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how should we spend OUR money?

smiler271smiler271
edited April 2010 in The Shed


OK folks,
I know this is NOT poker related, but hey ho, I will try and get your feedback on this anyway....
as i have said in anoter thread of mie, I have been struggling to focus with my exam revission and dissertation research lately, its soooooo hard with so many distractions around ONE BIG one being Sky Poker, So i decided to combine the 2 JUST THIS ONCE!!! LOL.

1st of all, hope your all having a wonderful Easter break from work  or study or just having a nice weekend in general......
 So, picture this scenario.....

20 young offenders, all costing tax payers a ball park figure of 10,000 a head per year, ( Totaling amount spent for one year £2million) and thats JUST for TWENTY young people, we have a higher rate of young offenders here in the uk than just 20 a year thats a fact... ( feel free to research just how many we have each year here in the UK if you want LOL ) ..... so my question is this, do we continue to pay 2 mil per year for the rest of OUR lives or do we invest a ONE of payment of £ 6 million to put a good source of prevention and rehabilitation in place for these young people?
What gives the governemnt the right to constantly take our money week in week out and pour it into an bottomless pit of cash for the justice system.... OK so the sum of £6 mil seem a LOT doesnt it, BUT think about it for a sec, we are paying 2 mil a year now, and im 37 yrs old, still have a good few years here on earth ( God willing) say an average of another 40 years, so IF we ALL live for this time, thats another 40 years of our £2 million a year into this justice mess up, OOPS I mean Justice system, or a ONE OF payment of SIX million.. WELL I KNOW Which one would make sense to me over all.....
Should we as a state pay more into prevention of youth crime?
Should we put more into rehabilitation of 1st time offenders?
or Should we keep building new jails to house these young folk, some who are only serving as little time as 6 months upwards, ( in jails though, REHABILITATION Classes etc are ONLY offered to 12 mnth +) so these REPEAT offenders continue to drain away our taxes as the judge only gives them a small/short sentece, OK THATS NOT the fault of the judge, as he /she has guide lines to follow BUT the young person is on a cycle of offend, jail, out , probation, fail to attend, or reoffend, jail, out etc etc etc ** NOTE** I am NOT saying this is the case for ALL Youth offenders though! so dont beat me down for that statement PLEASE :)

so tell me, shud we build more jails, or put more into the system to rehabilitate or prevention of crime in 1st place??

ALL opinions will be read carefully , im intrigued to get a GENERAL PUBLICS opinion on this matter.
I dont wanna here what you think is POLITICALLY corect answers though!!! I would greatly appreciate what your TRUE feelings on this are


( please note that the figures/costs i added are JUST a figure, I know that they are a lot less than actually spent or needed.)


I KNOW this is NOT poker related in anyway.......but its still a gamble with mine and your money each day.


THANK you  in advance for your replies


Kind regards and good luck with your game


Smiler





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Comments

  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    one quick note to keep in mind when you vote, PLEASE ONLY SAY the "bring back hanging" comment IF YOU REALLY mean it!! LOL
    we are talking about 16 year olds up to 21 year old young people here....... Hang them REALLY???

     Thanks for your votes so far, dont forget to comment to though..... let me know your views, opinions and,...well anything at all on this topic really is helpful to me

    cheers

    smiler
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2010

    I dont see how any of this effects my life. Im terrible with stuff like this, coz I genuinely do not care...lol

    Lock em up !!!! 1diots! :)

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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    1: I dont see how any of this effects my life. Im terrible with stuff like this, coz I genuinely do not care...lol Lock em up !!!! 1diots! :)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    1: well your taxes pay for all new jails, your taxes pay for all new rehabs centres and your taxes are thrown away on dat excursions for offenders who may use and abuse the system, while your working hard to earn a wage, the powers that be arrange jollys for so may young offenders, and class this as a form of rehabilitation, but it obviously aint working thogh

    as for not carig, well i didnt either, untill i had to look into it more
    IT IS BORING on the surface, but also has a massive affect on OUR daily lifes, just thik what YOU could do with the extra cash YOU would save over the years on less tax etc!!  OK OK OK I KNOOOOW IT makes me seem like a nerd BUT I am JUST a student TRYING to do some research while playing a few games of poker ( lol sneaky way to allow me to do both when i only wanna do 1 LOL)

    Lock em up.... ok I will take that as your view, Maybe one day you may see that as needing to be changed? LOL
    ooops is that me trying to coerce you to vote for a different answer ? OOOPS NOT ALLOWED in this research!


    cheers  for your reply

    MUCH appreciated!!

