Another rake race - seriously?

The_Don90

Dear sky

can we please stop all the rake races already. I see another one is planned. Long term i think this has to be bad for your income. 

I'm all for good promotions, but can we have something that other people have a chance of winning. 

I know you said somewhere you are open to suggestions, is that still the case? 

robbie1992

Agreed, some fresh ideas needed.

Agree, with it needing to be fairer.  Its just a mini league for the people that multitable a lot of tables.

cgoldie

Yeah promo's are good but it really isn't great to be having the same one week after week as it targets very specific types of players. Would be nice to see a 4-8 rotation of different promo.

This one is targetted purely at cash game players who can put in a lot of multi table volume which isn't necesserilly what every wants to do, especially on repeat.

Would be nice to see some that are focused on:

--Regular Sng's (maybe finally get people playing them)

--DYM's

--MTT's
--HU Cash/Sng's
--Prizes for points

They don't necesserally have to be purely volume based, they could be like top winning streak on DYM's/Sng's, most final tables, most heads taken in a BH. Best ROI, best BB/100 over x games in a row. 

I like the one's that another site used to do that really included everyone where for every x points generated you got a random "scratch card" that gave you a random prize such as points, $1+ cash, electronics, freeroll entries.

Lambert180

I don't usually moan but all I can say is ffs.

These are SO bad for the site long term. That means over the last 4 (I think) promos which only spans about 6 weeks, there has been I think £20,000 given away just on rake races. I could think of SOOO many better ways of bringing in new players which is obv what any site wants.

VespaPX

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

Yeah promo's are good but it really isn't great to be having the same one week after week as it targets very specific types of players. Would be nice to see a 4-8 rotation of different promo. This one is targetted purely at cash game players who can put in a lot of multi table volume which isn't necesserilly what every wants to do, especially on repeat. Would be nice to see some that are focused on: --Regular Sng's (maybe finally get people playing them) --DYM's --MTT's --HU Cash/Sng's --Prizes for points They don't necesserally have to be purely volume based, they could be like top winning streak on DYM's/Sng's, most final tables, most heads taken in a BH. Best ROI, best BB/100 over x games in a row.  I like the one's that another site used to do that really included everyone where for every x points generated you got a random "scratch card" that gave you a random prize such as points, $1+ cash, electronics, freeroll entries.
Posted by cgoldie

+1

goldnballz

Wow, DTM must really have something on these sky poker bosses

belsibub

Said it all the last 2 promo's.
But seriously?2 promo's in the last 5 years for sit & go's (which again were virtual rake races most points & most hands inc mtt's) and cash get 4 in 6 weeks all rake races.Just just don't know what more to say.

Lambert180

And it's made EVEN worse by the fact it's number of raked hands seen and not rake paid/points earned. So it's gonna go straight back to what the other similar promo did, with stakes being irrelevant and it basically just being a contest of who can open the most tables for the longest time.

Anyone wanna take odds on how many players will just be 16+ tabling 4NL for that week? Not great when a promo encourages a bunch of 20/30NL regs to go and masstable the smallest stakes on the site so that....

1) Recs hate the games and dont play
2) Tables stop spawning so recs can't get a game
3) These regs pay Sky much less rake cos 10tabling 20NL has to be better rake paid than 16tabling 4NL.
4) No games will run higher up
5) This DOESNT encourage people to join the site

cenachav

Oh well. Was going to start learning cash again next month. Won't bother now. 

splashies

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

And it's made EVEN worse by the fact it's number of raked hands seen and not rake paid/points earned. So it's gonna go straight back to what the other similar promo did, with stakes being irrelevant and it basically just being a contest of who can open the most tables for the longest time. Anyone wanna take odds on how many players will just be 16+ tabling 4NL for that week? Not great when a promo encourages a bunch of 20/30NL regs to go and masstable the smallest stakes on the site so that.... 1) Recs hate the games and dont play 2) Tables stop spawning so recs can't get a game 3) These regs pay Sky much less rake cos 10tabling 20NL has to be better rake paid than 16tabling 4NL. 4) No games will run higher up 5) This DOESNT encourage people to join the site
Posted by Lambert180

The 1's that do this obv have a poor win rate, because if they put the same volume in at nl20/30 they'd earn more than the £300 promo prize.

I don't mind the promo, I'll just play my usual game and same hours. Don't see why people complain about it tbh, it's not as if you are losing out on anything. If you want to go for it, then go for it. If not, just get on with life.

REDARROW61

Very Big Sigh

rancid

"Players can win by being dealt into the greatest number of hands between 00:01 Monday 1st July until 23:59 Sunday 7th July."


