Collusion - Our Approach

lovelyrach

OK , to whoever is deleting the posts that I write, when I am complying with your t and c's! 

A forum is supposed to be an open and fair way of people openly discussing points of interest!

I have an interest in poker and feel that I should be able to air my views! 

I have not been derogatory to the sky poker brand, game fairness or any other t+c.

I can air my views on other forums where you can't reply, where you can't have your views, backing up your arguments

Slipwater

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

OK , to whoever is deleting the posts that I write, when I am complying with your t and c's!  A forum is supposed to be an open and fair way of people openly discussing points of interest! I have an interest in poker and feel that I should be able to air my views!  I have not been derogatory to the sky poker brand, game fairness or any other t+c. I can air my views on other forums where you can't reply, where you can't have your views, backing up your arguments
Posted by lovelyrach

All right, so let's hear it... keeping in line with the terms and conditions.

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

OK , to whoever is deleting the posts that I write, when I am complying with your t and c's!  A forum is supposed to be an open and fair way of people openly discussing points of interest! I have an interest in poker and feel that I should be able to air my views!  I have not been derogatory to the sky poker brand, game fairness or any other t+c. I can air my views on other forums where you can't reply, where you can't have your views, backing up your arguments
Posted by lovelyrach

Hi there - correct, views can absolutely be expressed so long as they comply with our forum rules. If you are not familiar with them, you can see them here.

Thanks

Sky Poker

lovelyrach

I feel that sky poker could have nipped this in the bud a lot earlier than they have done, I feel the evidence is there in black and white with various information available at a click of a button on various other foripum sites. 

Its just my opinion and am sure that they do take collusion seriously, like the time I had my money refunded to me after collusion took place in a game that I played. 

I don't really care what reasons are behind any collusion that takes place or what stakes are being played, collusion is cheating and feel that not only a lifetime ban is sufficient but should be brought to the attention of the authourities

lovelyrach

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

I feel that sky poker could have nipped this in the bud a lot earlier than they have done, I feel the evidence is there in black and white with various information available at a click of a button on various other foripum sites.  Its just my opinion and am sure that they do take collusion seriously, like the time I had my money refunded to me after collusion took place in a game that I played.  I don't really care what reasons are behind any collusion that takes place or what stakes are being played, collusion is cheating and feel that not only a lifetime ban is sufficient but should be brought to the attention of the authourities
Posted by lovelyrach

Still here after 30 seconds its looking good

lovelyrach

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

I feel that sky poker could have nipped this in the bud a lot earlier than they have done, I feel the evidence is there in black and white with various information available at a click of a button on various other foripum sites.  Its just my opinion and am sure that they do take collusion seriously, like the time I had my money refunded to me after collusion took place in a game that I played.  I don't really care what reasons are behind any collusion that takes place or what stakes are being played, collusion is cheating and feel that not only a lifetime ban is sufficient but should be brought to the attention of the authourities
Posted by lovelyrach

Wow still here after a minute! Its looking good

BigBluster

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

Again, we deal with all cases of collusion....................
Posted by Sky_Poker

Unfortunately you are not being seen to be dealing with it. The integrity of sky poker is being impugned across the entire poker community and what people are seeing is dithering and indecision.

I know little about personal cases and care even less, but this has gone on long enough. Whatever you're going to do, get on and do it.

This dithering wouldn't have happened under Murdoch!

Slipwater

I think the term 'evidence' is being thrown around far too loosely - either that or some folk don't seem to know the definition of the word.

There's an opinion for you, Marley

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

I feel that sky poker could have nipped this in the bud a lot earlier than they have done, I feel the evidence is there in black and white with various information available at a click of a button on various other foripum sites.  Its just my opinion and am sure that they do take collusion seriously, like the time I had my money refunded to me after collusion took place in a game that I played.  I don't really care what reasons are behind any collusion that takes place or what stakes are being played, collusion is cheating and feel that not only a lifetime ban is sufficient but should be brought to the attention of the authourities
Posted by lovelyrach

Hi Lovelyrach

We cannot discuss individual cases, as we have said before. We do also use information that has been brought to our attention, where relevant along with our own information, stats and systems. But just to repeat, and as you said, we do take collusion seriously. We do act too, we can assure you of that. 

