Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.

Smitalos · January 2013

wp on just acting on raw emotion and anger instead of answering the question accurately.

The whole point of my post was that it DOES matter when you got all your money in. If you get AK in against JJ preflop, the odds are 43%-57%. The board run-out is irrelavant. Whether it comes JTT T T, or TTT T J, the order of the 5 community cards doesn't matter.

If you are ALL-IN PREFLOP with JJ (or AK) and come out the loser, it doesn't matter one bit that the first 3 cards helped your opponent. It isn't some huge massive sick suckout that you flopped a full-house and lost. Those times when that happens are included in the 43% of the time you'll lose, pre.

Every time you get your money in, you guys can't complain that at SOME point in the hand you were a huge favourite, and ended up losing. It doesn't matter!

X% you'll win, and X% you'll lose. That's it. The cards are just a medium through which the percentages are represented, once the money has gone in the middle.
Almost everyone here thinks that if you have KK v AA pre, and all the money goes in, and it comes KK2, but then comes running A - A, it's some massive suckout? Y'all can't wait to post in the forums about how you run so bad, and how it was so unlikely for you to lose, how the guy with Aces should never have won the hand.

Your post is a grade-A example of people twisting their story to make it seem like they're the victim. You opponent didn't hit a 0.7% on you, he hit his 43%er. Which, imo, is nothing to write home about.

I'm not trying to attack you, just trying to make a point. Last thing I want is for you to take it personally and proclaim that you'll never use the forums again because your feelings got hurt. But, if you're not into debate/discussion, then yes, maybe the forums arn't for you.

step7 · January 2013

Back to booboo's question, if the money goes in the flop, yes this is an example of the worsed bad beat possible in HE - perfect perfect. Pails into insignifance compared to a real bad beat at backgammon which can be as bad as a 0.0003%er coming in!

booboo5205 · January 2013

I give in end of.

booboo5205 · January 2013

(((-)))):

ZeroG · January 2013

In Response to gg sir:

wp on just acting on raw emotion and anger instead of answering the question accurately. The whole point of my post was that it DOES matter when you got all your money in. If you get AK in against JJ preflop, the odds are 43%-57%. The board run-out is irrelavant. Whether it comes JTT T T, or TTT T J, the order of the 5 community cards doesn't matter. If you are ALL-IN PREFLOP with JJ (or AK) and come out the loser, it doesn't matter one bit that the first 3 cards helped your opponent. It isn't some huge massive sick suckout that you flopped a full-house and lost. Those times when that happens are included in the 43% of the time you'll lose, pre. Every time you get your money in, you guys can't complain that at SOME point in the hand you were a huge favourite, and ended up losing. It doesn't matter! X% you'll win, and X% you'll lose. That's it. The cards are just a medium through which the percentages are represented, once the money has gone in the middle. Almost everyone here thinks that if you have KK v AA pre, and all the money goes in, and it comes KK2, but then comes running A - A, it's some massive suckout? Y'all can't wait to post in the forums about how you run so bad, and how it was so unlikely for you to lose, how the guy with Aces should never have won the hand. Your post is a grade-A example of people twisting their story to make it seem like they're the victim. You opponent didn't hit a 0.7% on you, he hit his 43%er. Which, imo, is nothing to write home about. I'm not trying to attack you, just trying to make a point. Last thing I want is for you to take it personally and proclaim that you'll never use the forums again because your feelings got hurt. But, if you're not into debate/discussion, then yes, maybe the forums arn't for you.
Posted by Smitalos

I do not agree with this. You claim the run out of cards does not matter. Well as poker is a game of odds,reads, assumptions and a bit of luck you statement about this is incorrect. As at each street the odds that you win the hand change weather all the money is in or not.

And in this case after the flop come J1010 the odd he quotes are right. This in my opinion is a suck out. You talk about the odds pre flop well the second that flop hit even witht he money in it changes those odds which mean the person the odd are in favour of has the higher chance to win. However to see quads come out in the community when there is a 0.7% chance that your opponent can catch his outs is not right IMO. that means this happen less than 1 in 100. yet these always seem to occur on here as well as other sites. The cases of certain sites as I spoke about earlier show this and how it occurs by people cheating. People make out that UB and FTP are one offs but FTP was one of the biggest sites online at the time and UB was not small.

1. The are a couple of simple solutions to this. People can keep playing and prove this while loosing loads of money to the cheats.

