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I could not agree with you more Pryce. you were right IMO to say this is a fish thinking process in your first reply. I played a hand at 50/1 cash tonight that was very similar to the one posted.
Cut off raises to £4 with 57 off, I make it £12 with AK on the button he calls oop with only £34 behind, flop 456, he checks I put him all in, he calls, I hit K on the river. With £25 in the pot and with him having only £34 behind I care little what he holds, if he check folds great, if he has something i've likely got two overs to hit even on this flop.
As you said, the range he should be putting me on is TT-AA, AK/AQ and 57o is not a hand you want v this range oop in a 3 bet pot with not much more than a pot size bet behind. The flop was about as good as he could expect, I didn't hold an over pair and he still got stacked for £46, do these guys hate money? Yes I could be raising here with any two but playing weak holdings oop and calling 3 bets is just burning money unless you are one hell of a player, however a good player wont be doing this with so little money behind? What is villain doing two thirds of the time when they miss the flop, check calling the shove with 7 high or folding after putting 25% of their stack in pf, neither are great options are they.
I have no idea why anyone would disagree with you when you make so much sense with your post.
Same Aces spot on well played sir
I agree from the position of the caller i wouldn't have bothered raising 9 10, i would of just folded. However i can see why this pot occured once our villain has raised and the price to see the flop isn't that mathmatically bad, that doesn't mean i think it's great play. So why do you bother what?
Taking into account Bounty Hunter mentality (a format i dislike as it's a very loose and fast game) you will see a ton of these calls in every tourny so be prepared for it. As it's the OP looking for comment (of which he now has plenty) then the only "Advice" to be given is shove, your hands not made and you want to pick up the pot.
fwiw i think most of what pryce says is theoretically right, however saying 'what i said is right, you shouldn't play it any other way' is nonsense, people can play any situation how they want.
For example i read that Browndogg shoved with a flopped full house or summin at Blackpool and it worked a treat, now thats not ABC.
Bounty hunter, tourny play, no wonder the term donkument gets used.
Lets assume the 3 better has two cards, he's not even looked at them and just straight out 3 bet you, you call oop with 9T suited and you miss the flop which you will do 2/3 of the time, now what, you check, he shoves and he's still not looked at his cards, you? Your holding T high, its not great against any two cards is it. So you've just lost 1,400 chips with 9To if you finally realise your mistakes and fold. You had 5,000 now you have 3,600 great play.
As played the thought process if there was one went something like
I'm bored I'll raise 9To UTG
*@** I got 3 bet, I hope he has AK, yea he'll have AK, I could flop a 9 or a T, I'll call it could even come 9T9, last week I saw a 678 flop, yea I'll call
On the flop, wow I hit, I'll check and see what he does, he's shoved, I really hope he has AK, yea he's got AK – that's the problem he's hit and he still has no idea if he's good or not, he's just gambling.
At its simplest point poker is a range war yours verses his, if you get in pots with a weaker range v your opponents range you will lose more often than not and if you get in 3 bet pots oop with a weak range v a stronger range thats pot committed you will lose even more often. Its not like you can outplay him, he's 3 bet so the stacks are shallower, he's 3 bet so he can get his stack in quicker post flop, in short he's 3 bet for a reason, the reason.......he has a big hand, bigger than 9To.
If people are 3 betting here with rubbish they are plainly stupid, 9T raised UTG so what's his (likely) range, yet he still got 3 bet and the 3 better looks committed to the pot, he's not folding on many flops. Why didn't the original raiser shove? Because he thought he was almost certainly behind and hoped to get lucky by calling, the fact he is very likely to be up against a premium pair appears irrelevant because its a bounty hunter and people have seen players 3 bet with rubbish, do most of us really think the OP has rubbish here?
Playing to get lucky is bad, I play only one tourney a week and that's live, but I see plenty of this call and hope garbage, implied odds, its only half my stack are excuses to luck your way to a tourney win because you lack the skills to play properly. If you put enough hands into pokerstove you can justify calling the 3 bet, but in all likelihood you need to hit a 9 or T to be ahead of AK/AQ and then dodge the turn and river, or two pair/straight to be ahead of JJ-AA, how likely is that?
The worst part of this thread is that this is a poker clinic, I thank the poker gods its not a health clinic.
Just re-read the thread, batkin said many times she would call and be happy about it. Don't backtrack please.
We know he should shove, that is obvious. Stop embarrassing yourself.
So going back to the original question................................................
Was he right to call?
Thanks for remembering im a woman tho its annoying everyone referring to me as a he/him/it!!
I think we should end this post now it just isnt going anywhere lets agree to disagree!!! (Although im right)
as said b4 gl at the tables and i promise i will fold to all reraises pre to u in any MTT unless i have 10 9.
....,,,,, offsuit
Why shove AK over the initial raise, you are folding all the hands you dominate (well you should be) and getting called by only those that are crushing you AA/KK plus QQ-TT that are ahead. I think i've covered why the call with 9To was wrong already.
As played I'm happy with OP's play and the raise, it could have been slightly more but he just got out flopped, run it 10 times and he's winning. The fact the original raiser was too dumb to realise the 3 better was committed is not his fault and i'll take a flop all day long 9To v AK for 50% of my stack i'm a 63% favourite thats more than enough for me in this case.
What do people benefit/learn from reading batkin/young guns awful posts on this thread? Anyone wanting to learn and improve their game shouldn't read someone advertising poor play.
Also if batkin/young gun listened to advice then maybe their own games would improve - obviously didn't work this time but never mind.
Fwiw this has been the most entertaining thread on the poker clinic by a mile.