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Downhill Spiral

edited December 2010 in Poker Chat
Is it my imagination or are there more and more 'fish' players joining sky poker?!?!!!...
I have been off site for about 3 week due to a house move and waiting for internet connection. I was finally reconnected to the internet on the 24th December. On boxing day I decided to have a couple of games and play a few tournaments. I didn't recognise many of the names entering for the tournies and it seems like there are a lot of new players on site.. (no objection to that...the more the merrier). As the tounaments progressed, and not knowing players on the tables.. I tightened up my game and did a lot of 'watching'. I could not believe some of the calls being made... (this is at £11 - £22+ buy-in level where you expect a decent standard of play). In one game my 5xBB raise under the gun with AA  (blinds @ 50/100) was called by 7/3 suited.... the player wasn't even a short stack.. but sat just above average stack... I lost the hand to trip 7's...  with on the river.. best part of my stack gone and he doubled up..this theme has continued for the last few days..Okay I hear you all say....they lose in the long run, but the fact is.. why do they call with such rediculous starting hands in the first place... and you end up losing to inferior players...it's so frustrating... I am at a point where I am thinking of quitting 'Sky Poker'... the standard of play has dropped dramatically since joining last june... it is turning into a luckers site..no matter how you play.... ABC poker, tight aggressive, loose aggressive, passive..doesnt' work with these guys. They'd call a taxi if they thought it win them as hand....
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Comments

  • edited December 2010
    these are probably people who have satelited in and are still new to poker, long may they continue to come here rubbish as makes it easier........ in the long run ofc

    welcome back
  • edited December 2010
    With the site growing, theres gonna be more fish, more sharks, and more average Joe's !

    Probably still the same %age of each though, although I wish all these new nl30 nits wud koff back where they came from.
  • edited December 2010
    what you tryin to say dohhhh!!!!
  • edited December 2010
    sorry mate i didnt see the word nit, so i dont fall in that catergory, i just saw new!! my apologies x
  • edited December 2010
    worse players about

    i quit

    doesn't make sense.

    OH I CAN ONLY WIN AGAINST BETTER PLAYERS.

    if u have that kind of mentality, then you sir are a donk.  a stark raving donk.
  • edited December 2010
    Think about the logic of your post.
    Now apply logic to playing poker.
    Maybe you win now?
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    worse players about i quit doesn't make sense. OH I CAN ONLY WIN AGAINST BETTER PLAYERS. if u have that kind of mentality, then you sir are a donk.  a stark raving donk.
    Posted by scotty77

    This post is win.

    For the use of uncapitalised 'i'  + all caps thinking out loud. + repetition of word donk combined with 'stark raving'.


    loool
  • edited December 2010
    welcome back larry, i know what you mean i`v started simalar thread i area 51 under YET AGAIN ? EVEN GOT TIKAY REPLYING AS WELL AS A FEW MORE, TAKE A BUTCHERS, YOUR NOT THE ONLY ONE
  • edited December 2010
    They'd call a taxi if they thought it win them as hand....

    Love this ;o)

    Bear in mind that at Christmas laods of people get drunk and play for fun...it'll settle down again in the new year...always does!

    xx

  • edited December 2010

    More bad players on here is a good thing.

    They make me look better...

  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    More bad players on here is a good thing. They make me look better...
    Posted by GREGHOGG
     NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU LOOK GREGG />>>>LOL
  • edited December 2010
    Another post from the stark raving looney club 

    You have based you ur logic on 2 days and a few touneys also over the christmas period where most ppl will be drinking more etc like myself and not be concentrating as much as i would normally