Are you serious Sky, so your openly encourgaing people to open up as many tables as possible and fold.


going backwards arn't we ?

Can't this be changed so you have to see a flop ?

splashies

It is raked hands Rancid

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

It is raked hands Rancid
Posted by splashies

Yes but if you open 2000 NL4 tables hit fold on them all 1 other person limps and BB checks, boom there you go 2000 raked hands

splashies

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously? : Yes but if you open 2000 NL4 tables hit fold on them all 1 other person limps and BB checks, boom there you go 2000 raked hands
Posted by The_Don90

I've told you a million times, stop exaggerating!

SHANXTA

honestly, it's like you guys are surprised that Sky are making bad business decisions

looks like they've done something to try and stop DTM win more than one level though

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously? : The 1's that do this obv have a poor win rate, because if they put the same volume in at nl20/30 they'd earn more than the £300 promo prize. I don't mind the promo, I'll just play my usual game and same hours. Don't see why people complain about it tbh, it's not as if you are losing out on anything. If you want to go for it, then go for it. If not, just get on with life.
Posted by splashies

Yeah but you want weaker players on your tables right? The promo is not good for the long term sustainability of the player pool. 

One decent session 6 tabling gets you into the top 40. Ive said this before that proves that sky relies on a handful of players for a large percentage of their turnover from the cash side of the site. Its like the law of diminshing returns, all thats left is competent regs clicking buttons. Good luck to you thats all I say. 

Ive heard about your win rate splashies, fair play to you, no doubt you are one of the best at lower stakes. But surely you can see that to maintain this win rate you want new rec players joining the site, not other regs who improve and give you more of a hard time. 

These promos where a direct reponse to the new points system, which I dont care what anyone says is far worse than previous versions. I made priority 2 years ago and used to rake £340, last month I made £240 for the same level of points. 

guardsman1

Come on SKYPOKER how about a response ??

rancid

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

It is raked hands Rancid
Posted by splashies

Well if you have to see a flop than what is everybody's problem ?

Doesn't matter how many tables you load up, as long as it doesn't encourage people to sit and fold than it's not a problem.

If it encourages people to play more tables and see more flops than I think that is good for the cash games on Sky.

Just sounds like most people are just moaning cause it makes the games tougher and do not want to play versus 4 regs and 1 rec. You basically want to 6 table and every table to be you and 5 recs.


I have not seen any suggestions for promo's that would bring in new rec players ?
Offering more rakeback or added bonuses is what all sites do to bring in new customers.
Bottom line is, you attract new clients by offering something for nothing, these promo's do that.
You don't need to be the best, but you get a rakeback bonus, because that is what it is.
You can not base bonuses on performance, because new players are not winning players.

Imagine you a new player and wants to join a site, WHY PICK SKY ?
New players either go to a site because it offers more money back - like when you go shopping
Or the site has a special appeal.

sighcall

Can I just play devils advocate:

Skys View (I assume)

Profit on a normal week/weekend = £X

Profit on a cash promo weekend = £Y

Cost of Promo = £Z

Y-Z > X

All this about its bad for the playerpool the amount of people I know who make use of introductory offers sky give such as deposit 10 get 30 etc win some then just leave is taking money out of the poker economy. Wheras sky know that all the players that make the money in the promo will probably be here to stay. 

Also Lambert said something like no recs can find an nl4 game, surely this means sky is at its full capacity which can only be good? Also thes players may take a shot at NL8/10 instead which can only be good aswell.

End of the day sky arnt stupid running 4-5 of these in a row they have obviously calculated thats its profitable and im sure there will always be recs wanting to deposit £10 - £20 now and again dont think sky will be too worried about that. And sky arnt gonna do massive promos to people who deposit now and again to play NL4. 

Regarding the poker economy and the good of poker people on here may know more than sky but at the end of the day sky are only interested in $$$$$$ and i dont blame them!

sorry if this doesnt make sence in parts i was watching wimbledon whilst writing. lol

Lambert180

Rancid, it's how many raked hands that you played ANY part in.

So you sit there and folds 6 times. In them 6 hands, everyone else on the table played pots which were raked. You were DEALT into these 6 hands so get them counted in your tally. So yes folding is the order of the day.

The issue is that this won't attract new players because they have nigh on zero chance of getting a penny out of the promo. It's all based on number of hands dealt in basically, how many newbies sign up to a site and think 'hey I'm gonna 6+ table for 3-4 hours a night' because that's probably what you need to do to even appear in the top 20?

splashies

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

Rancid, it's how many raked hands that you played ANY part in. So you sit there and folds 6 times. In them 6 hands, everyone else on the table played pots which were raked. You were DEALT into these 6 hands so get them counted in your tally. So yes folding is the order of the day.
Posted by Lambert180

If you're silly enough to fold 6 hands every orbit, then you lose money lol. 