Have a good evening.

Sky Poker

lovelyrach

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

I think the term 'evidence' is being thrown around far too loosely - either that or some folk don't seem to know the definition of the word. There's an opinion for you, Marley
Posted by Slipwater

Have you even seen the so called evidence?

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Unfortunately you are not being seen to be dealing with it. The integrity of sky poker is being impugned across the entire poker community and what people are seeing is dithering and indecision. I know little about personal cases and care even less, but this has gone on long enough. Whatever you're going to do, get on and do it. This dithering wouldn't have happened under Murdoch!
Posted by BigBluster

Unfortunately BigBluster, and given our stance on not discussing individual cases, people do not necessarily know what we have done or are doing. There is speculation of course, no matter what the facts on what we do. We can also assure you that there is genuinely no 'dithering or indecision'. There is however, in all cases, proper and fair processes to follow. As said earlier in the thread, fairness and correct decisions are of utmost importance to us.

neil1970

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Unfortunately you are not being seen to be dealing with it. The integrity of sky poker is being impugned across the entire poker community and what people are seeing is dithering and indecision. I know little about personal cases and care even less, but this has gone on long enough. Whatever you're going to do, get on and do it. This dithering wouldn't have happened under Murdoch!
Posted by BigBluster

this just about hits the nail on the head,the longer this sagy runs on the worse its making the site look ....i for 1 just wana hear the end of it .

Slipwater

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Have you even seen the so called evidence?
Posted by lovelyrach

Yes.

Next question.

lovelyrach

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : this just about hits the nail on the head,the longer this sagy runs on the worse its making the site look ....i for 1 just wana hear the end of it .
Posted by neil1970

 

I'm a little unsure whether I want to hear the end of it to be honest, 

I have always played poker in a honest way, and in an ideal world would like that to be the case for everybody but when there is money involved, some people like to create an edge!

I would hope that sky poker just doesn't put an end to this but inform relevant authorities, serious consequences need to be put in place and followed through to deter anybody from future instances

lovelyrach

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Yes. Next question.
Posted by Slipwater

What is your view? Just asking because you seem to have short sarcastic views on anybody with an opinion.

Next sarcastic reply?

mrsmarley

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Yes. Next question.
Posted by Slipwater

Ok I don't know you I don't know if you are in any team etc......but all the evidence I have seen,and you allude to of seen is pretty conclusive,I have also seen a post on here from the guy admitting it but saying it was not his fault but some nasty men made him do it...if the evidence was posted from a sky poker chat log you would probably say the same as me but as its from Facebook you don't want to believe it....if those shots are not enough evidence for you then you will never believe that cheating goes on..

Slipwater

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : so mate i take it you think this is a complete scam and hitman is free from blame?
Posted by neil1970

Thanks for telling me what my belief is, Neil, but that's not really your position is it? I've not said one way or the other what my thoughts on the matter are. I'm merely trying to stop the lynch mob.

RLT16

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : this just about hits the nail on the head,the longer this sagy runs on the worse its making the site look ....i for 1 just wana hear the end of it .
Posted by neil1970

Rightly or wrongly, Unfortunately due to sky's policy of not discussing individual investigations or the outcomes of those investigations it's highly unlikely that the end is going to come soon, for all we know the investigation has already been concluded but they can neither confirm or deny this. 

A question for you sky poker, what harm is there at the end of investigations in cases where the person(s) are found guilty in posting saying "today (insert screen names here) were banned from sky poker after being found to have colluded in (insert tournament name and id here) as part of sky security's ongoing plans to tackle collusion/multi accounting. All parties involved in said game will recieve there buy ins back in due course and you can rest assured we are doing all we can do prevent these occurrences in te future"  

I actually feel that is well worded and you have my full permission to use that as a template if you so wish

I understand why you cant do this for people found to have not been breaking the rules  hence why these matters are normally best dealt with out of the public eye i suppose

neil1970

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Thanks for telling me what my belief is, Neil, but that's not really your position is it? I've not said one way or the other what my thoughts on the matter are. I'm merely trying to stop the lynch mob.
Posted by Slipwater

you have lost me lynch mob ? i would call it derail....