    On your conclusion that the majority of Sky players are donks/make donk bets  then you should be happy and should then win over time
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    welcome back larry, i know what you mean i`v started simalar thread i area 51 under YET AGAIN ? EVEN GOT TIKAY REPLYING AS WELL AS A FEW MORE, TAKE A BUTCHERS, YOUR NOT THE ONLY ONE
    Posted by spornybol
    Hi Sporny.... read your post and the replies... This subject seems to be a real bone of contention for a lot of players... and it is not just about bad beats or badly  (slow played pocket AA's etc ) played hands by the player with the best starting hand. It is about the frequency of sub standard play from 'donks' making donk calls, winning and taking the chips... whether it cash or tournie format. My theory on this is as follows.... (so this will probably end up in area 51 as well).....
    To keep new players interested and on line ... get them hooked etc etc etc.... their win ratio is much higher even though their play is sub-standard.. I beleive it all part of the programing as this also happens on a lot of other sites....This ensures new players get their bonuses...and that to their ''marvelous play  and WINNINGS''and you have another customer.... I made nearly £800 profit my first 6 weeks on this site.. improved my game..and not won much ,if at all, since..yet my play is a lot tighter and I work out the probabilties of particular hands and opponents hands, and then whether to check, call, raise or fold..So I am going to but my theory to the test by asking the question....


    Did you at least double your original bank your first few weeks on this site?

    YES                                          NO
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Hi Sporny.... read your post and the replies... This subject seems to be a real bone of contention for a lot of players... and it is not just about bad beats or badly  (slow played pocket AA's etc ) played hands by the player with the best starting hand. It is about the frequency of sub standard play from 'donks' making donk calls, winning and taking the chips... whether it cash or tournie format. My theory on this is as follows.... (so this will probably end up in area 51 as well)..... To keep new players interested and on line ... get them hooked etc etc etc.... their win ratio is much higher even though their play is sub-standard.. I beleive it all part of the programing as this also happens on a lot of other sites....This ensures new players get their bonuses...and that to their ''marvelous play  and WINNINGS ''and you have another customer.... I made nearly £800 profit my first 6 weeks on this site.. improved my game..and not won much ,if at all, since..yet my play is a lot tighter and I work out the probabilties of particular hands and opponents hands, and then whether to check, call, raise or fold..So I am going to but my theory to the test by asking the question.... Did you at least double your original bank your first few weeks on this site? YES                                          NO
    Posted by larry1959

    POTY
  • edited December 2010
    Yep i did in fact far more than double when i 1st started AND i new next to nothing about all of the BASIC rules of poker ;o)
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : POTY
    Posted by tikay1
    Excellent response Tikay.... glad you are keeping an eye on the procedings... I do think you are a great ambassador for the game and for sky poker... Theories will always cause controvacy and isn't the art of debate what makes us individuals?.... lol
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Excellent response Tikay.... glad you are keeping an eye on the procedings... I do think you are a great ambassador for the game and for sky poker... Theories will always cause controvacy and isn't the art of debate what makes us individuals?.... lol
    Posted by larry1959
    Thank you Larry. For the avoidance of doubt, "POTY" stands for "Post Of The Year".

    I spend half my time reading about how dreadfully bad Sky Poker's software is, & the other half reading how clever it is, by being able (or even having the motive) to somehow programme a special river card to favour certain players.

    Clever stuff, this Sky Poker software.

    PS - thank you for your kind comments.
     
  • edited December 2010
    I don't know when people's ability to comprehend irony died but it was a sad day.
  • edited December 2010
    area 51 with the rest of the doom mongers and wrist slashers
  • edited December 2010
    Everyone can say what they want and when they want as long as it is not offensive,as for the theories for and against any kind of skullduggery with the software? i think that there IS many many certain coincidences that occur at specific stages of play that makes MAXALLYS thread in AREA51 a pretty good read because of these certain coincidences that many many many of us players keep on noticing ;o) xxx
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    Everyone can say what they want and when they want as long as it is not offensive,as for the theories for and against any kind of skullduggery with the software? i think that there IS many many certain coincidences that occur at specific stages of play that makes MAXALLYS thread in AREA51 a pretty good read because of these certain coincidences that many many many of us players keep on noticing ;o) xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67

    You certainly seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of irony.
  • edited December 2010
    In this season of good will to all men, I have been trying not to respond to several posts on this thread and other threads.
    However, I feel that I need to reply because some of you appear to be suffering from some form of mass delusion.

    There are 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 different possible results when you shuffle a pack of cards.

