Another poster who has gone off track to what is trying to be discussed here. The Thread title is MINI EVENTS.
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  • CrazyBen23CrazyBen23
    edited November 2012
    Just delete the thread before it gets anymore depressing
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS : Such a blinded response to what is actually on debate here. Shame.
    Posted by MAXALLY
    Oh 

    Is that so? Feel free to explain my lack of vision.

    As I see it, you feel betrayed because a **business** has made a **commercial decision** to change its pricing policy. A business is accountable to its shareholders; who in turn want to attain maximum profitability by appointing a management team to implement a successful business strategy. 

    You are trying to influence the cost of something you have not yet purchased. It's like me writing a letter to Tesco asking them to reduce the price of a can of beans. In reality, I would get in my car and go in the other direction and buy cheaper beans from Asda. That's a **free market**. 

    It is perfectly ok and reasonable to not like a commercial decision a business makes, but to suggest that a business **must** cater for you, otherwise they are being 'irresponsible' is plainly ludicrous. Lets start taking responsibility for our own actions and choices. 

    If Sky Bet believes that increasing certain buyins will leads to maximum profitability in the longer term, then it is a perfectly sensible and wise road for them to go down. They have no inherent **responsibility** to provide a pricing strategy that is affordable to everybody if in their opinion, it doesn't make commercial sense for them to do so. 
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS : Oh  Is that so? Feel free to explain my lack of vision. As I see it, you feel betrayed because a **business** has made a **commercial decision** to change its pricing policy. A business is accountable to its shareholders; who in turn want to attain maximum profitability by appointing a management team to implement a successful business strategy.  You are trying to influence the cost of something you have not yet purchased. It's like me writing a letter to Tesco asking them to reduce the price of a can of beans. In reality, I would get in my car and go in the other direction and buy cheaper beans from Asda. That's a **free market**.  It is perfectly ok and reasonable to not like a commercial decision a business makes, but to suggest that a business **must** cater for you otherwise they are being 'irresponsible' is plainly ludicrous. Lets start taking responsibility for our own actions and choices.  If Sky Bet believes that increasing certain buyins will leads to maximum profitability in the long term, then it is a perfectly sensible and wise road for them to go down. They have no inherent **responsibility** to provide a pricing strategy that is affordable to everybody if in their opinion, it doesn't make commercial sense for them to do so. 
    Posted by BrownnDog

    My choice of action is not to bother replying to this.

    Glad you are totally on top of the subject though.



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  • FlashFlushFlashFlush
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    FWIW in my opinion I think £5.50 is a perfect buy in for a decent sized MTT. Without going into the do you have a bankroll or a budgt debate, if you can't afford the £5.50 buyin, then your regular game I expect would be STT's anyway because you don't get much lower. On the flip side as I said above if it appeals to enough with the TV coverage and gets over 250 runners then the prize pool will appeal to the bigger players as well. I just feel that the £3.30 buyin was too low to appeal to a lot of players and with the top heavy prize structures you get in poker, a lot of people just play "Shove poker" to either get a stack or be out and that isn't good for anyone. Just think - You are new to poker and you have watched the Sky channel a lot, there are a few players on there you look upto. Then suddenly your drawn on the same table as them in the mini. You think oohh great this could be a good experience I'm going to watch how they play, and then they just shove all their chips in 10 hands running because the prizeppol is too small and it's all or nothing even with 300 people in the tournament still....
    Posted by FlashFlush
    Sorry, where did I say "If you can't afford £5.50 then your not allowed to play MTTs"?
    MTTs go down to £1.10 (Excluding all in games) and STTs go down to 60p. Just an observation...

    This thread clearly isn't going anywhere, Tikay has answered the questions so rather than trying to look on the flip side to show other peoples opinions I'll just say what someone less political would say... Sky have made the change, build a bridge and get over it! .. Is that better?
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave
    edited November 2012
    This is obviously a subject that has strong supporters on both sides of the argument. I'm going to politely ask all concerned to keep it as constructive as possible though, otherwise we'll end up closing the thread.

    Thanks all.

    Dave
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog
    edited November 2012
    Thank you for conceding defeat. 
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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT
    edited November 2012


         I play the Mini to try & boost my BR. When they started they were supposed to be 10% of Main buy in which suited me as i thought £3-30 was reasonable plus i don't play the Sunday one. Over the Month it's now gonna cost me an extra £62 to play them, so it looks like i'll only be playing the wed & fri ones such a shame to ruin what was such a good Price Structure for low BR Players.
      On the brightside tho we do still have Forum DTD 3x Tourneys for      £5-50
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ
    edited November 2012

    Why are the £5 Mini Bounty Hunters raked at 10% while all other £5 Bounty Hunters are raked at 15%?