    :)
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2010

    Im sure this is the same on alot of issues though? - Im still gonna pay the same amount of tax, what they do with it doesnt really bother me. 

    If they go down the route u are suggesting, and save money there, who will benefit? - They wont say " now we have saved a few quid, we will charge you less tax" - or will they?

    Poker is tax free anyway. lol :)


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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited April 2010
    Well, you really have bitten off more than you can chew this time----Just you wait till blackfish hears about this!!!
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  • AIRWALKERAIRWALKER
    edited April 2010
    IMO Kids were no angels when i was young but now the badly behaved kids are very violent and have no remorse or mercy. Some kids take great joy in destroying peoples lives. Kids were leathered in my day at school and at home for intolerable behaviour and not spoiled. They quite often had jobs to earn pocket money. The less well off kids had nothing, now they have wide screen tellys and computers and playstations and they get everything on a plate. As kids, we were made to feel like we were the least important people in a room as the adults and the elderly had all the respect. Not now. That, i think, is the key problem.

    I think that more jails should definitely be built with our money by the hard labour of those convicts who are in them. Made for prisoners and built by prisoners. It will teach them a bit of a trade and get them used to work whether they like it or not, and make them pay with sweat for what they have done wrong to society. They should be given no electrical equipment at all in their cell except the light switch. If they suffer they might not want to return and instead of spreading it around their mates that it is like a fortnight in Barbados they might say that it is bad news resulting in potential jailbirds thinking twice before committing bad crimes. They only listen to each other.. They should have no rights except to be protected from violence from others. If they behave they should be let out on time (not early) if not' stay inside until they do. They should call the officers Sir. They just laugh their socks off at some hippy trying to change their mindset.
     
    Kiids are growing up unpunished, no religion, no father figure, no right from wrong and not forced to behave listen and learn, spoilt, and regarded as far far too important. Even the police are forced to kiss their ar..ses. The adults and pensioners are just branded as has beens and buffoons. Alas until this changes neither will society. 

    LOCK EM UP AND DO THEIR POOR NEIGHBOURS A FAVOUR.
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  • emilyeggemilyegg
    edited April 2010
    excellent post Airwalker.......and if the crimes are kiddie-fiddling or mugging old ladies then a bullet in the back of the head would do it for me. every time.
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  • AIRWALKERAIRWALKER
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    excellent post Airwalker.......and if the crimes are kiddie-fiddling or mugging old ladies then a bullet in the back of the head would do it for me. every time.
    Posted by emilyegg
    ++++1....CHEAP 'N' CHEERFUL LOL

    I totally agree with you emily.....Fantastic that you have come back. Dont go again pal.
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  • Mr_MiyagiMr_Miyagi
    edited April 2010
    If they want to be in gangs and have guns so much, put them in the army and have them do something constructive.


    Maybe like in the Southpark movie "operation human shield" but instead of coloured people it could be young offenders and such.


    Just an idea.
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited April 2010
    no religion---lol---lol---what the flup do you think thats got to do with it???----eh?----eh?   all those nasty little athiests with their athiest hoodies, a non existent, all seeing entity would sort the little fluppers right out!!!!!
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  • AIRWALKERAIRWALKER
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    no religion---lol---lol---what the flup do you think thats got to do with it???----eh?----eh?   all those nasty little athiests with their athiest hoodies, a non existent, all seeing entity would sort the little fluppers right out!!!!!
    Posted by oynutter
    Nowadays i can choose what to believe in, but when i was young i was in a church going family.

    Church taught us help others, be thankful for what we had, to consider other people, to help old people and  neighbours, to be non violent, right from wrong, a sense of good community, non racism.......the list is endless. This was all done without guidance from outside influences of school or home or mates.