    The Sky Poker RNG generates one of these numbers each time that a hand of poker is played and "selects" the appropriate deck. It then "deals" this deck starting from the player seated to the left of the dealer. This means that the cards that you are dealt are randomised, not only by the selected deck but also your position at the table and the number of people sat at the table.

    The RNG does not "think" about poker hands, i.e. it does not generate action hands or hands where the river always changes the outcome of the hand or hands where the bigger stack always wins. Neither does the RNG think about balancing the percentages of different types of hands. It just picks a random number every time that a hand is dealt, i.e. each hand is an independent event.
    The RNG merely produces a random number which happens to represent a sequence of cards to be dealt. This number is determined before a card is dealt or any action takes place at the table. The RNG has no concept of poker. It is a Random Number Generator - it might just as well be generating the numbers for the National Lottery draws or for Premium Bonds draws.


    To suggest otherwise implies that the people that run this site are corrupt and/or incompetent.

    Why should I care what you post? Well, a further implication from your posts is that anyone else that continues to play here is either corrupt and/or stupid. I do not consider myself to be either of these things. Also, the more easily influenced amongst you appear to be willing to jump on any bandwagon without being able to give the topic any rational thought yourself.


    If anyone is going to reply to this post, I'd appreciate it if you would think carefully before doing so.


  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In this season of good will to all men, I have been trying not to respond to several posts on this thread and other threads. However, I feel that I need to reply because some of you appear to be suffering from some form of mass delusion. There are 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 different possible results when you shuffle a pack of cards. The Sky Poker RNG generates one of these numbers each time that a hand of poker is played and "selects" the appropriate deck. It then "deals" this deck starting from the player seated to the left of the dealer. This means that the cards that you are dealt are randomised, not only by the selected deck but also your position at the table and the number of people sat at the table. The RNG does not "think" about poker hands, i.e. it does not generate action hands or hands where the river always changes the outcome of the hand or hands where the bigger stack always wins. Neither does the RNG think about balancing the percentages of different types of hands. It just picks a random number every time that a hand is dealt , i.e. each hand is an independent event. The RNG merely produces a random number which happens to represent a sequence of cards to be dealt. This number is determined before a card is dealt or any action takes place at the table. The RNG has no concept of poker . It is a R andom N umber G enerator - it might just as well be generating the numbers for the National Lottery draws or for Premium Bonds draws. To suggest otherwise implies that the people that run this site are corrupt and/or incompetent. Why should I care what you post? Well, a further implication from your posts is that anyone else that continues to play here is either corrupt and/or stupid. I do not consider myself to be either of these things. Also, the more easily influenced amongst you appear to be willing to jump on any bandwagon without being able to give the topic any rational thought yourself. If anyone is going to reply to this post, I'd appreciate it if you would think carefully before doing so.
    Posted by MereNovice

    Great Post.

    With that many possible outcomes, how the heck would you go about building a rng??????

  • edited December 2010
    This is an argument that can't be won. 

    I wasn't going to get involved, I really wasn't, but having just played and forecast my own demise in the Open, to the very card - it was a bet with some friends who are here watching the game. I have to say that playing any tournament on here is a bit like plaiting sawdust - difficult in the extreme. 

    The argument over site integrity is pointless simply because it can't be proven, would never be admitted, and is after all ridiculous to think that anything could be amiss with the randomness of the cards. Unfortunately things happen in poker that cast doubts in peoples minds and lead to all kinds of rash statements regarding the legitimacy of the site. As humans we all have a tendency to recognise patterns (it's a basic function of the ''fight/flight'' part of our brain) and so we perceive things which happen repetitively as being non-random. This is of course incorrect, things will repeat occasionally, if they didn't it wouldn't be random. We also have selective memory and remember the highs and lows and the vast majority in the middle is forgotten. 

    All this leads to a sense of the outcome being somehow manipulated but with a clear mind these things can be recognised for what they really are. However, when ''these things'' happen with such regularity, it becomes very difficult to rationalise what is happening. I have been observing play recently and it is uncanny how many times the underdog wins the hand. I have no statistics to show this, just a few years experience of playing poker that are telling me that all is not as it should be. A lot of players seem to be either seeing or suffering from this anomaly but most will not say so publicly because they will be pounced upon. 