2. You can quit altogehter from the site.

3. Sky could man up and I am sure they have read this post. If they have nothing to hide release the information. They are a private company and do not have to however and looking at the posting the forum about bad beats etc they would surely. In one easy movement they could convince people this is not the case install trust in the people like me and others that are scepitical about online poker after all the information in the press and online and probabl secure a large client base in the UK because of it, as people would be more inclined to recommend the site above others.

Just my 2 cents n top of all the other comments.

Smitalos · January 2013

In Response to Re: gg sir:

In Response to gg sir : I do not agree with this. You claim the run out of cards does not matter. Well as poker is a game of odds,reads, assumptions and a bit of luck you statement about this is incorrect. As at each street the odds that you win the hand change weather all the money is in or not. And in this case after the flop come J1010 the odd he quotes are right. This in my opinion is a suck out. You talk about the odds pre flop well the second that flop hit even witht he money in it changes those odds which mean the person the odd are in favour of has the higher chance to win. However to see quads come out in the community when there is a 0.7% chance that your opponent can catch his outs is not right IMO. that means this happen less than 1 in 100. yet these always seem to occur on here as well as other sites. The cases of certain sites as I spoke about earlier show this and how it occurs by people cheating. People make out that UB and FTP are one offs but FTP was one of the biggest sites online at the time and UB was not small. 1. The are a couple of simple solutions to this. People can keep playing and prove this while loosing loads of money to the cheats. 2. You can quit altogehter from the site. 3. Sky could man up and I am sure they have read this post. If they have nothing to hide release the information. They are a private company and do not have to however and looking at the posting the forum about bad beats etc they would surely. In one easy movement they could convince people this is not the case install trust in the people like me and others that are scepitical about online poker after all the information in the press and online and probabl secure a large client base in the UK because of it, as people would be more inclined to recommend the site above others. Just my 2 cents n top of all the other comments.
Posted by ZeroG

That's it, i can't be nice to you guys any more. Your delusions are rediculous.
You're also comparing corrupt businessmen, to fit your fallacious argument that the hole cards arn't fair, or that there's something up with the RNG. There has never been a case found where the RNG isn't fair. (doesn't make it impossible, just exceptionally unlikely)
Most probably, you're just super inexp. at poker, and are blaming it on being unlucky.
"errr no I'm not actually, Smitalos, that would be stupid!"
No, you are. That's EXACTLY what you're saying. Because somehow, you're trying to justify, that if you get your money in (all if it, ALL-IN), and suckout on someone else, but then get sucked out on the other way in the same hand, it's unlucky.
If your A7 loses to AA, are you unlucky? No.
What about if the board comes 772 4 A. How about now? The answer is still no, if all the money went in preflop. Where the money goes in DOES matter, and if you don't understand that, you're a terrible poker player and a poor thinker. Getting your money in preflop means you got your money in BEHIND, and you DESERVE to lose. Getting your money in on that flop means you deserve to WIN, and your opponent deserves to lose.

You're basically saying, that whoever loses the hand, is unlucky. If a guy gets his money in w/AK vs AA preflop, and it comes Q J T, only for it to comes running Q Q, it somehow means that it's threadworthy, and you have to start whining about how poker is rigged. It's not rigged, it's statistics.

You know WHY you think you're unlucky?
Because every hand you lose, you keep taking the point in the hand that had the lowest amount of equity, and saying LOOK MA, I'M SO UNLUCKY!!

Let me ask you, if you get your money in preflop with AK vs AQ, and you win. Are you lucky?

Then let me ask you again, what if you got your money in, AK vs AQ, and it came 2 2 Q 5 K. Are you lucky?

In BOTH scenarios, when the money went in (PRE FLOP), the AQ was a 3/1 underdog. The board runout from that point onward is IRRELAVENT.

I could flip a coin twice. Heads-Heads, Heads-Tails, and Tails-Heads means I win. Tails-Tails means YOU win. Thats what a 3/1 underdog is. WHEN YOU PLACE THE BET, BEFORE i've started to flip the coins, you are a 25%er. And the bet will LOSE you money in the longrun. If however, half way through flipping the coins, it's already landed once on Tails, your odds on the original bet don't improve, AT ALL. You still got your money in bad, in what was a losing proposition. Whether it comes Tails first or not, doesn't change your overall odds BEFORE you place the bet!!