    Whether god exists or not is irrelevant. What are most kids ( especially English ones ) being taught now?

    All good people are t..oss..ers, get in a gang, hate crime, learning at school is for geeks, Asbos is the new george cross, God squad nutters are weirdos, Shoot em ups, gangster rap, Do what you want the adults and police won't do owt. Cyber bullying, Happy slapping, your mates are your family, dont let people diss you lol ......shall i go on. They are pathetic little selfish beings that will only change with age...i hope lol.

    All the really bad youths have all the above in common. I would rather send my kids to somewhere like church than have them tramping around the streets or constantly living a different life to me locked in their bedrooms with computers God or no God.
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  • AIRWALKERAIRWALKER
    edited April 2010
    Just for the record, i have not sent or taken my sons to church. I have brought them up to respect others,family and their property and have come down very hard on them for acting in any other way. There has always been one King in my castle and thats me. I go to other peoples houses and their kids own the place that their parents pay for. This leads very quickly to a total breakdown of respect. If kids don't have to show respect to their own parents and family then why should they respect anyone else?

    I have let them do what they want as long as they keep to these rules. Fortunately it has worked but i know that other parents have a battle every day to control their teenage kids.
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited April 2010
    "Church taught us help others, be thankful for what we had, to consider other people, to help old people and  neighbours, to be non violent, right from wrong, a sense of good community, non racism."

    The church taught you to be a normal human being did it?-- I wonder what you were before that happened?
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited April 2010
    Imo, you can't blame the kids for anything whatsoever, and it is extremely short-sighted to do so----children learn according to their environment.

      How many of these "gangster rap" kids come from sevenoaks--- eh?-- ghetto's exist in your green and pleasant land, and they were not made by the fluppin kids!!!!

    Nice respectable kids come from cul de sacs in sussex, but, guess what---- I once knew one that came from Moss side in manchester, mind you, his daddy had a job, and bought him a book called "how to be nice", otherwise he would probably have joined a gang and shot a policeman for a laugh---- well it was a very boring place you know.

    If you had done nothing wrong in your whole life, ever, and some bunch of flupwit dongbats sent you to live in a concrete pile of poo, with no hope of ever getting out,  how much exactly would you respect them?

      Our precious kids are treated like sewage in these places, and we deserve everything we get from them, just for making them live there!!!

     Respecting a society that treats you like a sewer rat, is in fact, quite difficult, even for an adult, so why the flup should we expect kids to do it??
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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    Well well,.... I see i have started a GOOD debate here, THANK YOU ALL for your feedback, I need to read all comments in detail oppose to scan reading them all, and I will reply to each and every one of them, REMEMBER Though that I am impartial in this I AM JUST needing your feedback and answers for some stuf for uni...
    I do have an opinion But I am MEANT to keep it to myself, however after quickly reading a few of these replies, I MAY have to express my opinion after all,

    Keep the comments coming though, be as open and honest as possible, ignore trying to be 100% PC though Please, i need YOUR opinion NOT the one that society expects you to have

    THANKS again guys


    Debbie
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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    Well, you really have bitten off more than you can chew this time----Just you wait till blackfish hears about this!!!
    Posted by oynutter

    More than I can chew?? erm YOU THINK SO?? why?
    Am i to take it that Blackfish is some type of voice here on these here threads? lol I thought it was for all to add to without being policed by other posters and the topic being an open subject too....
    so Blackfish,...erm..... he gonna add to this one then?

    And what makes you think I am out of my depth with this one then?

    Do you have any idea just how much I have studied this topic? OR how much I have a good understanding of it on ALL aspects, Monetary, social, political, and subcultural angle too.
    So PLEASE feel free to keep adding your opinions, but if you need to leave such comments that try show I am out of my depth, then please inform  me why you think this.....cheers :)

