was he right to call?

unknown_username

regarding my reraise, it was supposed to be x3 but it didnt register me clicking it. why would be call with 910 unsuited? i understand the call on flop with gutshot but its the pre im bothered about...   wkdeye	Small blind		100.00	100.00	10417.50
Bobolink	Big blind		200.00	300.00	4622.50
	Your hole cards	K A
Avaty	Raise		600.00	900.00	4840.00
JJ180	Fold
woggy114	Fold
Scottomus0	Raise		1400.00	2300.00	1860.00
wkdeye	Fold
Bobolink	Fold
Avaty	Call		800.00	3100.00	4040.00
Flop
		10 8 6
Avaty	Check
Scottomus0	All-in		1860.00	4960.00	0.00
Avaty	Call		1860.00	6820.00	2180.00
Avaty	Show	9 10
Scottomus0	Show	K A
Turn
		Q
River
		Q
Avaty	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and 10s	6820.00		9000.00

unknown_username

dont know what happened there lol.

DaveOwlX

From that hand only, he looks like a fairly loose player. The initial raise I can understand but calling your re-raise suggests exactly that with 9/10 off suit. Calling your all-in too on that flop is almost a gamble even with top pair so I just think you were a little unlucky.

You still only had Ace high though on the flop and needed some help to get any kind of flush or straight after that point. I'd have to say though, you both actually gambled a bit there as you had nothing even if it was 'good nothing'

Batkin88

I think that was me ! lol Is AVATY the name?
Was this the Main event BH???

Any way the call to re raise is loose but can be made with 9 10 easily as its a hand he/she/me can take straight out of your range.
When the flop comes down its not gr8 but its good enough for the villain and the flop all in should be a check all in imo as your all in first looks like AK
He has the right to call if he puts u on AK pre

Eagle26

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

I think that was me ! lol Is AVATY the name? Was this the Main event BH??? Any way the call to re raise is loose but can be made with 9 10 easily as its a hand he/she/me can take straight out of your range. When the flop comes down its not gr8 but its good enough for the villain and the flop all in should be a check all in imo as your all in first looks like AK He has the right to call if he puts u on AK pre
Posted by Batkin88

how can you soul read someone for ak pre from 1 bet?

unknown_username

after my re-raise i expected him to fold with his cards, after that i knew i was behind but shoved hoping to get lucky. the call on flop as i said, id prob make too but no way would i call pre with 9 10

YOUNG_GUN

go all in pre if u dont want him to call ffs, 800 to win 3100 with connectors not the worse call in the world tbh

You were shortstack why not just shove pre and if he makes the call then question it!!! your own fault rather then attempt to 3 bet you might aswell go all in with your stack and cards

i'd love people to call my raises with 9 10 everyday of the week, on the flop why go all in if you missed? A high unlikely to knock anyone of any hands played so bad this hand imo

pryce6

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

go all in pre if u dont want him to call ffs, 800 to win 3100 with connectors not the worse call in the world tbh You were shortstack why not just shove pre and if he makes the call then question it!!! your own fault rather then attempt to 3 bet you might aswell go all in with your stack and cards i'd love people to call my raises with 9 10 everyday of the week, on the flop why go all in if you missed? A high unlikely to knock anyone of any hands played so bad this hand imo
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

tbh this whole post should be deleted and is typical sky fish thought process

this call is terrible, most of the time you miss and lose chips, the rest of the time you make a pair or draw and stack off to a better hand. he hit top pair and got lucky our man has AK here. 

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

In Response to Re: was he right to call? : tbh this whole post should be deleted and is typical sky fish thought process this call is terrible, most of the time you miss and lose chips, the rest of the time you make a pair or draw and stack off to a better hand. he hit top pair and got lucky our man has AK here. 
Posted by pryce6

look its not great play but cant understand why op did not shove. at least calling with 10 9 alot of people wont put you on it and  goes under the radar personally i wouldnt play it that way but have seen alot worse eg. all in vs aa with 69 against debs thats ridiculous this isnt good but not the worst! neither played hand well on this one imo

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

In Response to Re: was he right to call? : look its not great play but cant understand why op did not shove. at least calling with 10 9 alot of people wont put you on it and  goes under the radar personally i wouldnt play it that way but have seen alot worse eg. all in vs aa with 69 against debs thats ridiculous this isnt good but not the worst! neither played hand well on this one imo
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

Did you have to remind me? ;o) xxx

Batkin88

In response to eagle26 .... You can easily put him on AK if you have sat at that table for a couple of orbits and he re raises pre then shoves straight in on the flop. (Thats why i would check shove flop)

In response to pryce.... The call from 9 10 villain is not a bad call as he could be repping any two and also hit a very wide range. Like YG says 800 to win 3100 in a BH is very nice indeed with the chance of a bounty.

In response to everyone on the forum who makes out they only play the premium hands................................Ok then.

For the record if i was sitting there with 9/10 and you shoved rather than re raised i would still call you in any tournament apart from a deepstack with the chip stacks as they are.

ACESOVER8s

already invested 600 and only being charged 800 more, got Almost 5k before calling the furhter 800.