BEFORE the community cards come down, AQ v AK is a 3/1 dog. When it comes Q22, it doesn't mean you got your money in good or that you were right for getting AQ in pre against the AK. It also doesn't suddenly mean that when you lose, it's some sick suckout. The times when the King comes (and you both end up having a pair of queens and a pair of kings) are INCLUDED in the 75% of the time your opponent will win, and you'll lose!

This is my last post in BBV. I didn't think rigtards could annoy me so much with their illogical claims based on nothing but post-rationalisation and superstition.

unknown_username · January 2013

In Response to #losecause:

... I didn't think rigtards could annoy me so much with their illogical claims based on nothing but post-rationalisation and superstition.
Posted by Smitalos

What's a rigtard?

step7 · January 2013

Goether, rig-tard. hope that helps.

I agree with 99% of your comments lc but would say being involved in a perfect-perfect is threadworthy but not as a bad beat or "rigged" post.

unknown_username · January 2013

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.:

Goether, rig-tard. hope that helps. I agree with 99% of your comments lc but would say being involved in a perfect-perfect is threadworthy but not as a bad beat or "rigged" post.
Posted by step7

http://pokerterms.com/rigtard.html

Think you got my comments mixed up with someone else's?

alimay · January 2013

I have read this with interest,, as a totaly new player I started in micro cash 2/4p thought I was making the right plays,playing position raising2x or 3x big, but was getting called multy ways by rubbish and losing to it,Had a moan to the o/h about bad beats and what was happening he watched and said make your raises for all your ranges 5x+ then you will be up against marginals and the 85 96 will fold, tried this didnt work ,so I made him watch again (you should have heard him moan) He said its not the way you play its who your playing against they are reccy plays out for FUN and want to see flops( no disrespect intended) the stakes your playing for wont put anyone inthe poor house,so either get use to your premium hands getting beat in multy way pots or move up stakes where the skill factor will come more into it,if your bankroll wont let you move up then do what I am doing, save until it does as you have years of experience that shouldnt be a problem but with me its going to cost me to learn. So to sum up micro stakes players are out for fun they want the excitement want to see flops want to brag how they cracked aa with72 off and lets face it you get legislate for what humans do

bassripper · January 2013

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.:

I have read this with interest,, as a totaly new player I started in micro cash 2/4p thought I was making the right plays,playing position raising2x or 3x big, but was getting called multy ways by rubbish and losing to it,Had a moan to the o/h about bad beats and what was happening he watched and said make your raises for all your ranges 5x+ then you will be up against marginals and the 85 96 will fold, tried this didnt work ,so I made him watch again (you should have heard him moan) He said its not the way you play its who your playing against they are reccy plays out for FUN and want to see flops( no disrespect intended) the stakes your playing for wont put anyone inthe poor house,so either get use to your premium hands getting beat in multy way pots or move up stakes where the skill factor will come more into it,if your bankroll wont let you move up then do what I am doing, save until it does as you have years of experience that shouldnt be a problem but with me its going to cost me to learn. So to sum up micro stakes players are out for fun they want the excitement want to see flops want to brag how they cracked aa with72 off and lets face it you get legislate for what humans do
Posted by alimay

your other half is a bit dim unfortunately.

playing better players at higher stakes is going make you lose harder, quicker and loads more money.

ZeroG · January 2013

In Response to #lostcause:

In Response to Re: gg sir : That's it, i can't be nice to you guys any more. Your delusions are rediculous. You're also comparing corrupt businessmen, to fit your fallacious argument that the hole cards arn't fair, or that there's something up with the RNG. There has never been a case found where the RNG isn't fair. (doesn't make it impossible, just exceptionally unlikely) Most probably, you're just super inexp. at poker, and are blaming it on being unlucky. "errr no I'm not actually, Smitalos, that would be stupid!" No, you are. That's EXACTLY what you're saying. Because somehow, you're trying to justify, that if you get your money in (all if it, ALL-IN), and suckout on someone else, but then get sucked out on the other way in the same hand, it's unlucky. If your A7 loses to AA, are you unlucky? No. What about if the board comes 772 4 A. How about now? The answer is still no, if all the money went in preflop. Where the money goes in DOES matter, and if you don't understand that, you're a terrible poker player and a poor thinker. Getting your money in preflop means you got your money in BEHIND, and you DESERVE to lose. Getting your money in on that flop means you deserve to WIN, and your opponent deserves to lose. You're basically saying, that whoever loses the hand, is unlucky. If a guy gets his money in w/AK vs AA preflop, and it comes Q J T, only for it to comes running Q Q, it somehow means that it's threadworthy, and you have to start whining about how poker is rigged. It's not rigged, it's statistics. You know WHY you think you're unlucky? Because every hand you lose, you keep taking the point in the hand that had the lowest amount of equity, and saying LOOK MA, I'M SO UNLUCKY!! Let me ask you, if you get your money in preflop with AK vs AQ, and you win. Are you lucky? Then let me ask you again, what if you got your money in, AK vs AQ, and it came 2 2 Q 5 K. Are you lucky? In BOTH scenarios, when the money went in (PRE FLOP), the AQ was a 3/1 underdog. The board runout from that point onward is IRRELAVENT. I could flip a coin twice. Heads-Heads, Heads-Tails, and Tails-Heads means I win. Tails-Tails means YOU win. Thats what a 3/1 underdog is. WHEN YOU PLACE THE BET, BEFORE i've started to flip the coins, you are a 25%er. And the bet will LOSE you money in the longrun. If however, half way through flipping the coins, it's already landed once on Tails, your odds on the original bet don't improve, AT ALL. You still got your money in bad, in what was a losing proposition. Whether it comes Tails first or not, doesn't change your overall odds BEFORE you place the bet!! BEFORE the community cards come down, AQ v AK is a 3/1 dog. When it comes Q22, it doesn't mean you got your money in good or that you were right for getting AQ in pre against the AK. It also doesn't suddenly mean that when you lose, it's some sick suckout. The times when the King comes (and you both end up having a pair of queens and a pair of kings) are INCLUDED in the 75% of the time your opponent will win, and you'll lose! This is my last post in BBV. I didn't think rigtards could annoy me so much with their illogical claims based on nothing but post-rationalisation and superstition.
Posted by Smitalos

Wow someone has a bee in the bonet don't they. Was it not you that spoke about having discussions about this stuff?

ZeroG · January 2013

I find this funny. This part of the fourm is a place to vent about beats and when people do others just flame them down, stating they are bad poker players and that they should have not got the money in bla bla bla.

So you would not get it in pre flop with AK against a loose player you have watched playing 73 off. Your insane.

I started this to ask a question and got flammed time and time again, called a fool and told that my poker sucks. Wow what a great community. Maybe you should look inside yourselves if you wish to keep winning money and your all so pro with ityou need people to win the momney off of and if this is what you treat new starters like then I am surprised SKY have anyone left apart from the top 10% of players.

I personally will no longer be posting on this question as what people have told me about it is true. There is no discussion here there is a bunch of people with clouded judgement becasue they have the bankroll to support playing so loose or should I call it varience. It all seems to me a bit rubbish. You have so clled better players telling to to get it in when the time is right however when that right time get sucked out on by some mug playing cards they should not even be in the hand on and then to suck out on the river and they moan it is there fault for getting the money in and make the richer players richer and sky poke there rake or another peopson out of atourney so they can start another one.

Now to smitalos - Can you read? I quote from your post that I am "you're just super inexp. at poker". 8 years on and off and a good level of winnings at live tourneys and cash games.

Pciking one of the hand you spoken about the AK vs AA and the board coming 10JQ then turn Q and river Q do you know the odds of that happening?

After the flop the AK is 81.52% against 1.82% on the AA the rest is up in a tie

So at this point the Q on the turn has 12% chance of hitting and does in this example. However after the turn hit a Q the odds for each hand are:

AK 86.36% of the win and AA 6.82% of the win the rest is a tie. There is more chance for the tie than the AA winning.

For the final Q your talking about 4% chance to hit a Q and the AA win.

Now with all this you think this is not a suck out when the last Q hits. Your insane.

Anyway I can no longer be bother to try and discuss with people like this. So sad.

Cheers

ZG

ZeroG · January 2013

Wow 10k BH tonight hand I was outed on.

pocket KK with 40 bb behind. 3x raise in front and I jam all in he calls with what...........66 however as per usual going in massivly ahead on sky doesn't mean anything. he hits a 6. he should not even be in the hand. 40 bb raise and he calls. Wonder what he knew.

JSTFLIPPIN · January 2013

I get where ya coming from, the site has ALOT of idiots like a few other sites such as 888, however on this site these idiots will get lucky too often, this site doesn't allow HUDs so you can't track how unlucky you're getting. Obviously these sites has pros n cons, only reason i'm playing here is because of the fast cashouts and £, reason why I'm not playing at 888 is their silly exchange rates and you can lose alot of money just by cashing out from there.

