Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal

PokerNoon

I'm guessing there are many people on here keen to escape the rat race. People who dream about waking up naturally everyday without setting the alarm, to manage their own time as they see fit, to get away from tedious 4 hour status briefings...

...this journal is for you.

My aim is to go from almost zero (where I am now) to making a full time wage by January 1st (I make that 19 days away). 

I would imagine there's a fair few of you making decent money from poker who think 'I'd love to make the leap, but it's such a risk', etc. I would love to make a success of this and hopefully inspire even one person to think 'well if this clueless newbie can do it, I'm sure I can.'

Background

I used to work in IT as a Business Analyst/Test Manager and left a rather cushy job to trade horse racing markets full time on Betfair (when I say full time, about 3 hours a day).

Now it's winter, the horse racing gets a lot quieter. In the summer there is a fully packed schedule from 2pm right up until gone 9pm most nights. However the evening meets are limited to a single all weather track (if that) in the winter. 

For some reason the average punter isn't that excited at the prospect of spending a freezing Tuesday evening in January shivering at the race track. Can't think why!

So given that I have a lot of free time right now, I decided to try and diversify my income and learn a new skill - poker. 

Current poker experience level

I'd never even played holdem before about 5 or 6 weeks ago. However I've thrown myself right in and pretty much become obsessed. Signed up to Advanced Poker Training and committed myself to play a minimum of 2000 practice hands per day, which I've kept up with, moreorless.

I thought this was a lot, until I was talking in the chatbox with Donttelmum earlier who was telling me he normally multitables 16-20 at once for 16 hours a day. So he plays more hands in a few days than I have played in a lifetime!

However, lack of experience aside, I think I'm good at learning new skills quickly and when I do decide to commit myself to something, I throw myself in fully.

I've probably gone too far with that as I now spend all day either playing for real, practicing, watching youtube videos of, or thinking about, poker. I even dream about poker most nights. Worrying really.

The Plan

I'm sure anyone with more experience than me (about 95% of you reading this) will be shaking your heads thinking 'so you expect to make a full time living from poker with less than 2 months experience? As if!'

You may well be right, but the good thing is that this for me is a low risk experiment. I'm not chucking in a job to make a living from poker, because I already did that to make a living from horse trading. The only thing I can lose is money at the tables.

Anyway...the plan.

I've been playing DYMs lately and doing ok. Today I made a £20 profit from about 12 or 14 DYMs (which wasn't bad considering most of them were £3.30 ones).

I also multitabled for the first time today. I'm sure for most of you this is second nature, but for me it required max concentration. I played 2 £5.50 DYMs and lost them both. But then I played 2 more at once and cashed in them both. I class that as progress, but I may well have just been lucky.

Aim is to build bankroll enough to progress to £11 and then £22 DYMs and see if I can handle life at the higher stakes. If not, grind at £5.50 which I'm confident I can be profitable at.

So my goal is simple:

I aim to make a minimum £50 profit daily from DYMs on Sky Poker by January 1 2014. 

I realise this is not a huge wage, but it is enough for one person to live fairly comfortably off. Once that is sorted, I will look to build from there.

I will update most days on my progress.

Apologies for the lengthy and self obsessed first post. If you made it this far down, full marks to you. All comments good and bad welcome. However know that if your intention is to simply say 'this is stupid, impossible and a waste of time' then I thank you for your input, but I have already made my mind up to do this so it makes no difference.

Constructive criticism/advice/input always appreciated though. Thanks for reading!

rancid

Normally you would calculate your win rate across a large sample (6 months or even 12 months)
Then you can gauge if you can make a living.

Whatever you acheive in the short term means nothing.

You need to concentrate first on building a bankroll and sustaining that BR. Then you may be in some sort of position to see if you can make x amount per month.
The x amount you need to make per month to cover your life spends just may never be acheivale at the level you play.