    Happy Easter


    Debbie 
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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    Im sure this is the same on alot of issues though? - Im still gonna pay the same amount of tax, what they do with it doesnt really bother me.  If they go down the route u are suggesting, and save money there, who will benefit? - They wont say " now we have saved a few quid, we will charge you less tax" - or will they? Poker is tax free anyway. lol :)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    LOL  VERY well put DOHHHHHHH, 
    I guess if we all live in a poker filled life and never have to step outside that type of bubble, then it wont affect any of us, BUT what happens when you are on the way to your bank to withdraw your major winnings and get mugged? or your banks robbed at the same time your inside, what would your  opinion be then?  ( LOL IM JUST TRYING TO Get your opinion on this question, im to stubbor to let it go with out one LOL )

    so, what if we were to have our tax's reduced? what if we were to see more in our wage packet each month? what if young offenders were less and less each month/year due to this prevention ruling or rehabilitation rulings etc..... we would have less of the crimes folk are speaking of, less guns on corners etc that they speak of on here , and maybe less muggings, robberies and we could AL eventually live in a whole nicer place .....
    IT would NEVER happen over night, but reduce crime with prevention, rehabilitation or education tactics, COULD make us all live in a safer world, OK OK I KNOW adults are resposible for MANY crimes too, but for the purpose of this topic I am speaking of the youth crime, the ones who are the adults of the future, The ones who will be adults when we are in our pension years..... would you prefer to live in a safer world, one that didnt have to keep building jails for young  people and over all we would feel safe in our homes..... OR do we just lock em ALL up despite their crime!

    GO ON..... dig deep and give me an opinion DOHHHHHHH  LOL


    cheers :)



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  • emilyeggemilyegg
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money? : More than I can chew?? erm YOU THINK SO?? why? Am i to take it that Blackfish is some type of voice here on these here threads? lol I thought it was for all to add to without being policed by other posters and the topic being an open subject too.... so Blackfish,...erm..... he gonna add to this one then? And what makes you think I am out of my depth with this one then? Do you have any idea just how much I have studied this topic? OR how much I have a good understanding of it on ALL aspects, Monetary, social, political, and subcultural angle too. So PLEASE feel free to keep adding your opinions, but if you need to leave such comments that try show I am out of my depth, then please inform  me why you think this.....cheers :) Happy Easter Debbie 
    Posted by smiler271
    They are only winding you up about Blackfish3.......He is studying law as well. ;0)

    Good Post though.....I will give it until tea-time before a human rights supporter chips in.....to tell us that the offenders are the real victims in all of this.


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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    excellent post Airwalker.......and if the crimes are kiddie-fiddling or mugging old ladies then a bullet in the back of the head would do it for me. every time.
    Posted by emilyegg
    OK OK I see your point with these specific crimes, HOWEVER if you look at the reply i sent to DOHHHHHHH you can see that I am talking of a society that COULD eliminate such crimes, I say COULD and NOT would remember..... if we were to work more on prevention, or work harder on education and install such things as respect for ones self and for others into todays youth as soon as possible, install good morals... if we do as much as we can and STILL these crimes are taking place, well ok i agree with you,..... But have you ever wondered why crimes such as theft, robbery. car crime/thefts etc take place, ( remember I am ONLY talking about young people here NOT adults who commit crimes) well so many young folk commit crimes for such reasons as  KNOW NO BETTER= can be altered with edication and prevention tactics, Have no choice ( as in petty theft for food OR EVEN drugs/alcohol) = this could be improved with edication to us all as a state, or with the illness of drug addiction alcoholism etc being addressed and not just being swept under the carpet, we should be looking at the cause of these issues, ALL issues have a root cause. Dont ya think?
    All issues have a cause and cure.... so maybe a bullet in back of ones head would make one problem go away AFTER the crime, but how about working on this BEFORE the crime is  commited?
    I would rather have no blodd on my hands and no crimes being commited or maybe realisticly I should say LESS crimes being commited than popping a shell in someones head.....wouldnt you?


    The state as a whole is in just that, a state..... I THINK ( for the purpose of this topic) that we need to be treating the cause of the problem and not bolting the gate after the horse is out.....


    I best stop there cos I could go on for ages here... for e.g MANY reports are made and new rulings brought about only AFTER such horrific crimes are comitted against chilren, pensioners etc BUT IF These rulings to look at the case were in place BEFORE hand, then would that not be better ALL ROUND?