Maybe give 888 a go but deposit and withdraw through a e-wallet or something so they don't mess your rates up, feels alot better playing their and my EV line is fine, whereas if I had access to my EV line here it would be off the scale, don't really feel comfortable playing here myself tbh with the 4digit pin password, the LEGIT rng, would be amazing if this site allowed HUD's anytime soon

I'm honestly not normally a rigtard I play on alot of sites and do well, but something about this site, I tend to hit sets more often too like they're nothing.

Smitalos · January 2013

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.:

(1) I personally will no longer be posting on this question as what people have told me about it is true. There is no discussion here there is a bunch of people with clouded judgement becasue they have the bankroll to support playing so loose or should I call it varience.
(2) Now to smitalos - Can you read? I quote from your post that I am " you're just super inexp. at poker". 8 years on and off and a good level of winnings at live tourneys and cash games.
(3) Pciking one of the hand you spoken about the AK vs AA and the board coming 10JQ then turn Q and river Q do you know the odds of that happening? After the flop the AK is 81.52% against 1.82% on the AA the rest is up in a tie So at this point the Q on the turn has 12% chance of hitting and does in this example. However after the turn hit a Q the odds for each hand are: AK 86.36% of the win and AA 6.82% of the win the rest is a tie. There is more chance for the tie than the AA winning.
(4) For the final Q your talking about 4% chance to hit a Q and the AA win. Now with all this you think this is not a suck out when the last Q hits. Your insane. Anyway I can no longer be bother to try and discuss with people like this. So sad. Cheers ZG
Posted by ZeroG

(1) Of course there is no discussion here, because all you do every post is just whine about how you keep losing and getting "unlucky". How about you post these hands, show us some facts, back your claims up with EVIDENCE. Until you do so, your erratic stream of posts will be given zero credit, and so they should. Everyone gets unlucky, and sure, you're allowed to bemoan your luck, that's exactly what this part of the forum is for. But you're adding nothing to the discussion, and making incredulous assumptions with nothing to back it up. Post these hands that you're getting so unlucky in, or better yet, keep a track record in this forum of EVERY All-in you get yourself into, and then people will start to take interest instead of seeing you as someone throwing his toys out the pram every time they lose, and blaming it on others.

(2) It was a friendly way of saying you're a recreational player. I've been playing for about 3 years, but I can almost guarantee I have a broader knowledge of the in's and out's of poker. That's not meant to be a brag nor an insult, i'm just trying to make a point. Just because you've played for a while doesn't make you the authority here.

(3) Yes, i have PokerStove, and i know the exact odds. Again, as you seem to have totally missed the point, i was using that hand as an example to show you how biased you are towards your own luck. Re-read my post, PLEASE.

IF YOU had AKo, and got your money in preflop, all-in, against 2 Aces. (AK v AA), and you lost, would you be unlucky?
(The answer should be no, because the best hand when the money went in, won.)
(Further proof that you're NOT unlucky if you lost here, would be to simply reverse it. If you had AA, and they had AK, would you be lucky if you won? No, of course not. The best hand, again, won.)

Now i'll ask you the same question. If you had AK, and they have AA, but the run-out is QJT, Q, Q, are you unlucky now?
The answer should still be no, because when the money went in preflop, you were a MASSIVE underdog, and extremely unlikely to win. The odds of you winning when the money goes in, doesn't change depending on the board run-out.

(4) No, as said, it's not a suckout. Because the money went in before the flop. The BEST hand won. If you were the guy with the Aces, and you get it all-in pre-flop, and he has AK, right? Your AA, vs my AK. And it comes QJT 2 2. Are you unlucky? Yes, of course you are. But if it comes QJT Q Q, are you suddenly lucky for winning the hand? NO. Because the best hand won! You got your money in good and you deserved to win, right? Which means you're NOT unlucky when you have it the other way round.
You need perspective, because your brain has been completely poisoned by illogical post-rationalisations. Every time your money goes in you just take the point in the hand where you were the biggest favourite, and complain about how you could lose from there.

People will start taking your posts more seriously when you provide some evidence. Until then, you're right, there's no real point in posting on here.