One step at a time, beat the lowest level first and build a roll to play poker with.

rainman397

Good evening Pokernoon
To get more experience for very little money try the afternoon DEEPSTACK @2.20 FOR £2.20.
LOTS OF GOOD PLAYERS AND VERY FRIENDLY, SOMETIMES TOP PRO,S AND CELEBRITIES JOIN IN.
All the best
Rainman397 

THEROCK573

good luck with this mate!!!

you face a difficult task with the little experince you have  but if you put the effort in to learn the game properly then poker is nothing that you cant pick up and be succesfull at. any questions  then just fire away on here because lots of players allways willing to help.

as a big gambler myself im quite interested in your job as a trader on betfiar, what is it you do exactly?

ACEGOONER

In Response to Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

I'm guessing there are many people on here keen to escape the rat race. People who dream about waking up naturally everyday without setting the alarm, to manage their own time as they see fit, to get away from tedious 4 hour status briefings... ...this journal is for you. My aim is to go from almost zero (where I am now) to making a full time wage by January 1st (I make that 19 days away).  I would imagine there's a fair few of you making decent money from poker who think 'I'd love to make the leap, but it's such a risk', etc. I would love to make a success of this and hopefully inspire even one person to think 'well if this clueless newbie can do it, I'm sure I can.' Background I used to work in IT as a Business Analyst/Test Manager and left a rather cushy job to trade horse racing markets full time on Betfair (when I say full time, about 3 hours a day). Now it's winter, the horse racing gets a lot quieter. In the summer there is a fully packed schedule from 2pm right up until gone 9pm most nights. However the evening meets are limited to a single all weather track (if that) in the winter.  For some reason the average punter isn't that excited at the prospect of spending a freezing Tuesday evening in January shivering at the race track. Can't think why! So given that I have a lot of free time right now, I decided to try and diversify my income and learn a new skill - poker.  Current poker experience level I'd never even played holdem before about 5 or 6 weeks ago. However I've thrown myself right in and pretty much become obsessed. Signed up to Advanced Poker Training and committed myself to play a minimum of 2000 practice hands per day, which I've kept up with, moreorless. I thought this was a lot, until I was talking in the chatbox with Donttelmum earlier who was telling me he normally multitables 16-20 at once for 16 hours a day. So he plays more hands in a few days than I have played in a lifetime! However, lack of experience aside, I think I'm good at learning new skills quickly and when I do decide to commit myself to something, I throw myself in fully. I've probably gone too far with that as I now spend all day either playing for real, practicing, watching youtube videos of, or thinking about, poker. I even dream about poker most nights. Worrying really. The Plan I'm sure anyone with more experience than me (about 95% of you reading this) will be shaking your heads thinking 'so you expect to make a full time living from poker with less than 2 months experience? As if!' You may well be right, but the good thing is that this for me is a low risk experiment. I'm not chucking in a job to make a living from poker, because I already did that to make a living from horse trading. The only thing I can lose is money at the tables. Anyway...the plan. I've been playing DYMs lately and doing ok. Today I made a £20 profit from about 12 or 14 DYMs (which wasn't bad considering most of them were £3.30 ones). I also multitabled for the first time today. I'm sure for most of you this is second nature, but for me it required max concentration. I played 2 £5.50 DYMs and lost them both. But then I played 2 more at once and cashed in them both. I class that as progress, but I may well have just been lucky. Aim is to build bankroll enough to progress to £11 and then £22 DYMs and see if I can handle life at the higher stakes. If not, grind at £5.50 which I'm confident I can be profitable at. So my goal is simple: I aim to make a minimum £50 profit daily from DYMs on Sky Poker by January 1 2014.  I realise this is not a huge wage, but it is enough for one person to live fairly comfortably off. Once that is sorted, I will look to build from there. I will update most days on my progress. Apologies for the lengthy and self obsessed first post. If you made it this far down, full marks to you. All comments good and bad welcome. However know that if your intention is to simply say 'this is stupid, impossible and a waste of time' then I thank you for your input, but I have already made my mind up to do this so it makes no difference. Constructive criticism/advice/input always appreciated though. Thanks for reading!
Posted by PokerNoon

£50 a day equals £1500 per month/£18000 a year. Just looking at the maths you would need to turn over £550 worth of dyms, say 55 x £11 or 110 x £5 if your roi was 10%(which is a solid win rate). Each game takes up to 45 mins, so six tabling will give you around 9 games per hour. You can see clearly this is not a part time thing!

