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Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal

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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ
    edited January 2014
    MagicMern is a professonal coach who runs a DYM training site.

    It might be worth bearing that in mind when considering his advice. Just saying.
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  • PokerNoonPokerNoon
    edited January 2014
    Gah!! Just typed a long reply and got timed out...AGAIN! Must start saving my posts before hitting submit.

    Anyway, I'll try again.

    First of all, thanks for all your suggestions and comments. MagicMern - thanks for your PM - I'll reply shortly.

    To respond:

    - I'm not massively interested in taking training that teaches ABC poker. I'm trying to create my own style that isn't easily recognisable or easy to play against. Even at this stage of my development, I feel I can quickly spot people playing ABC (especially in DYMs) and exploit the predictable nature of it. Think about it - if you have 4 regs and 2 newbies playing a DYM, the regs are all playing super safe until they hit the bubble, waiting for the newbies to make a mistake. If the newbies don't make a mistake, or get good cards, or get lucky...then the regs have to compete with each other. If they are all playing the same way, it then essentially comes down to luck. 

    - In line with the above, I could do what DTM does and play 20 micro stakes tables at once and make good money playing ABC. While I totally respect what he does, it doesn't interest me in the slightest. The game is totally different at higher levels, so I don't see the point of playing and playing at micro levels to then say 'ok, I've nailed this'...then step up and have to learn a totally new game. I'd rather just start by learning the new game.

    - I also have to think about what will keep me motivated. The mental challenge of figuring out how to beat players like TommyD and MattBates is exciting to me. Playing against clueless types who want to limp every single hand and call every single bet...that is not exciting to me and I just find it irritating.

    - I see the £500 a month as an expense, like any other legitimate business outgoing, in this case a training budget. However I do like the idea of getting an expert as a mentor or similar. Perhaps I'll pay £50-100 of the £500 to pay an expert to review my hand history and advise me of improvements. That will certainly help my game to progress more quickly. As far as I'm concerned, this is no different to investing my money in a university course. However unlike any university courses, I have the potential to make money while I am doing it.

    - I don't think HUDs work with Speed Poker (I've never got them to work anyway). Reason being that every time you fold you are immediately taken to a new table. So the HUD cannot see how the hand plays out afterwards, hence cannot collect the data. 

    Comments/suggestions welcome. I recognise that most people have spent more time in the game than me here, so you may be able to point out any blind spots in my logic that I can't see.
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  • PokerNoonPokerNoon
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    Hello Pokernoon. Do you ever do any trading on the golf odds? I would have thought there'd be decent chance of good returns due to the big odd fluctuations that go on. GL with the poker
    Posted by jdsallstar
    Hi JD. Short answer is no. I don't know enough, or have enough interest in golf to be able to work this.

    One thing I know some people do reasonably successfully in golf though is to pick around 10 outsiders that are in decent form, who like the course, have a decent history there etc. Then they bet on each one with the hope that the player gets a good start in the competition.

    After the first round, if they have a good start, their odds will have come in massively. At this point they can easily trade out for a profit. Worth playing around with that if you like your golf.
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  • MagicMernMagicMern
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    MagicMern is a professonal coach who runs a DYM training site. It might be worth bearing that in mind when considering his advice. Just saying.
    Posted by GaryQQQ
    That maybe so Gary, but I am not even a cash player, let alone a cash expert, may i suggest to Noony that if he wants some cash game help to PM "Timmyrara" on here - he is a good cash player and will give him some pointers.
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  • MagicMernMagicMern
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    I'm not massively interested in taking training that teaches ABC poker. I'm trying to create my own style that isn't easily recognisable or easy to play against. Even at this stage of my development, I feel I can quickly spot people playing ABC (especially in DYMs) and exploit the predictable nature of it. Think about it - if you have 4 regs and 2 newbies playing a DYM, the regs are all playing super safe until they hit the bubble, waiting for the newbies to make a mistake. If the newbies don't make a mistake, or get good cards, or get lucky...then the regs have to compete with each other. If they are all playing the same way, it then essentially comes down to luck.  
    Posted by PokerNoon
    I understand your thinking Noony, but if you really are a beginner at poker (last month or so), then you must learn to walk before you can be Usian Bolt...

    The best DYM players out there don't just play ABC poker. Indeed, I would argue till the cows come home that the regulars aren't all playing the same sit back and fold style, especially versus each other. They will adapt their games for all kinds of different scenario's.

    But my point is, you must learn the foundations first, even if that is 60p DYM or 1p cash, and not just learn them but engrave them on your brain, so that you can develop your own style from there. 