JSTFLIPPIN · January 2013

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.:

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this. : (1) Of course there is no discussion here, because all you do every post is just whine about how you keep losing and getting "unlucky". How about you post these hands, show us some facts, back your claims up with EVIDENCE. Until you do so, your erratic stream of posts will be given zero credit, and so they should. Everyone gets unlucky, and sure, you're allowed to bemoan your luck, that's exactly what this part of the forum is for. But you're adding nothing to the discussion, and making incredulous assumptions with nothing to back it up. Post these hands that you're getting so unlucky in, or better yet, keep a track record in this forum of EVERY All-in you get yourself into, and then people will start to take interest instead of seeing you as someone throwing his toys out the pram every time they lose, and blaming it on others. (2) It was a friendly way of saying you're a recreational player. I've been playing for about 3 years, but I can almost guarantee I have a broader knowledge of the in's and out's of poker. That's not meant to be a brag nor an insult, i'm just trying to make a point. Just because you've played for a while doesn't make you the authority here. (3) Yes, i have PokerStove, and i know the exact odds. Again, as you seem to have totally missed the point, i was using that hand as an example to show you how biased you are towards your own luck. Re-read my post, PLEASE. IF YOU had AKo, and got your money in preflop, all-in, against 2 Aces. (AK v AA), and you lost, would you be unlucky? (The answer should be no, because the best hand when the money went in, won.) (Further proof that you're NOT unlucky if you lost here, would be to simply reverse it. If you had AA, and they had AK, would you be lucky if you won? No, of course not. The best hand, again, won.) Now i'll ask you the same question. If you had AK, and they have AA, but the run-out is QJT, Q, Q, are you unlucky now? The answer should still be no, because when the money went in preflop, you were a MASSIVE underdog, and extremely unlikely to win. The odds of you winning when the money goes in, doesn't change depending on the board run-out. (4) No, as said, it's not a suckout. Because the money went in before the flop. The BEST hand won. If you were the guy with the Aces, and you get it all-in pre-flop, and he has AK, right? Your AA, vs my AK. And it comes QJT 2 2. Are you unlucky? Yes, of course you are. But if it comes QJT Q Q, are you suddenly lucky for winning the hand? NO. Because the best hand won! You got your money in good and you deserved to win, right? Which means you're NOT unlucky when you have it the other way round. You need perspective, because your brain has been completely poisoned by illogical post-rationalisations. Every time your money goes in you just take the point in the hand where you were the biggest favourite, and complain about how you could lose from there. People will start taking your posts more seriously when you provide some evidence. Until then, you're right, there's no real point in posting on here.
Posted by Smitalos

zzzz you sound and probably look like will from the inbetweeners

booboo5205 · January 2013

welcome to the poker
clinic

ZeroG · January 2013

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.:

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this. : (1) Of course there is no discussion here, because all you do every post is just whine about how you keep losing and getting "unlucky". How about you post these hands, show us some facts, back your claims up with EVIDENCE. Until you do so, your erratic stream of posts will be given zero credit, and so they should. Everyone gets unlucky, and sure, you're allowed to bemoan your luck, that's exactly what this part of the forum is for. But you're adding nothing to the discussion, and making incredulous assumptions with nothing to back it up. Post these hands that you're getting so unlucky in, or better yet, keep a track record in this forum of EVERY All-in you get yourself into, and then people will start to take interest instead of seeing you as someone throwing his toys out the pram every time they lose, and blaming it on others. (2) It was a friendly way of saying you're a recreational player. I've been playing for about 3 years, but I can almost guarantee I have a broader knowledge of the in's and out's of poker. That's not meant to be a brag nor an insult, i'm just trying to make a point. Just because you've played for a while doesn't make you the authority here. (3) Yes, i have PokerStove, and i know the exact odds. Again, as you seem to have totally missed the point, i was using that hand as an example to show you how biased you are towards your own luck. Re-read my post, PLEASE. IF YOU had AKo, and got your money in preflop, all-in, against 2 Aces. (AK v AA), and you lost, would you be unlucky? (The answer should be no, because the best hand when the money went in, won.) (Further proof that you're NOT unlucky if you lost here, would be to simply reverse it. If you had AA, and they had AK, would you be lucky if you won? No, of course not. The best hand, again, won.) Now i'll ask you the same question. If you had AK, and they have AA, but the run-out is QJT, Q, Q, are you unlucky now? The answer should still be no, because when the money went in preflop, you were a MASSIVE underdog, and extremely unlikely to win. The odds of you winning when the money goes in, doesn't change depending on the board run-out. (4) No, as said, it's not a suckout. Because the money went in before the flop. The BEST hand won. If you were the guy with the Aces, and you get it all-in pre-flop, and he has AK, right? Your AA, vs my AK. And it comes QJT 2 2. Are you unlucky? Yes, of course you are. But if it comes QJT Q Q, are you suddenly lucky for winning the hand? NO. Because the best hand won! You got your money in good and you deserved to win, right? Which means you're NOT unlucky when you have it the other way round. You need perspective, because your brain has been completely poisoned by illogical post-rationalisations. Every time your money goes in you just take the point in the hand where you were the biggest favourite, and complain about how you could lose from there. People will start taking your posts more seriously when you provide some evidence. Until then, you're right, there's no real point in posting on here.
Posted by Smitalos