Slipwater

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : What is your view? Just asking because you seem to have short sarcastic views on anybody with an opinion. Next sarcastic reply?
Posted by lovelyrach

They're only sarcastic when they need to be.

Neither of us are judge or jury in this matter, so my opinion (because you seem to want it) is that we should leave it to those who are. I think that's the sensible approach.

lovelyrach

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : They're only sarcastic when they need to be. Neither of us are judge or jury in this matter, so my opinion (because you seem to want it) is that we should leave it to those who are. I think that's the sensible approach.
Posted by Slipwater

Yes that would be the most sensible approach, but I honestly think that (I am not saying for definite that this guy colluded) going forward poker sites should be more transparent into he way that the deal with cheating.

It would take a fool to think that cheating doesn't exist , its just that I feel that poker sites try to sweep it under the carpet, to avoid bad press and embarrassment to themselves

GELDY

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : They look pretty conclusive imo. This is my last post on this thread. Anyone in the know will know that there's been certain"tensions" between certain teams. Now one member of these teams has been caught cheating so blames it on the other team trying to catch him out. My opinion is he cheated,got caught,and members of the other team pounced on this fact. Still cheating though...... Good luck all
Posted by mrsmarley

this is probably the most balanced comment on this thread - if only the rest were at this standard

to be fair to slippy, there is a bit of a lynch mob mentality to many of the comments. there have been unfortunate examples of collusion here in the past. they seem to get dealt with by SkyPoker quite ruthlessly. and we move on. but on this occasion there are plenty of people trying to drag the name of skypoker through the mud for their own ends. that is what is so annoying about this occasion. they are doing much more harm to skypoker than the incident in question, yet they feel it is their right to do so. they may have knocked £100million off the value of skybet by their behaviour (if the multiple declines from 15x EBITDA to 13x). that could lead to a massive decrease in investment in the business, and all of us skypoker players will suffer. in my mind their action is reprehensible, and much more repugnant than the initial offence.

let skypoker sort this out and get ready to celebrate another problem successfully solved

churchy18

This is turning into a real shambles what will new players think coming onto what is supposed too be a warm friendly and inviting community only too find this thread and the many others relating too it.. all just with people tearing strips of others and just making things worse!

I don,t know anything about this other than what i have read on site so don,t know the ins and outs of it all the same as most on here so probably best let sky get on with it and deal with it in the way they see fit.

Pretty sure they probably do this in the background more than we will know!

Maybe this thread could get moved too a different section maybe feedback as most new players will more than likely click poker chat on they,re 1st visit onto the forum and this is what they will find is this really what we want new players seeing?

That way anyone that wants too continue posting can do so there.

All the best brian

F_Ivanovic

People keep on complaining that this is being dragged out but the person involved made false claims against another player on this site as well as trying to claim he was "set up" which given the evidence that everyone has seen couldn't be further from the truth. The way said person has acted since the allegations is possibly just as bad as the collusion itself.

Had this not happened, then this matter would not have left skypoker and been plastered across various forums as it has been.

VespaPX

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : this is probably the most balanced comment on this thread - if only the rest were at this standard to be fair to slippy, there is a bit of a lynch mob mentality to many of the comments. there have been unfortunate examples of collusion here in the past. they seem to get dealt with by SkyPoker quite ruthlessly. and we move on. but on this occasion there are plenty of people trying to drag the name of skypoker through the mud for their own ends. that is what is so annoying about this occasion. they are doing much more harm to skypoker than the incident in question, yet they feel it is their right to do so. they may have knocked £100million off the value of skybet by their behaviour (if the multiple declines from 15x EBITDA to 13x). that could lead to a massive decrease in investment in the business, and all of us skypoker players will suffer. in my mind their action is reprehensible, and much more repugnant than the initial offence. let skypoker sort this out and get ready to celebrate another problem successfully solved
Posted by GELDY

+1 to this

susansue

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Well thank you but,I don't think it's about trying to drag skypoker down its more about stamping out cheating. For me there is one option you cheat,you get a lifetime ban no ifs no buts. People keep saying let sky sort this out but to me they are saying it is sorted..I.e.they have had 6 weeks to investigate and banned one player for collusion..by the very meaning of the word it takes two to collude. I think it's ok to say they have investigated and the matter is now closed they people will know what the outcome is. To be fair you should be worried how much sky might lose in invested business but how much you may Les if you are playing on a site that favours one cheat above another.. If the guy had any moral decency he would fall on his sword for the sake of his beloved sky poker and his team  Instead of making out its a big joke and nothing to fuss about..
Posted by mrsmarley

Yep saw this on another site he was making a big joke on a few postings about this topic ,

i think its a case of i am capt marv f u jack .