    Explaining what appears to be anomalous is very difficult to put into words, as I said earlier it can't be proven but that does not stop it being perceived. Most players on here know I'm not a losing player, in fact I have a healthy profit for 2010, and so this isn't a rant or a ''lets blame the software'' piece of trolling. I love Sky poker, I love the community and joining here 18 months ago is the best  move I've made in my poker history. So I won't be leaving but I won't be playing much either for the foreseeable future simply because I don't like what I'm seeing and encountering at the tables. 

    Finally, the exit hand from the Open. Well I'm sat with some friends who have turned up out of the blue. I mentioned that I had a game to play but that it wouldn't take long. So a few of us went into the dining room and we chatted as I played. I made a little progress initially and then I'm on the button. I get pocket 5's. I said I'm going to limp with this and just watch what happens. I limp, SB folds and BB calls. Flop comes 44x and I said to those watching ''he has a 4 and I'm going out of the tourney here. Sure enough he had the 4 .......... now what a coincidence, but then I'm probably just seeing those patterns again. 

  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Great Post. With that many possible outcomes, how the heck would you go about building a rng??????
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    My post got sabotaged by the forum software. :-))) There should be another 9 zeroes on the end of that number.

    I don't know how Sky Poker's RNG was built but generally, to create a number that big, you'd need to combine numbers generated from several random events.
  • edited December 2010
    great post Vince.
  • edited December 2010
    I looked into the question of RNG's a few years ago and as I remember it there is no way to produce a truly random selection from a machine. It may have changed in the last few years but it was generally known that a random factor has to be built into the works and that most sites used ''the clock'' in order to trigger the deal. As I have always understood it a Random Number Generator isn't truly random because apparently it's not possible.


    btw: I've got my tin hat on so feel free to fire away Vince :o)
  • edited December 2010

    The details of how the Independent Regulator works & what they protect players against is HERE
      
  • edited December 2010
    NOT A MOAN OR WHINING BUT THIS HAS BEEN HAPPEN LATELY - WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY EARLY STAGES OFF DEEPY SO RAISERS AND RERAISERS THAT`S WHY FLAT CALL, STILL WOULD CALL BUT HOW CAN THEY DO HIT AGAIN ??
    DUNONRIVER Small blind   15.00 15.00 4873.33
    l Big blind   30.00 45.00 2750.00
      Your hole cards
    • 5
    • 5
         
    MADMOO Fold        
    fisi28 Fold        
    spornybol Call   30.00 75.00 5253.34
    cmyles Call   30.00 105.00 4868.33
    DUNONRIVER Call   15.00 120.00 4858.33
    l Check        
    Flop
       
    • 6
    • J
    • 5
         
    DUNONRIVER Bet   60.00 180.00 4798.33
    l Call   60.00 240.00 2690.00
    spornybol Raise   285.00 525.00 4968.34
    cmyles Fold        
    DUNONRIVER Fold        
    l All-in   2690.00 3215.00 0.00
    spornybol Call   2465.00 5680.00 2503.34
    l Show
    • 7
    • 4
         
    spornybol Show
    • 5
    • 5
         
    Turn
       
    • 4
         
    River
       
    • 3
         
    l Win Straight to the 7 5680.00   5680.00
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    I looked into the question of RNG's a few years ago and as I remember it there is no way to produce a truly random selection from a machine. It may have changed in the last few years but it was generally known that a random factor has to be built into the works and that most sites used ''the clock'' in order to trigger the deal. As I have always understood it a Random Number Generator isn't truly random because apparently it's not possible. btw: I've got my tin hat on so feel free to fire away Vince :o)
    Posted by elsadog
    The timing of a random event is often used to generate a random number. Since it is impossible to predict when this event will occur and the possibilty of all eventualities are equal, it is truly random.
    However, a timing from a clock on its own is not sufficient to provide a random number as large as the one required for a poker RNG. That is why several random events are combined.
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