    I look forward to your reply


    Happy Easter

    Debbie
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  • emilyeggemilyegg
    edited April 2010
    Sadly Young People DO commit the awful crimes I mention......Too much money is wasted on futile rehabilitation efforts (imho)

    Bet the re-offending figures are high.........

    Good money going to waste.
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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    IMO Kids were no angels when i was young but now the badly behaved kids are very violent and have no remorse or mercy. Some kids take great joy in destroying peoples lives. Kids were leathered in my day at school and at home for intolerable behaviour and not spoiled. They quite often had jobs to earn pocket money. The less well off kids had nothing, now they have wide screen tellys and computers and playstations and they get everything on a plate. As kids, we were made to feel like we were the least important people in a room as the adults and the elderly had all the respect. Not now. That, i think, is the key problem. I think that more jails should definitely be built with our money by the hard labour of those convicts who are in them. Made for prisoners and built by prisoners. It will teach them a bit of a trade and get them used to work whether they like it or not, and make them pay with sweat for what they have done wrong to society. They should be given no electrical equipment at all in their cell except the light switch. If they suffer they might not want to return and instead of spreading it around their mates that it is like a fortnight in Barbados they might say that it is bad news resulting in potential jailbirds thinking twice before committing bad crimes. They only listen to each other.. They should have no rights except to be protected from violence from others. If they behave they should be let out on time (not early) if not' stay inside until they do. They should call the officers Sir. They just laugh their socks off at some hippy trying to change their mindset.   Kiids are growing up unpunished, no religion, no father figure, no right from wrong and not forced to behave listen and learn, spoilt, and regarded as far far too important. Even the police are forced to kiss their ar..ses. The adults and pensioners are just branded as has beens and buffoons. Alas until this changes neither will society.  LOCK EM UP AND DO THEIR POOR NEIGHBOURS A FAVOUR.
    Posted by AIRWALKER

    INTERESTING point indeed.....

    I Think the build jails point is great, get the offenders to build their own jails is an interestiong poiint indeed... THANK YOU for this.
    However, I want to add something to this point,....what if we got the young offenders to build such things as their own accomodation to live in, there own place/farm to work on to make a small income? what if we gave them an alrternative to crime? would that help at all ? what do you think?

    as for the lack of respect etc for elders, I AGREE....but after doing some study of this over the past few years, I have seen that many parents are also as much to blame, some have their young teens engaging with activities that they do themselves and see no wrong it it, do we as a nation see this as right? cos it goes on in the home with parents there, is that right? OR is it just teaching more and more for the youngster to see as right behaviour when we ALL know that it is not right at all.
    By right i mean, do we see it ok for our teens to lay in bed all day, claim benefits when they have no real reason to be doing this? They learn how to "FIDDLE " the state from their parents, they see how to fiddle and con each other from parents too ( I MUST STATE THAT I DO NOT MEAN IN ALL FAMILIES HERE..... AND ONLY ON A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF FAMILIES does this happen, BUT looking at roots of issues, i think we could all look at the parent culture to brush of on our teens and younger still)

    I am NOT saying that we are all bad parents and we are ALL to blame for youth crime NOT AT ALL!!!!!

    BUT I am saying that all actions have a root cause....
    So agreeing with your self build topic, MAYBE if we gave them somewhere to live, something to do to earn a legal income, and made it an issue of installing moral and self respect into them,MAYBE that could help in the years to come??

    As for some hippie TRYONG to change their mindset, well MAYBE you have seen this with your own eyes, BUT I KNOW as many othrs do that we do not THINK WE CAN CHANGE THEM, we work them hard to enable them to change themselves.... IF THAT dont make any difference then YES , JAIL is then used as a punishment ( NO way am i saying we need to give them an easy option 1st, or a cushy number etc NOT AT ALL, ) we need to show them that respecting others AND themselves is the way forward.

    I have worked woth so many young people that are labelled by the comunity as NO HOPERS so they give up in trying, they give up in bettering themselves and give up trying to change their life to be anything other than the same astheor parents etc etc, BUT after so much taunting and MEDIA causing a moral panick, these young people give up, but not due to lazyness, but cos so many brick walls ( members of community who judge, label and assume) stand in their way,m that their mind set goes in the direction of "well they think i am ........so i might as well give them reason to think i am ......." THIS IS where the danger kicks in, danger in loosing that young person to crime and an unruly lifestyle.....