MaN Up and do what sky should have done and shame on your team  baaaaaaaa  for not booting you out .

shakinaces

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : this is probably the most balanced comment on this thread - if only the rest were at this standard to be fair to slippy, there is a bit of a lynch mob mentality to many of the comments. there have been unfortunate examples of collusion here in the past. they seem to get dealt with by SkyPoker quite ruthlessly. and we move on. but on this occasion there are plenty of people trying to drag the name of skypoker through the mud for their own ends. that is what is so annoying about this occasion. they are doing much more harm to skypoker than the incident in question, yet they feel it is their right to do so. they may have knocked £100million off the value of skybet by their behaviour (if the multiple declines from 15x EBITDA to 13x). that could lead to a massive decrease in investment in the business, and all of us skypoker players will suffer. in my mind their action is reprehensible, and much more repugnant than the initial offence. let skypoker sort this out and get ready to celebrate another problem successfully solved
Posted by GELDY

Dare I suggest that this is the reason this continues to spiral out of control.

Historic cases of (relatively) unknown players breaking the rules of the game have resulted in swift action being taken, but at this point in time (appreciating I'm only getting my facts from 2+2 forums) it would appear that there are different rules applied if there is the possibility that one of the more colourful, well known characters on the site may have broken the same rule.

I know I'm generalising here but I believe most people dislike double standards, which is why there is such a vocal response from a growing number of players on the site.

FWIW I'm surprised Sky didn't take the short-term measure of invoking their own T&C during any investigations:

"We reserve the right, in addition to other measures, to restrict seating and/or to prohibit customers from playing at a particular poker table or in a tournament"

Which arguably would have given them the chance to take their time with their investigation and ensure they come to the right decision (whatever that may be) without this growing amount of negativity floating around the poker community in the interim.

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach:

In Response to Re: Collusion - Our Approach : Dare I suggest that this is the reason this continues to spiral out of control. Historic cases of (relatively) unknown players breaking the rules of the game have resulted in swift action being taken, but at this point in time (appreciating I'm only getting my facts from 2+2 forums) it would appear that there are different rules applied if there is the possibility that one of the more colourful, well known characters on the site may have broken the same rule. I know I'm generalising here but I believe most people dislike double standards, which is why there is such a vocal response from a growing number of players on the site. FWIW I'm surprised Sky didn't take the short-term measure of invoking their own T&C during any investigations: "We reserve the right, in addition to other measures, to restrict seating and/or to prohibit customers from playing at a particular poker table or in a tournament" Which arguably would have given them the chance to take their time with their investigation and ensure they come to the right decision (whatever that may be) without this growing amount of negativity floating around the poker community in the interim.
Posted by shakinaces

Hi shakinaces, thanks for your post.

We can assure you that we do not have double-standards.

We deal with cases impartially and that is the best way.

Thanks

Sky Poker

susansue

Seems to be sorted now his profile and team are gone 

lets move on .

The_Don90

Am i the only one getting pretty bored of the debate.

Also for those saying the facebook chats are clear cut, skys in a pretty sick spot with that. If they accept that evidence which can be taken in different ways as discovered when ive had debates with others, then they have to take facebook messages as evidence in future. 

Since this incident ive been added by many fake accounts of one of the members related to the current high profile case. Theres know fraud on facebook relating to stealing a pic adding people etc. how easy would it be to say ok i dont like lambert (using paul as an example) so i create a new lambert facebook add some friends. Put him in a similar spot, snap take a screenshot and report it - Paul in this spot is 100% innocent despite evidence saying otherwise