I do not deny AK vs AA and the AA winning is right I agree with that. What I do not agree with is as you put it hitting the straght then the QQ hitting and them full housing it. The odds do not stack up for the amount of times it happens on here.

A 10 s goes all in against KK is is behind but the flop drops t dimons whic is the A 10 suit, one of which is a king. So the only way out is anothe diamond. Now, and this happens to me regualarly on here if I am the KK the diamond would hit I would say 60% of the time with hands i am in. Yet when the role is reversed that is not the case. It happens to much and too often.

I understand why so many people have private messaged me about this as the community is not ready to accept that there is action rigging going on, and they do not wished to be flamed like people continue to do to me when I posted about bad beats in the section entitled "brags beats and variance." This community is far from community. One person (and no I will not name names) contacted me stating they had been banned from the site. Want to know why? Becasue he could predict the next cards out from just his own two cards. Weather it be flop turn or river. This is becasue the programming behind the way in which the cards are dealt is just that a program. It works to routines, sub routines in a linear fashion. This was mentioned to sky and they banned him for it. He was not cheating, he figured out the system and got kicked for it. I think that speak volumes in itself.

You think you kow more about poker than me then fine I do not care what you wish to believe. I know I can play when all the action is straght and not squewed to such an exstent in favour of big stacks and certain players on the site.

It is so true that the winners will never agree with this and the loosers will always agree. Why becasue the winner will always win on the site and the looser will just feed them moeny.

As I stated before the easy way to solve this is for Sky to offer up all the statistics openly. I have mentioned this time and time again in this thread and yet for some reason still nothing.

On top of all this I will with almost 80% certainty state that the people that do not have a problem with the site have bank rolls in excess of I would say £1000. Which again makes it next to impossible for smaller bank rolls to get anywhere on here becasue the £7.20 buy in sat for tournements is about all they can reach to at there highest. You say play cash then. Well when you have people like tintin who openly admit raping the lower levels then what is the point your not going to get anywhere playing that level becasue people like him will just take your money time and time again with his bigger bank roll on which he can afford the variance. Why do you think other poker site have a lot cheaper buyins.

Anyway enough is enough. I will read replay to this however from here on in the only post I am putting up will be what I deem bad hands that I have been beaten by.

Thank for the less than construtive flaming and I hope you bankrolls last forever which I am sure they will if the newer player continue playing on sky poker so you can continue to take all there money.

ZeroG · January 2013

This is what make me question this site. 3 hands at different times on a single table. Same guy whenever I bet calls then shoves. Ever single time beats my hand by 1. So A8 I have he has A9, I have AQ he has AK I have 1010 he has JJ. This site is rigged full stop or people can see you hole cards. I went from having a 30% hit rate on satalites tonigth down to 10% that not variance thats fixed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

ZeroG · January 2013

Money out account closed.

percival09 · January 2013

lol goodbye. haven't done yourself any favours. gl on those non-rigged sites.

ZeroG · January 2013

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.:

lol goodbye. haven't done yourself any favours. gl on those non-rigged sites.
Posted by percival09

And you just show what this so called community is like. Someone who wins no doubt on this rigged site.

ZeroG · January 2013

Before they close the account fully here is a conversation I have had with the support operators here on the site. I find it funny that they cannot even supply this simple information request. There is no confidential information secured in it and just fuels accusation about the poker industry. You can draw your own conclusion from this and I have removed my real name for the sake of my own confidential information. I am sure some people will assume this is just rubbish as they have with everything else they refuse to believe.

Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000167 EndHTML:0000010107 StartFragment:0000000454 EndFragment:0000010091

says:06:44:59 PM

I know that still does not mean it is not rigged or people are cheating. I know you are regulated by the Alderney gaming commission as are most sites

says:06:46:04 PM

the only way in which I would even consider staying here is if information was provided so analysis by an independent party of hands to show that your site operates inside acceptable variance, which I do not believe it does

says:06:47:24 PM

sorry that english was not particularly good.