    If it irritates you that a bad player is limping and playing badly in a DYM, this is worrying - as that is what you want. Afterall, you want to win at poker right? Or do you just want to play like a fish and try and get lucky against the big boys?

    Take the advice of the guys here Noony, and learn to win first, and then develop your own style.


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  • ALFIE123ALFIE123
    edited January 2014
    Ay up Mern.  Ru bored of 888 and now going to show everyone on sky how to be the main man
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : Hi Ivan, Cheers for the reply, you kinda proved a major point of my post though - you played at 2p/4p first and assumabley crushed it and moved up. This is better than going into zoom/mid stakes with no hud and little experience no?
    Posted by MagicMern
    The difference is I had no disposable income when I began playing. £50 a month was the most I could possibly afford so I had no choice but to learn from the bottom up. If you have the disposable income to play higher level, then that should naturally increase your ability quicker than if you were to start playing at a lower level. If PokerNoon finds out he is getting slaughtered in these games then it might be a good idea to consider stepping down to a level with a much better shot at becoming a winning player.

    This being said £500 a month isn't an awful lot if you are going to be playing 50NL. I recently just had a 10BI downswing at 50NL over a few days which would be your whole roll for the month gone! What I'd suggest (if you want to play cash) is maybe playing 20NL-30NL for half-2/3 of the month. If you have been succesful then for the latter part of the month you can maybe consider playing some 50NL. If you have a bad downswing/things don't go your way then it's not too long till the next month anyway and you can invest another £500. If you haven't been succesfull at 20-30NL then stick at it till the end of the month. 

    As others have pointed out we should be happy when we are playing players that are limping and doing lots of other bad stuff. But we need to prove it by beating these players as well!

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  • MagicMernMagicMern
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : The difference is I had no disposable income when I began playing. £50 a month was the most I could possibly afford so I had no choice but to learn from the bottom up. If you have the disposable income to play higher level, then that should naturally increase your ability quicker than if you were to start playing at a lower level. If PokerNoon finds out he is getting slaughtered in these games then it might be a good idea to consider stepping down to a level with a much better shot at becoming a winning player. This being said £500 a month isn't an awful lot if you are going to be playing 50NL. I recently just had a 10BI downswing at 50NL over a few days which would be your whole roll for the month gone! What I'd suggest (if you want to play cash) is maybe playing 20NL-30NL for half-2/3 of the month. If you have been succesful then for the latter part of the month you can maybe consider playing some 50NL. If you have a bad downswing/things don't go your way then it's not too long till the next month anyway and you can invest another £500. If you haven't been succesfull at 20-30NL then stick at it till the end of the month.  As others have pointed out we should be happy when we are playing players that are limping and doing lots of other bad stuff. But we need to prove it by beating these players as well!
    Posted by F_Ivanovic

    Agree with what you are saying Ivan, i just get the "feeling" that Noony wants to "mix it" with the big boys and the super tactical plays a bit too soon. It sounds like the lower stakes bore him, but the fact remains that he needs to seriously know what he is doing if he is to play at the levels he craves, else he will be that drunk guy in the casino surrounded by solid players that he described earlier in the thread.

    Heck don't we all though - I would love to play a cash game with some high stakes pro's, it would be fun and I "might" get lucky and win, but long term, they would slaughter me. I just feel that Noony should get some proven success under his belt before taking his "shot" at the limits that he desires.

    Look forward to the PM Noony.

    Alf, check your inbox!
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  • Jac35Jac35
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : Agree with what you are saying Ivan, i just get the "feeling" that Noony wants to "mix it" with the big boys and the super tactical plays a bit too soon. It sounds like the lower stakes bore him, but the fact remains that he needs to seriously know what he is doing if he is to play at the levels he craves, else he will be that drunk guy in the casino surrounded by solid players that he described earlier in the thread. Heck don't we all though - I would love to play a cash game with some high stakes pro's, it would be fun and I "might" get lucky and win, but long term, they would slaughter me. I just feel that Noony should get some proven success under his belt before taking his "shot" at the limits that he desires. Look forward to the PM Noony. Alf, check your inbox!
    Posted by MagicMern
    Magic
    I think the advice you have given is sound. I'm sure you can also understand why people may be a little suspicious of your motives in your first post.
    I think it's difficult to advise someone without first knowing their circumstances, and secondly, what they want to do with their poker. I'm a Dym reg on here but I'd never advise someone to play Dyms if they weren't interested in them.
    I've played thousands of them now and in the main, enjoy them. I can see though that to some players, Dyms are the most boring kind of poker imaginable.