DOHHHHHHH

The only thing more boring than volume promos & rakeback in general is people moaning about volume promos and rakeback in general. 

Just adapt, the games are still amongst the softest around. 

Or play something else/elsewhere for a week

Zzz

BorinLoner

I'm sure I read this thread just a couple of weeks ago.

I also remember a thread started by the Don to discuss issues with promotions. Some very good suggestions (as well as some not so good ones) were made there and no response was forthcoming from any Sky peeps.

I won't waste any more of my time debating this today, since nothing will come of it.

rancid

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

Rancid, it's how many raked hands that you played ANY part in. So you sit there and folds 6 times. In them 6 hands, everyone else on the table played pots which were raked. You were DEALT into these 6 hands so get them counted in your tally. So yes folding is the order of the day.
Posted by Lambert180

This is what I was getting at, if it encourgaes folding on mult tables than this does not generate more rake for Sky and it does not provide good cash games to play in for recs or regs.

sighcall

lso just like to add as dohh said i think, if people ar just fold fold fold then tell me where they are sitting because they will be playing face up basically!!

Lambert180

SighCall - I'll never argue that this isn't profitable in the short term, of course it is, massively so. BUT it's terrible for the longevity of the game and the site. Most new players wanna sit down, have a bit of fun and play some poker, not sit down on a table full of the same 5 names that are on every other table and just get stacked over and over. If 3 weaker players are sat with 3 stronger players, there's a real mix of standards and play, and something for everyone. I've heard plenty of people (not regs) say in chat boxes that they hate sitting at cash tables seeing the same people on every table and know they're basically just being bum hunted on a larger scale.

These players may take a shot at 8NL/10NL but there are alot of people where that is just too much money on the line and they'll just choose to go play somewhere else.

splashies

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

The only thing more boring than volume promos & rakeback in general is people moaning about volume promos and rakeback in general.  Just adapt, the games are still amongst the softest around.  Or play something else/elsewhere for a week Zzz
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

THIS

I'm annoyed at myself for being annoyed at those who are annoyed with the promo.

beaneh

more rake races

listening to your customers

having a clue

how soon this thread will be closed so that no one can ever see a negative comment towards sky.

plucking

Lambert180

These regs can be beaten, but unlike them, I don't wanna drop down to 4NL just to win some promo, I wanna play my normal level, and I guarantee the number of tables running will plummet during this week. Of course they can be beaten, but the games are SO boring and with alot less value than non-rakerace times.

Meh, I cba discussing it anymore cos the discussion has happened 3 times already in the past 6 weeks and it's going no-where.

sighcall

In Response to Re: Another rake race - seriously?:

SighCall - I'll never argue that this isn't profitable in the short term, of course it is, massively so. BUT it's terrible for the longevity of the game and the site. Most new players wanna sit down, have a bit of fun and play some poker, not sit down on a table full of the same 5 names that are on every other table and just get stacked over and over. If 3 weaker players are sat with 3 stronger players, there's a real mix of standards and play, and something for everyone. I've heard plenty of people (not regs) say in chat boxes that they hate sitting at cash tables seeing the same people on every table and know they're basically just being bum hunted on a larger scale. These players may take a shot at 8NL/10NL but there are alot of people where that is just too much money on the line and they'll just choose to go play somewhere else.
Posted by Lambert180

In theory, what you are saying is correct, recs want a nice fun game. However where is the evidence to back this up?

As far as i can see sky has grown in the past few years! 

Also recs might not even notice these regs and as to say they will get stacked over and over i doubt this becuase these massive grinders wont be playing 100% optimally, infact the games may be nicer to play as people wont be sat there with a load of spewy players that could lead to frustration and eventually tilt and leaving the site. Instead they will get to play 'good poker' against solid players. Those recs who just want a gamble and not bothered about playing good poker im sure will be happy to risk a bit more and play higher levels. 

Just like to back my point up with something that someone said at a casino i was playing at, he said he moved to this casino because the play at the other casino was too many gamblers and spewy. So from this man aswell as most 2p4p just want a good evenings poker and playing against solid players whereswings will be less would be better than playing spewy players that will earn you more money over time but could lead to swings and peoople thinking 'sky is a joke' etc. and lest face it how many nl4 players are there to make money and how many are there just for a good night of poker.

again poorley written probably but hope u get the jist