The 3 bet pre starts to define your range if the villain has paid attention to previous hands. Without their observations on your play prior to this hand it's impossible to say but if you have built a pattern of 3 betting AK, AQ, etc pre then maybe they have defined you to that as a range. The check to you seems to be a inducment to get you to bluff as they have no problem in calling their stack off once you push. This suggests they put you on exactly what you had and not an overpair.,,,,,Or they may be new to the game and figure any 2 have a chance and then when they hit top pair their not going away.

You pays your money you takes your chance lol but i don't think their calling for the gutshot, i beleive they think the ten is ahead and your drawing to overcards

Batkin88

Acesover8's: Nail on the head

pryce6

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

In response to eagle26 .... You can easily put him on AK if you have sat at that table for a couple of orbits and he re raises pre then shoves straight in on the flop. (Thats why i would check shove flop) In response to pryce.... The call from 9 10 villain is not a bad call as he could be repping any two and also hit a very wide range. Like YG says 800 to win 3100 in a BH is very nice indeed with the chance of a bounty. In response to everyone on the forum who makes out they only play the premium hands................................Ok then. For the record if i was sitting there with 9/10 and you shoved rather than re raised i would still call you in any tournament apart from a deepstack with the chip stacks as they are.
Posted by Batkin88

Are you joking?

When someone 3 bets to 1400 with 1700 behind they are not repping 'any 2'

Batkin88

no i said the viallain could be repping any 2 by calling not the hero.
If u want to play ABC poker its a fold but i dont like ABC poker so its a call from me

pryce6

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

no i said the viallain could be repping any 2 by calling not the hero. If u want to play ABC poker its a fold but i dont like ABC poker so its a call from me
Posted by Batkin88

Ok you need to phrase your posts better.

You should not be posting in the poker clinic if you are going to give bad advice to players wanting to improve.

It's not about playing ABC poker it's just common sense. If someone 3 bets half his stack he is committed to the hand and his range imo is TT-AA and AQ/AK.

So by calling with 9 10 you are mostly up against hands that completely crush you, or AK if you're lucky.

So you call and the flop is T 8 X, you lose most of the time and the rare chance you are ahead our man still has overcards to hit.

You call and the flop is T K X and you lose most of the time.

You call and the flop is J 8 X and you lose most of the time.

Or you call and completely brick (2/3 of the time) and you lose 1400 chips.

I honestly can't see how you can say this is a good call.

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

In Response to Re: was he right to call? : Ok you need to phrase your posts better. You should not be posting in the poker clinic if you are going to give bad advice to players wanting to improve. It's not about playing ABC poker it's just common sense. If someone 3 bets half his stack he is committed to the hand and his range imo is TT-AA and AQ/AK. So by calling with 9 10 you are mostly up against hands that completely crush you, or AK if you're lucky. So you call and the flop is T 8 X, you lose most of the time and the rare chance you are ahead our man still has overcards to hit. You call and the flop is T K X and you lose most of the time. You call and the flop is J 8 X and you lose most of the time. I honestly can't see how you can say this is a good call.
Posted by pryce6

I see your points but you are making no allowance for previous history, If this player has shown how he would play a made pair and how he would play AK AQ etc then it's very possible to go with high ace as the range. I agree the pre flop bet shows he's commited to the pot but once top pair is hit then it's a call as you can reasonably assume they are drawing to 2 overs, the re-range is only 800 more which is what keeps the villain here

Batkin88

Your not all there in the head mate. So whatever u say is right yeah? It is ABC poker i could be re raising that hand like the villain does with 2 3 off suit.
I am a reg on here and ill continue to post on clinic as its good for all players to hear all opinions.
Its not like i have nothing to back my poker ability up either so maybe u should just stick ur opinion on the post and not pick at others.
Lets look at it from a diff perspective say for example u have been there for 3 orbits and this players has re raised pre 3 times are u folding here?? If he is pot commited then the 800 into the pot is a good risk to take as if u hit he is shoving whatever!!! so your ten stands.
If your too narrow minded to believe that everytime someone re raises preflop with AA KK or QQ then maybe its u who shouldnt be posting on here.
Also if my opponent does have aces i would like to play against him with 10 9 tbh.
By the way to scottomus i am not saying my opinion is right i am merely pointing out why i think the villain can make this move and is entitled to.

pryce6

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

Your not all there in the head mate. So whatever u say is right yeah? It is ABC poker i could be re raising that hand like the villain does with 2 3 off suit. I am a reg on here and ill continue to post on clinic as its good for all players to hear all opinions. Its not like i have nothing to back my poker ability up either so maybe u should just stick ur opinion on the post and not pick at others. Lets look at it from a diff perspective say for example u have been there for 3 orbits and this players has re raised pre 3 times are u folding here?? If he is pot commited then the 800 into the pot is a good risk to take as if u hit he is shoving whatever!!! so your ten stands. If your too narrow minded to believe that everytime someone re raises preflop with AA KK or QQ then maybe its u who shouldnt be posting on here. Also if my opponent does have aces i would like to play against him with 10 9 tbh. By the way to scottomus i am not saying my opinion is right i am merely pointing out why i think the villain can make this move and is entitled to.
Posted by Batkin88

Ok, please just re-read what I have bolded because it's just awful. I will reply in order..