Dont expect to have an roi of 50%, that simply isnt possible. On the other threads IDCU suggested £22 dyms are softer than lower stakes, simply not true. 

Things are never as simple as they seem at poker. GL though!

 

 

PokerNoon

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

Normally you would calculate your win rate across a large sample (6 months or even 12 months) Then you can gauge if you can make a living. Whatever you acheive in the short term means nothing.
Posted by rancid

Thanks, but I don't have any kind of sample size, so I'm just going to crack on and see what happens.

Tikay10

Good luck with this Mr Noon.

Chris_Mc

i think why not give it a go, you know its low risk and have too start somewhere so all the best with the challenge that lies ahead.

 i aim to do something similar but not on that scale. 

i deposit small amounts and watch it go over a few days, ill play dym's then some sat's then some more bigger mtt's. i love the game but find it difficult to cash regulary in mtt's.

my plan is too start with £50 and simply be in profit of that by a month, o dont care if its £51.. just more than i started with and try to grow a br that i can start playing more higher stakes games.

i have a young family and work 40hrs a week i can not afford too take a bigger risk... one day as many people would dream of mabye but not yet anyway.

as for the multitables ... it wont take u long to get used to it, if your playing so many hands a day it will get easier, i struggled with 2 for a while, but didnt take me long to be playing 3/4 comfortable with mixed games .. stt mtt and cash. id say stick with one varient and youll manage much more especially on dym's where you should (i think) mainly just be playing solid startimg hands.

all the best and god luck.

now im only a beginer myself, learning alot from the forum and trying to improve my game everyday. and it worth listning and taking the advice especially from the above comments and the more common playeres on the site.

rancid

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : Thanks, but I don't have any kind of sample size, so I'm just going to crack on and see what happens.
Posted by PokerNoon

yeah good luck, just don't base 1 months play on how you going to perform across the next 5 months - poker doesn't work like that.

Jac35

Hi Pokernoon

Really nice opening post to this. Good luck with your goal.

I spend most of my time on Sky, playing the £5.50 and £11 Dyms.

I guess that I'll be seeing a lot of you.

I'll send you a PM tomorrow with a couple of things that you might find useful.

PokerNoon

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : yeah good luck, just don't base 1 months play on how you going to perform across the next 5 months - poker doesn't work like that.
Posted by rancid

Yeah, I understand. That said if I did base it on my first month's P/L figures I would be quitting the game, since I am currently in the negative. I am however led to believe that DYMs are lower variance than most forms of poker, so I have one thing in my favour if nothing else.

I genuinely have no idea if this a ridiculous and deluded goal, but it's one of those endeavours that has little downside. Even if I fail, my game should still improve a lot.

PokerNoon

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : Yeah, I understand. That said if I did base it on my first month's P/L figures I would be quitting the game, since I am currently in the negative. I am however led to believe that DYMs are lower variance than most forms of poker, so I have one thing in my favour if nothing else. I genuinely have no idea if this a ridiculous and deluded goal, but it's one of those endeavours that has little downside. Even if I fail, my game should still improve a lot.
Posted by PokerNoon

Thanks to all - Tikay, if you want to have me on the show as a guest expert, then just say the word. My fee is...£50 per day

Chris - one reason I quit my job when I did is that I was single with zero dependents for the first time in a long time and thought 'it's now or never'. To do something like I'm doing in your position where you have others to provide for would be nothing short of irresponsible. At least in my case it's only me that's in the mire if it all goes badly.