    Be good to see you post more
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave
    edited January 2014
    A friendly reminder from Sky on this thread - those looking offer advice/tutoring services for themselves or 3rd party sites isn't permitted. Please bear this mind as anyone found in breach will have their accounts closed.

    Thanks,
    Dave
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  • PokerNoonPokerNoon
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : Agree with what you are saying Ivan, i just get the "feeling" that Noony wants to "mix it" with the big boys and the super tactical plays a bit too soon. It sounds like the lower stakes bore him, but the fact remains that he needs to seriously know what he is doing if he is to play at the levels he craves, else he will be that drunk guy in the casino surrounded by solid players that he described earlier in the thread.
    Hear what you're saying but respectfully disagree.

    If you want to improve, you have to play with better players at levels that challenge you. I'm not saying I'm going to jump into the highest stakes - will probably start with 25/50 and see how I get on.

    If I'm trying really hard to figure out why people are beating me, and change my game appropriately, then I will improve fast. Totally different to the drunk guy getting his willy out all the time and throwing his chips everywhere. He's not trying to improve, he just wants a gamble. His only method of winning a pot is 'I'll try to bully you off it, and if you stick with me, I'll hope to hit a good hand'.

    Speaking of DYMs, I do find them quite boring - I'm going to stick with the cash route and the occasional MTT for now.

    Speaking of MTTs, I made final table of a £22 BH this afternoon, which I was fairly pleased with. Made a stupid mistake on the very first hand of the FT and lost nearly half my chips. From then on I was the shorty, and never recovered. But until that point, I feel I barely put a foot/hand wrong. I was pleased mostly with my improved patience this time - it took at least half an hour until I got any sort of hand, then when I played it I was able to take all someone's chips, a nice bounty and never looked back.

    Next goal is to actually win one of these things. Have to say that the most enjoyable form of the game for me is MTTs by far.
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  • PokerNoonPokerNoon
    edited January 2014
    Been a while since I updated this.

    Improved/improving a lot.

    Consistently profitable on cash tables now - tonight I made £60 in an hour played 2 20nl tables. I did run nicely, but I felt like I was extracting value from my good hands pretty well.

    MTTs improving - on Friday I entered a £11 BH. Was in the top 5 for a lot of the contest and took 5 heads. Went from 2nd to finishing 69th in the space of about 5 hands. Bit disappointed when I was thinking I had a chance of a tasty cash, but never mind. Still took £25 from that tourney, so a profit nonetheless.

    Also won the £2.20 'rainman deepstack' last week, which was pleasing.

    So all in all, I'm not making the £50 a day, but I'm getting there.

    BR up to £260 from the initial £25 I put in.
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  • MP33MP33
    edited January 2014
    Sent u a PM m8
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited January 2014
    dyms are boring but a good way to build ya bankroll they dnt make my heart beat faster or get a rush from the game only way i get a lil bit excited about playing dyms is if i play like 8 tables at a time

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    dyms are boring but a good way to lose ya bankroll they dnt make my heart beat faster or get a rush from the game only way i get a lil bit excited about playing dyms is if i play like 8 tables at a time but then the site crashes and I quit the site again
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    fyp ;)
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited January 2014
    haha
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  • KazukoKazuko
    edited January 2014
    I used to work in IT as a Business Analyst/Test Manager and left a rather cushy job to trade horse racing markets full time on Betfair (when I say full time, about 3 hours a day).

    Id be interested to know more about this, how successful have you been, do you feel there is still value in learning this?

    Would it be a worthwhile pursuit for someone wishing to diversify from poker back the other way?




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  • KazukoKazuko
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    A friendly reminder from Sky on this thread - those looking offer advice/tutoring services for themselves or 3rd party sites isn't permitted. Please bear this mind as anyone found in breach will have their accounts closed. Thanks, Dave
    Posted by Sky_Dave

    Can you expalin this a bit more please.

    Do you mean a sky player can't coach other players? 

    Or is the restriction limited to videos of live sky play, such as used in most training sites?

    Thanks
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  • SlykllistSlykllist
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal:
    I used to work in IT as a Business Analyst/Test Manager and left a rather cushy job to trade horse racing markets full time on Betfair (when I say full time, about 3 hours a day). Id be interested to know more about this, how successful have you been, do you feel there is still value in learning this? Would it be a worthwhile pursuit for someone wishing to diversify from poker back the other way?
    Posted by Kazuko
    I have a friend who does this for his full time income, he also runs a website and training courses.  PM me for details if interested.
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