     

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  • SlykllistSlykllist
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    This is a business in a free market. If you're not happy with the service or products that are offered you are absolutely free to do your gaming elsewhere.  This isn't some sort of social enterprise were we have to pretend everybody is equal. The BUSINESS will concentrate their resources on those customers that provide the most revenue to maximize PROFIT. That's what businesses do. 
    Posted by BrownnDog
    ^^ THIS ^^
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  • SlykllistSlykllist
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS : Oh  Is that so? Feel free to explain my lack of vision. As I see it, you feel betrayed because a **business** has made a **commercial decision** to change its pricing policy. A business is accountable to its shareholders; who in turn want to attain maximum profitability by appointing a management team to implement a successful business strategy.  You are trying to influence the cost of something you have not yet purchased. It's like me writing a letter to Tesco asking them to reduce the price of a can of beans. In reality, I would get in my car and go in the other direction and buy cheaper beans from Asda. That's a **free market**.  It is perfectly ok and reasonable to not like a commercial decision a business makes, but to suggest that a business **must** cater for you, otherwise they are being 'irresponsible' is plainly ludicrous. Lets start taking responsibility for our own actions and choices.  If Sky Bet believes that increasing certain buyins will leads to maximum profitability in the longer term, then it is a perfectly sensible and wise road for them to go down. They have no inherent **responsibility** to provide a pricing strategy that is affordable to everybody if in their opinion, it doesn't make commercial sense for them to do so. 
    Posted by BrownnDog

    ^^ AND THIS ^^
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  • kaymackaymac
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    This is a business in a free market. If you're not happy with the service or products that are offered you are absolutely free to do your gaming elsewhere.  This isn't some sort of social enterprise were we have to pretend everybody is equal. The BUSINESS will concentrate their resources on those customers that provide the most revenue to maximize PROFIT. That's what businesses do. 
    Posted by BrownnDog

    This is short term gain with no long term strategy. 

    Sky, like every business need every customer, not just the high spenders.
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  • DazlerDazler
    edited November 2012
    ive always played the mini every night, i did last night and noticed the buy in had gone up to £5.50 after being away from here for the last month, there were 300 runners and i came 15th and won about 12 quid and it payed 40 players. So my question is - is it worth it? I could play a £5.50 and play a game thats im more likely to win for the same price and still win a decent prize pool with less runners around 40 - 100. The whole point of the mini was i thought to attract the low stakes players and the highstakes in one place and was cheap enough to be great value for money for the low stakers and mid staked could possibly win the jackpot. This would of been one of my main games on an evening with lots of runners so we all feel special when being involved with it. As it stands now for me on this, I wont be playing it as one of my regular evening game as but may play on the odd occassion.

    I must say im finding it harder and harder to find a game that suites my needs and the choices i have for a low stake player are getting thin on the ground whether its a £2.20 £3.30 or £5.50 game. Ive even noticed the regular late night ones changing or disapearing. I Dont mind the buy in rise in the mini but i also dont like it either unless the prize pool was raised to attract me to it for the double up in buy in cost, its less choice for low stakes players who have to now be picky if they buy in for £5 odd and wont do it every night if they have to beat 300 plus players.

    Will it bring a better standard of play though? generaly i find the £2.20 games become shove fests and some really bad poker goes on making you have to dodge a lot more and play differently and take more risks, so this could make people play a little better in standard and make it more enjoyable so in this case it could be a good thing. I dont know it is a shame as i always see a lot of regs playing it but i think it could put quite a lot off.
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  • SlykllistSlykllist
    edited November 2012
    Just for balance.... I am a low stakes player in the main so very much understand the arguement raised here and feel (as I voiced on a previous thread) that it would be very short sighted of Sky to alienate and risk losing low stakes players as without them you lose what in football and other sports would be referred to as the 'grass roots' which in time will always lead to a failure of the system.

    That said, I completely agree with a couple of other posts on here that as customers we need to realise SkyPoker is a business and ultimately is at liberty to make whatever decisions over the running of it business that it sees fit.  The fact that these decisions are communicated at all puts Sky ahead of any other poker site that I am aware of.  Naturally there will be people who don't like some decisons as there are in all areas of life, we always have the option to vote with our feet if we feel that strongly about it.
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  • FlyingDaggFlyingDagg
    edited November 2012
    Simon as you know I'm very much a low stakes player too and I realise that as a business Sky has to do what is best for itself. Personally I was against the increase but I realise that what I think doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but for now I'm grateful that there are still 2 Minis within my bankroll.