AceGooner - the one worry so far is that my ROI has been much higher than the 10% which I'm told is considered good for DYMs. That indicates that I am either some kind of genius, or that variance has been going in my favour. I'm going to assume it's the former

Jac35 - Thanks and your PM will be more appreciated. Even more appreciated is if you can let me win in any games you see me in

To all - there is a strong chance I will come out of this looking like a total idiot. But it should be interesting if nothing else.

PokerNoon

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

good luck with this mate!!! you face a difficult task with the little experince you have  but if you put the effort in to learn the game properly then poker is nothing that you cant pick up and be succesfull at. any questions  then just fire away on here because lots of players allways willing to help. as a big gambler myself im quite interested in your job as a trader on betfiar, what is it you do exactly?
Posted by THEROCK573

Just to reply to this - I hope I don't get accused of being here to promote myself as this is now the 4th post I've mentioned my blog in, but people keep asking about it... have a look at betfairtrading.co.uk. That's my personal blog, although I haven't updated it in a bit.

Basically I trade the odds in horse racing markets on Betfair in a very similar way to stock market trading. Identify which way the market is moving then back/lay accordingly. Are you familiar with Betfair?

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : Just to reply to this - I hope I don't get accused of being here to promote myself as this is now the 4th post I've mentioned my blog in, but people keep asking about it... have a look at betfairtrading.co.uk. That's my personal blog, although I haven't updated it in a bit. Basically I trade the odds in horse racing markets on Betfair in a very similar way to stock market trading. Identify which way the market is moving then back/lay accordingly. Are you familiar with Betfair?
Posted by PokerNoon

no you shouldnt get accused of anything, this is a diary afterall so its good your sharing a bit about urself other than ur poker journey.

yeah im familiar with betfair, wouldnt have a clue about how to do what you do though, im just ur average mug punter blowing away a fair bit of his hard earned every week. all good fun though.

CraigSG1

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

i think why not give it a go, you know its low risk and have too start somewhere so all the best with the challenge that lies ahead.  i aim to do something similar but not on that scale.  i deposit small amounts and watch it go over a few days, ill play dym's then some sat's then some more bigger mtt's. i love the game but find it difficult to cash regulary in mtt's. my plan is too start with £50 and simply be in profit of that by a month, o dont care if its £51.. just more than i started with and try to grow a br that i can start playing more higher stakes games. i have a young family and work 40hrs a week i can not afford too take a bigger risk... one day as many people would dream of mabye but not yet anyway. as for the multitables ... it wont take u long to get used to it, if your playing so many hands a day it will get easier, i struggled with 2 for a while, but didnt take me long to be playing 3/4 comfortable with mixed games .. stt mtt and cash. id say stick with one varient and youll manage much more especially on dym's where you should (i think) mainly just be playing solid startimg hands. all the best and god luck. now im only a beginer myself, learning alot from the forum and trying to improve my game everyday. and it worth listning and taking the advice especially from the above comments and the more common playeres on the site.
Posted by Chris_Mc

Hi Chris. Just a quick point for you as a beginner. Why not try playing standard SnG's rather than DYM's. You can learn a lot more about the different skills you need and these transfer much better to MTT's. Plus you can get that buzz from winning too!

Craig. 

CraigSG1

Good luck Mr Noon. 

bbMike

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

Hi Pokernoon Really nice opening post to this. Good luck with your goal. I spend most of my time on Sky, playing the £5.50 and £11 Dyms. I guess that I'll be seeing a lot of you. I'll send you a PM tomorrow with a couple of things that you might find useful.
Posted by Jac35

CC, cheers, thanks.

Good luck at the tables Mr Noon.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : CC, cheers, thanks. Good luck at the tables Mr Noon.
Posted by bbMike

CC?

You've lost me Mike.