    I AGREE with your point in when in jail using the word Sir, and when in youth work programmes, having rules to obide by and also give them more responsibilty and give them something to be proud of..... Give them the tools to improve on their own and IF after the tools have been given, they still see the need to rebel, or just do what they want cos they are to lazy to change, then YES prison, to teach them in a more tougher, more regimented regime..... but all along giving them the tools to change.....


    What do you think ??

    Look forward to your reply

    Happy Easter

    Debbie
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money? : LOL  VERY well put DOHHHHHHH,  I guess if we all live in a poker filled life and never have to step outside that type of bubble, then it wont affect any of us, BUT what happens when you are on the way to your bank to withdraw your major winnings and get mugged? or your banks robbed at the same time your inside, what would your  opinion be then?  ( LOL IM JUST TRYING TO Get your opinion on this question, im to stubbor to let it go with out one LOL ) so, what if we were to have our tax's reduced? what if we were to see more in our wage packet each month? what if young offenders were less and less each month/year due to this prevention ruling or rehabilitation rulings etc..... we would have less of the crimes folk are speaking of, less guns on corners etc that they speak of on here , and maybe less muggings, robberies and we could AL eventually live in a whole nicer place ..... IT would NEVER happen over night, but reduce crime with prevention, rehabilitation or education tactics, COULD make us all live in a safer world, OK OK I KNOW adults are resposible for MANY crimes too, but for the purpose of this topic I am speaking of the youth crime, the ones who are the adults of the future, The ones who will be adults when we are in our pension years..... would you prefer to live in a safer world, one that didnt have to keep building jails for young  people and over all we would feel safe in our homes..... OR do we just lock em ALL up despite their crime! GO ON..... dig deep and give me an opinion DOHHHHHHH  LOL cheers :)
    Posted by smiler271


    Im not sure this "prevention" method you speak of is gonna work - or it would have been implemented years ago surely?

    And even if it will work, it would get worse before it got better, as you said it wont happen over night, nor will it happen this year, or even this decade, i'd argue that it wouldn't change things until the next generation. You said when Im a pensioner, (if my liver lets me get that far) - things might be different. I think it will take longer than that.

    Im interested to know specific examples of things which could be done, to "prevent"....... I really don't believe the impact will be as strong as you are suggesting it could be. Maybe I'm being naive here. 

    If u just watch jeremy kyle - for  week, you are guaranteed to see cases every day of people breaking the law. 

    Must have had hundreds of cases where people can go on to national tv and openly admit they are crack heads. How's this possible? Am I right in thinking its illegal to take crack? - Y dont the police from the minute this crack head leaves the studio - put him under 24 hour surveillance - that way it's impossible for him to get hold of crack, before he and his dealer, gets arrested right?

    How can they go on tv, admit it, then not get caught afterwards? Am I being very dumb by stating the obvious?

    Hard to do with young girls who cant keep their legs closed until theyre 16 - thats illegal too right? - but they end up knocked up - bring their kid up in an unstable environment - the kid "makes the same mistake as mummy did" - and wallah - society has more nutters. Sometimes the young mummy and daddy do a good job - but thats rare IMO.

    I think anyone who gets pregnant under the age of 16 - should be forced by law to have a termination, or be locked up. (I personally thing it should be changed to 20 - sex is fine, pregnancy too young isn't_ - THATS PREVENTION FOR YA!)

    I also believe that at birth, every single kid in the world should have a test for paternity - this shud be the law too.

    Fags and Booze should be illegal to purchase until you are 21 - old enough to make an informed decision, rather than being influenced by "pier pressure" - and becoming addicted for life to something that is bad for ya!

    Anyone caught should be severely punished - what this punishment wud be I dunno - probably locked up again lol.


    Its like in football - stupid fouls such as shirt pulling in the penalty box. If referees start punishing the offenders properly, it's simple - they will stop doing it!!!! Its not rocket science!

    STRONGER PUNISHMENTS WILL LEAD TO LONG TERM PREVENTION IMO!!!