Lindsay M says:06:47:37 PM

If you want to review it if you go through the agcc they can look at it for you

Lindsay M says:06:47:56 PM

we are audited regularly by independent auditors

says:06:48:29 PM

if that is the case where are the results?

Lindsay M says:06:50:03 PM

AGCC get the reults

Lindsay M says:06:50:15 PM

*results

says:06:50:21 PM

again kept inside the poker gaming community

Lindsay M says:06:51:33 PM

Ok its up to you, you can contact AGCC if you like, do you want to keep your account open for now?

says:06:52:31 PM

they make there money from sites like this. Why would they do anything to jeopardise it. Which is why the only way I would play on this site is if the raw data was analysed independently outside of the poker community. As for the account no you can close it the money is out.

Lindsay M says:06:54:15 PM

Ok I will do that now for you, sorry you feel that way

Lindsay M says:06:54:26 PM

Your balance is £0

says:06:54:37 PM

If you can provide me with the data I have people at southampton university that are statistical analysis that can do the work as a favour for me

says:06:55:00 PM

I know my balance is £0 I cleared it before we begun this conversation

Lindsay M says:06:55:03 PM

Sorry but we cannot provide you with the data

says:06:55:10 PM

Can I ask why?

Lindsay M says:06:55:31 PM

If you had a balance I would have transferred the funds back to you, that's all

says:06:55:47 PM

I would be happy to sign a NDA as to not disclose the data outside of the required purposes

says:06:55:53 PM

and the why was about the data

Lindsay M says:06:57:49 PM

Unfortunately our external auditers is part of our gaming licence, for any individual who wishes to have their particular game looked at it is free of charge but you need to go through the agcc.

says:06:58:05 PM

I am interested as to why a company as big as sky is either unable or unwilling to proved data on poker hands played on there site for statistical analysis, by an independent party outside the poker fraternity.

Lindsay M says:06:58:25 PM

Its confidential information, even if you did sign a NDA we still couldn't, you can look at your own games through agcc

says:06:58:51 PM

what is confidential about hand on a poker table. i am not asking for personel information here

says:06:59:05 PM

if I was part of the hand I would know it anyay

says:06:59:13 PM

anyway*

Lindsay M says:06:59:54 PM

I cannot offer you anymore help on this other than to suggest you contact agcc

says:07:00:02 PM

funny that

says:07:00:09 PM

why am I not surprised

says:07:00:29 PM

could I ask that a transcript of this conversation be sent to my email address

percival09 · January 2013

lol she told you the same thing about 4320404024 times. stop wasting peoples time imo.

JSTFLIPPIN · January 2013

Everytime I question the integrity of this site my posts get deleted, not too sure but I doubt it's against the rules...

snorky · January 2013

Area 51 disappeared how much more proof do you need!!!!!

A site for conspiracy theories conspicuously disappears and no one knows where it is?

The truth is out there

unknown_username · January 2013

In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this.:

Money out account closed.
Posted by ZeroG

LOL

Smitalos · January 2013

> Refuses to post evidence of long periods of bad luck. (Hand Histories, Graphs, Tallying All-in EV)
/> Asks Customer Support where to find data regarding the sites processes. Ignores solution/deems it unacceptable.
/> Has multiple posters spend time and effort to engage in an in-depth discussion about why his beliefs may be misplaced, but sees them as cold, heartless, and patronising.
/> Still expects to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry man, you've had multiple options to figure this stuff out. Post Hand Histories, or contact the AGCC, but refuse both for no apparant reason than to fit with your own misplaced preconception that the site should bend over backwards for one unhappy customer.

If poker is making you this unhappy then don't play. If you want to keep playing but remain skeptical about the behind-the-scenes of the site, contact the AGCC or start posting some meaningful material that people can get behind. We can do no more.

Sky_Lee · January 2013

This is getting shut down folks before it gets out of hand.

I'll just remind you of a recent post in 'Poker Chat' about recent changes to the community..

we are removing ‘Area 51’. The main reason for this is that, as you know, we have a forum rule on Sky Poker which doesn’t permit “Comments that can be construed to question Sky Poker's integrity, game fairness, security or random number generation”. Area 51 is where people generally go to do this. Having it could almost be seen to encourage it. As you know, trust is very important to Sky Poker (and to you too). We are independently regulated and certified so calling our integrity into question can’t be allowed or encouraged. Any posts of this nature will be deleted and may result in a ban from the Community.