Why would you EVER re-raise half your stack with 2 3o when you know fish on sky call.

Almost every post I've seen from you has been nonsense.

The poster has not stated any reads so why are you even mentioning this? A lot of hands in sky tournaments will be played readless - when someone 3 bets half their stack you have to give them credit for pretty big hand, they are committed and not folding. They are more likely to have a wider range when shoving, 3 betting here is just a huge hand 99% of the time, it's like they are begging you to call.

Read back to my last post - the 800 to call is going to go down the drain 2/3 of the time and the rest you are going to lose another 1800 against a better hand. Very rarely will you call and win. Tournament play is about not losing chips in these situations, not throwing them away in the hope to get lucky.

If I am in a hand with a good player who I have reads on and I know makes these moves with a wider range then I would be more inclined to call - but against a sky fish I fold T9 here every day of the week, in fact I don't even raise but that's beside the point.

If you're opponent has Aces you would like to play against him with T9o? Do you know the percentages?

Honestly don't bother replying, there's no point. I just hope this makes sense to you.

YOUNG_GUN

pryce u need to tone it down, batkin is a member on sky poker so gives her every right to post here. NOONES opinion is 100% correct and we can all learn from each other, you really have posted some rubbish imo but im not going to get into it as your entitled to your opinion i prefer batkins to urs simple

first you highlight mine & try pick holes personally i think your advice is not great but its your way and some people will agree some dis-agree thats the beauty of the game

grow up

pryce6

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

pryce u need to tone it down, batkin is a member on sky poker so gives her every right to post here. NOONES opinion is 100% correct and we can all learn from each other, you really have posted some rubbish imo but im not going to get into it as your entitled to your opinion i prefer batkins to urs simple first you highlight mine & try pick holes personally i think your advice is not great but its your way and some people will agree some dis-agree thats the beauty of the game grow up
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

wow.

batkin is advising a poor call - if people are coming on here to learn then reading her posts is not going to do them any favours. 

If you think my opinions are rubbish then apply your own theory and lose your chips the majority of the time - i'm not fussed, it's your money.

The beauty of the game is there is always people like you or batkin that are going to donk their chips off the majority of the time here. If you are in the poker clinic to learn then read what i've said and take it in, don't have a go at someone and tell them to grow up when they are trying to help you.

Eagle26

raising utg with raggy cards & callin 3 bets against a villian who is commited to the hand is not a 'move' or a good play. everything pryce is saying is correct

donkeyplop

OOH friday night fight night is on...................................

Good job im going out to see saw 3d!

Batkin you sure are a feisty one (for a girl)

Batkin88

bit childish pryce.
If you want to earn money listen to u???? Poker is my job!!!
I didnt start an argument i am voicing my opinion ur childish picking at peoples posts.
How many BH'S u play??? Do u understand value of your chips is less in a bounty!!
Please i am begging u come and sit at my table some time maybe u will learn to play your opponents cards aswell as ur own.

Sky fish lol ... insult the players on sky well done earn some friends with that statement clever litlle man.

unknown_username

come on guys no need, leave it as it is... any other time id be happy with them calling with 9 10 lol

Batkin88

i was just offering my opinion sir. Then i get ravaged (in the wrong way) by these two. On both forum threads

By the way thanks YG  

Eagle26

In Response to Re: was he right to call?:

i was just offering my opinion sir. Then i get ravaged (in the wrong way) by these two. On both forum threads By the way thanks YG  
Posted by Batkin88

check ur inbox

LOL_RAISE

the point of the clinic is to post strategy and advice to help improves other players games. pryce6 has seen flaws in some peoples thought processes and has pointed out where he thinks they are going wrong and for what reasons, this subforum isnt for making friends.

fwiw shove pre all the time, his call is bad but i wouldnt expect many people on sky to fold preflop getting these good odds.

i agree w/ pryce on mostly everything he has said

Talon

  From a purely mathematical point of view this seems like a perfectly good call preflop.If you spend all your time automatically believing that a 3-bet is a massive pocket pair then you will just spew off chips.

 The call was for 800 into a pot of 2300 which is giving very nearly 3 to 1.Which means that you need to win 1 time in 4 to make this the right call and then of course come the implied odds which make it even tastier than that.

 Against possible ranges T9 is

  vs 2 overs   33% to win
  vs dominating hand (eg AT)   30% to win
  vs underpair     45% to win.
  vs over pair 10% to win.


  As you can see only if you put your opponent on an over pair do you not have the right odds against any other possible holding you are getting better than the required odds.

Batkin88

talon thankyou for explaining my point in a better way

Lol raise there are no flaws in my play either!! Technically i would of won the pot so there you go.

You all must have the same game!1 there is no right or wrong way but the call in my opinion is right.
And you point out the clinic is to help others... so should we all have the same opinion????
My way or his way either way i can understand i just prefer my move in the MTT BH format end of simple.

Batkin88

eagle cheers for inbox message