Check, call?

bbMike

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : CC? You've lost me Mike. Check, call?
Posted by Jac35

Sorry, cc: carbon copy, copy me in, send it on!

peter27

Interesting challenge, and I like the idea! Keep us updated :-)

Jac35

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : Sorry, cc: carbon copy, copy me in, send it on!
Posted by bbMike

I'm a dunce

OHIMGOOD

No sick pay, No holiday pay,No pension scheme, one bad day could wipe out 1 weeks profit,

Very brave, goodluck...

VickiPKR

No sick pay, No holiday pay, No pension, 1 bad day can wipe 1 weeks profit, very brave an good luck 

An not many want to quit work to play poker 10 hours a day, but many want to win the WSOP an live the good life . But 10 hours of poker a day? Keep it.

goldnballz

Great read, love the look of the blog. Will defo read it in full over the weekend.

Very best of luck in your challenge!

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

No sick pay, No holiday pay, No pension, 1 bad day can wipe 1 weeks profit, very brave an good luck  An not many want to quit work to play poker 10 hours a day, but many want to win the WSOP an live the good life . But 10 hours of poker a day? Keep it.
Posted by VickiPKR

no boss to answer too, no early mornings, no set hours, making good money playing a game you love. only one winner imo

VickiPKR

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : no boss to answer too, no early mornings, no set hours, making good money playing a game you love. only one winner imo
Posted by THEROCK573

Like I said the absolute best of luck to the OP, I couldn't do it as quite frankly with me and my partner working no way am I capable of matching my Salary in poker winnings and I'm also very lucky as I work flexitime.

I can go in at 5am if I want to be finished early mid summer, I can go in at 11am if I want a lie in or if I want to go to the gym early. But the best of luck and run good to all who have the skill to make a living from poker. Check my Sharkscope I've gone from a huge £23 profit to around a £10 loss on this site in 2 days.

I'm still going to go to Vegas twice a year and live UK casinos like DTD with my fella monthly though in the hope of binking millions.

unknown_username

This is a level.

Curt360x27

In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:

This is a level.
Posted by patwalshh

I really do hope so for OP sake

VickiPKR

Did I read that right?

You played 2 DYM's and lost them both, you then played 2 more and cashed them both and you think that's progress? You lost money over the 4 games. You do realise this?

You played 4 games of poker, lost money and decided it would be a good idea to do it for a living?

QUICKFEET

Interesting diary... one to follow

If you were a horse, the odds on you achieving this would be about 100,000/1

But have fun and dream the dream... that's poker for the majority of us

Lambert180

Jeez people being a bit harsh. Ofc winning 2 and losing 2 means we lost on rake, but it's not like 4 games is a great sample lol, plenty of people play for a living and you could take a fragment of their results where they've lost 4 out of 4, does that mean they can't win? And I'd say he's not expected to instantly be a winning player after like a couple of weeks of learning the game.

By the sounds of things, he already makes a living from sports trading so attempting to add some income from poker isn't the be all and end all, it's not like he's saying he's given up work to make a living from poker. His income is sports trading, now he wants a few quid from poker on the side, no different from someone whose income is from working a 9-5 in an office and wants to make a few quid from poker on the side.

FWIW, DYMs at the low levels on here aren't the hardest things in the world to beat (that's not to say it's easy). If you have the right attitude/mindset and are willing to put in the work, I think with a bit of intensive coaching/help you could easily turn someone into a decent winner at £5 (and under) DYMs in like a week or two.

If you have a 5% ROI at them which is very do-able then that's 55p profit per £11 game (long term) so 90 games per day to make £50. Add to that, you probably wouldn't need to actually make £50 per day from the games cos you'd probably be making roughly £20 per day (averaged over the month) just in C4P*, so he only needs to make £30 from the games per day... so about 70 games

*70 games per day @ £1 rake = 700 points per day. 30 days = 21,000 = about £600

It's not like it's an out of this world goal, and by the sounds of it, it's not like he won't a decent income anyway even if he only ends up making £10 per day or w/e, that's still £300 per month before the 600 rakeback.

GL