    (apologies to anyone offended by this post, my opinions are only that, and opinion, and obvioulsy there are exceptions! :)






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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited April 2010
    Kids do not create the conditions under which they live, and nor do they decide what kind of education they recieve.

     IMO--the state as a whole is to blame. Put people in disgusting conditions, and disgusting things will happen there--innit!!
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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    Sadly Young People DO commit the awful crimes I mention......Too much money is wasted on futile rehabilitation efforts (imho) Bet the re-offending figures are high......... Good money going to waste.
    Posted by emilyegg

    YES there are young people who commit terrible crimes that you have spoke of, but is their underline mental health issues there? or issues that need adressed? OR ARE THEY JUST Born with "that " streak in them?

    You say TO much on rehab,  and all wasted.... well yes some is wasted as the state seem to employ the WRONG type of workers for this issue... SO MANY people are in that type of job that see the young people as having more human rights than the actual victim THIS IS SOOOOOOO WRONG!!! How about this as an idea.....

    If we had them doing as i mentioned in my last reply to AIR..... as in building homes, workplaces etc...... but during this time, they have NO or reduced human rights,..... OMG I see so many folk screeming at me for that comment  no doubt! OOOOPS BUT as i said at the start NO P/C here just honest feelings!! LOL
    So with no p/c in mind, why cant we remove the human rights to some degree, say that they can ONLY have such luxuries as visits into the self built commuity when they have earnt them, OR only having shorter shifts at the place of work that they have built  and manage, when they have earned them...etc etc...
    ITS simialr to punishments BUT with a purpose at the begining, middle and end of it all!!!

    we would need to narrow it down i guess, such as what crime needs jail and what crime allows them the LUXURY of HARD LABOUR.....

    BUT is locking them away in a small concrete room for 23 hrs a day, with o access to any structured education, medical or theraputic treatments , no acess to social awareness structure training etc....is that any good for them? THE RE-OFFENDING figures ARE SKY HIGH   BUT is that why?

    Logging of now to go add some of these answers to my study/research work...

    I look forard to your reply if/when you get time to do so.
    Thank you for your input so far
    Its much appreciated


    Happy easter

    Debbie

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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    Kids do not create the conditions under which they live, and nor do they decide what kind of education they recieve.  IMO--the state as a whole is to blame. Put people in distgusting conditions, and distgusting things will happen there--innit!!
    Posted by oynutter

    VERY TRUE

    KIDS LEARN by seeing, learn by watching their peers doing what ever they do,m and YOUR RIGHT they do not ask for bad enviromwnts to be brought  up in If you treat em like animals they will live like theat  AS STATED IN EARLIER POST....

    The state are to blame for  A LOT of issues suffered by young people today


    Logging of now, but will answer in depthe later on today

    Have a good one

    debbie
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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    In Response to  Re: how should we spend OUR money? : Im not sure this "prevention" method you speak of is gonna work - or it would have been implemented years ago surely? And even if it will work, it would get worse before it got better, as you said it wont happen over night, nor will it happen this year, or even this decade, i'd argue that it wouldn't change things until the next generation. You said when Im a pensioner, (if my liver lets me get that far) - things might be different. I think it will take longer than that. Im interested to know specific examples of things which could be done, to "prevent"....... I really don't believe the impact will be as strong as you are suggesting it could be. Maybe I'm being naive here.  If u just watch jeremy kyle - for  week, you are guaranteed to see cases every day of people breaking the law.  Must have had hundreds of cases where people can go on to national tv and openly admit they are crack heads. How's this possible? Am I right in thinking its illegal to take crack? - Y dont the police from the minute this crack head leaves the studio - put him under 24 hour surveillance - that way it's impossible for him to get hold of crack, before he and his dealer, gets arrested right? How can they go on tv, admit it, then not get caught afterwards? Am I being very dumb by stating the obvious? Hard to do with young girls who cant keep their legs closed until theyre 16 - thats illegal too right? - but they end up knocked up - bring their kid up in an unstable environment - the kid "makes the same mistake as mummy did" - and wallah - society has more nutters. Sometimes the young mummy and daddy do a good job - but thats rare IMO. I think anyone who gets pregnant under the age of 16 - should be forced by law to have a termination, or be locked up. (I personally thing it should be changed to 20 - sex is fine, pregnancy too young isn't_ - THATS PREVENTION FOR YA!) I also believe that at birth, every single kid in the world should have a test for paternity - this shud be the law too. Fags and Booze should be illegal to purchase until you are 21 - old enough to make an informed decision, rather than being influenced by "pier pressure" - and becoming addicted for life to something that is bad for ya! Anyone caught should be severely punished - what this punishment wud be I dunno - probably locked up again lol. Its like in football - stupid fouls such as shirt pulling in the penalty box. If referees start punishing the offenders properly, it's simple - they will stop doing it!!!! Its not rocket science! STRONGER PUNISHMENTS WILL LEAD TO LONG TERM PREVENTION IMO!!! (apologies to anyone offended by this post, my opinions are only that, and opinion, and obvioulsy there are exceptions! :)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH


    YYEEEEEEAAAAHHHHH   I got you to look insode and give me your opinion.... THANK YOU ....lol

    IMO your post is a GOOD one, SO MANY good points that need answered, I will get to it when i get back this afternoon, my hubby is sat tapping his foot as we were meant to be out by noon, ooops LOL and im still sat here typing hahhaha
    BUT THANK YOU for your reply I WILL ANSWER IT IN DETAIL WHEN I GET BACK IN

    HAVE A GREAT DAY


    Kind regards.... Debbie  P.s Look after that liver of your!!!! LOL
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2010

    Haha Debbie I will say 1 thing for you - Its good to see someone enjoying their studies so much!!! - I did 4 years at uni, before finishing last summer with a 2.1 - and at times I fioud it a real hard grind, and other times, I simply hated it. Lots of it was enjoyable too though of course! - So nice to see someone so enthusiastic about it!

    CU LATER, JJ





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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money? : They are only winding you up about Blackfish3.......He is studying law as well. ;0) Good Post though.....I will give it until tea-time before a human rights supporter chips in.....to tell us that the offenders are the real victims in all of this.
    Posted by emilyegg

    LOL its the HUMAN RIGHTS that have messed it ALL up for young offenders and the chance of rehabilitations etc... so PLEASE let them come here to spout of there chatter LOL
    Im in the right mood for that today LOL

    :0)
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  • smiler271smiler271
    edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: how should we spend OUR money?:
    Haha Debbie I will say 1 thing for you - Its good to see someone enjoying their studies so much!!! - I did 4 years at uni, before finishing last summer with a 2.1 - and at times I fioud it a real hard grind, and other times, I simply hated it. Lots of it was enjoyable too though of course! - So nice to see someone so enthusiastic about it! CU LATER, JJ
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    enjoy my studies....erm.... NOT sure id used that termiology JJ, BUT I am very passionate about what I am studying though, not saying its fun 24/7 though.... Had MANY days when the email was done and ready to be sent to quit the course, BUT then I met my hubby and he has enabled me to see that its all just a game of BS baffles brins, and I need the degree to get what I want out of this life, well art of what I want anyway....

    So poker is my outlet to it all, it helps me focus SOMETIMES it stops me focusing to though LOL
    Hnse my other thread, ( my 1st ever one lol so its kinda dull in many ways LOL)

    But to be honest JJ, I am doubling up with poker and doing research for my dissertation, 
    Im at the end of my 2nd year, have 1 more left to do then i will be done for a little while before \I start my MA, in youth transitions and subcultures.... OMG WHY DO I PUNISH myself this much?? especially starting as late in life as i did...... heres hoping it will be all worth it.



    Anyway, im gonna go re-read your post again so i can give it the answer it deserves.... ( GLAD I GOT YOUR mind and thoughts to react tho, instead of just I dont know so i dont care LOL I KNEW id get a responce from ya eventually) hehehehehe

    cheers though, its been an interesting read so far


    regards

    debbie

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2010
    HA! YES IM STILL ONLINE! AND YES I AM CHECKING THIS THREAD ALL THE TIME TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE THINK!!

    I think as practical examples were used I started to understand more, I need things spelt out to me, then it gets the mind goin!
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