    I agree that the voice we have here on the forum puts Sky way ahead of their competitors. As far as I know no other site offers us the same voice but because of that when communications aren't as good as we expect, as in this case, we feel a bit let down.
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  • TommyDTommyD
    edited November 2012

    Ok I'm going to attempt to focus this post as much as I can on the mini events, mainly because I don't want Maxy to slap me ;)

    My opinion hasn't changed since the discussion thread a couple of weeks ago.  I believe the minis should be 10% of the buy in of the main events and they be exact clones of said mains in every other way (including making the Friday mini a £2.20 rebuy).  However I do accept and respect whatever decision SkyPoker make as it's someone else who will get the praise/problems when business matters go right/wrong.  As a customer or client it's up to me and all of us whether I want to buy what's being sold here.

    It has been brought up here and elsewhere SkyPoker's attitude towards the smaller bankrolled player and if the change in the mini event buy ins directly relate to an alienation between the two.  As I have said before I do believe that SkyPoker do a heck of a lot for smaller bankrolled players.  However I do believe this change of majority of mini buyins is a furthering of a paradigm shift as to what buy ins constitute a micro tourney.  The range of what would be considered a small buy in tournie is, in my humble opinion, being shifted slightly higher, with the gradual change in the majority of mini event buy ins being the latest part of this.  I personally don't think this is a good thing but again I appreciate and respect it is not my call to make.  There have never been, to my recollection, regular sub £1 MTTs here.  A portion of the £1 MTTs are the ridiculous (IMO) 'Chip and chair' lottery games.  The range of what is a micro tourney has always been slightly higher than the industry standard and now that range is moving up.  Now you may think I'm totally off base thinking this but it's the opinion I'm holding from all of the recent schedule changes, of which the mini changes is the latest.

    I also feel a little soul destroyed by some of the comments from people holding views both sides of the fence, both expressed here and elsewhere.  Myself and Kaymac attempted to get a thread going which was all about being constructive.  It didn't gain much reaction, yet threads and discussions on this and other matters, here and pretty much all forums/social media which spark a general tone towards being destructive thrive, with some comments which make me sigh for society.  That's not a dig at Sky or the OP (which I don't think was wholly destructive), it's a sociological trend which is compelling me to post much less across all social media.

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  • paige55paige55
    edited November 2012

    +1 TommyD WELL PUT

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  • SlykllistSlykllist
    edited November 2012
    Tommy the voice of reason as always, good post.
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  • cleansweepcleansweep
    edited November 2012
    We all understand that everyone has to be considered when taking decisons!
    It's the speed that's disconcerting!
    our Sky TV and broadband changes are notified at least a month before the changes take place.
    Utility changes are advertised well in advance, even Council Tax raises are advertised in advance, but it seems that tournament changes happen overnight with little or no warning.
    I'm sad that a tournament devised for small bankrolls has been manipulated to cater for medium and larger bankrolls but c'est la vie!
    We should be asking, are there any more tournament changes happening? and when are they scheduled to take place?
    The forum is a privilege not a right. Just by reading this thread you can see the majority have made constructive comments.
    I know all will be read and am confident that Sky will be more transparent when the next changes take place
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  • paige55paige55
    edited November 2012
    you are so right, the forum is a privilege, with out it we could not make any comment,but most player,s on sky do not use it,how i wish more would use it,
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited November 2012


    FWIW, nice post TommyD.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited November 2012

    Morning Tommy.

    In an ideal world, it would be pretty neat, symmetrical, & cool, to have, as you suggested, Mini Mains which did this......


    "......I believe the minis should be 10% of the buy in of the main events and they be exact clones of said mains in every other way....."

    Now consider this. 

    The Main Event this Sunday is the £110 SUPER ROLLER.
     
    So, do you think everyone would be happy if the Mini Main this Sunday were priced at £11?

    These things seem simple at first sight, but delve a little deeper & it very often begins to get more complicated.
     
    If only we lived in an ideal world!     
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS:
    Morning Tommy. In an ideal world, it would be pretty neat, symmetrical, & cool, to have, as you suggested, Mini Mains which did this...... "......I believe the minis should be 10% of the buy in of the main events and they be exact clones of said mains in every other way....." Now consider this.  The Main Event this Sunday is the £110 SUPER ROLLER.   So, do you think everyone would be happy if the Mini Main this Sunday were priced at £11? These things seem simple at first sight, but delve a little deeper & it very often begins to get more complicated.   If only we lived in an ideal world!  
    Posted by Tikay10
    Using the Roller to mask the bigger questions about the NIGHTLY (not every 6 months like rollers) Minis is thin TBH.

    This would then (hopefully) be labelled a 'mini roller'. Yes, like Orfords hair....all things are not black and white and there are grey areas wherever you look for them.

    Like other things, a spin can be put on it so it favours the 'fors' or 'againsts'.

    Anyway, will there be a 'smaller' buy in roller on Sunday?
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